Hauppuage HD PVR versus R5000-HD Mod.

[btrcp2000]

Okay, I've just about talked myself into r5000 plus DishHD. I was holding off until the regional sports networks were added to that package (now I can watch the Reds suck in HD!!!). I was told by one CSR that it is now available, but it costs an $5 and you get "all of them", (apparently I will be able to watch the Indians suck in HD too). I will be calling again to see if I get the same answer. At the end of the day, I should have about 20 more HD channels and my overall monthly cost will only go up about $15 because I will keep cable for a while. If sage ever crashes and I am away, I want the family to be able to flip on a tv old school style until I can get it fixed.

Is there any benefit to getting a pre-modded box from nextcom? I am fuzzy on whether you actually own these things or lease them, and what unforeseen issues that causes? I guess if I buy a pre-mod, and it dies, I am back at square one?

[apt1506]

Originally Posted by Slipshod

All of Dish's SD is MPEG2.

not for too long though... didn't they confirm switching to an all-mpeg4 transmission by the end of the year?

[stanger89]

They're transitioning all HD to MPEG-4 currently, I haven't heard that they're moving all SD as well. Though there are rumours that there will be an "eastern arc" and that it will be all MPEG-4, SD and HD.

[Slipshod]

Originally Posted by btrcp2000

Is there any benefit to getting a pre-modded box from nextcom? I am fuzzy on whether you actually own these things or lease them, and what unforeseen issues that causes? I guess if I buy a pre-mod, and it dies, I am back at square one?

It all depends on how you feel about violating your Terms of Service/contract:

If you lease your receivers from Dish Networks you would be violating the terms of your lease if you had the mod added. They won't know you violated the terms until something goes wrong with the unit and you want a warranty replacement, or you end the lease and return it. Either way you'll need to have the mod removed (for your use in another unit) and you're potentially liable for the cost of the unit since you violated the lease terms.

The main benefit to the pre-modded box is convenience - you don't have to wait, ship things back and forth, etc. It's more expensive but easier.

I opted to buy pre-built units from Nextcom. I understand that lots of people just mod leased units.

As far as monthly fees go there is not really a difference. Owned boxes pay a $7 network access fee for each box past the first, Leased boxes pay a $7 lease fee and the first one is free.

The HD-PVR is still a very good option with Dish's HD-only package, as long as the 5.1 audio is going to get fixed. It also neatly avoids any kind of leasing issues. I think of the HD-PVR as being more practical and affordable, and the R5000 being the technically superior but more expensive option.

Regards,
Slipshod

[MarkV]

I own a R5000 HD that was put in a DirecTV Hughes E86 unit. With DirecTV, I don't see how anyone is recommending the R5000 anymore. There's no option for MPEG4 recording.

I'd love to switch to Dish with the R5000, but I have quite a bit of DirecTV hardware (HD-DVR with 2TB external disk), probably still in a contract, etc. For me, the HD-PVR might be a nice answer to my mpeg4 recording issues.

Mark

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by MarkV

I own a R5000 HD that was put in a DirecTV Hughes E86 unit. With DirecTV, I don't see how anyone is recommending the R5000 anymore. There's no option for MPEG4 recording.

Mark

I don't think anyone has been recommending the R5000 mod for DirecTV....unless I missed it? I'm pretty sure the only recommendation for R5000 is Dish at this point....

[MarkV]

Didn't mean to imply anyone was. Just pointing out that DirecTV looks like a dead end with R5000. I know, there are still Mpeg2 channels, but I think I'd rather be able to capture everything given the costs involved. One might as well migrate to HD PVR.

[Fuzzy]

I've got a Dish 211 (along with some sd dish boxes) running just SD into some tuner cards. Worked great for years, but obviously, I want to upgrade to HD. At first I had thought the HD-PVR would be wha I wanted, but then I've noticed that nextcom has released DIY kits for the R5000, for $350. The HD-PVR appears to be about $250. My question is, would the improved image quality and elimination of the IR Blaster be worth the $100 for the R5000? the DIY install is not a concern for me, as electronics is my trade, so it appears the only difference would be those two things.

Any opinions? any comparisons between HD-PVR quality, and the original stream as captured by the R5000?

I guess the HD-PVR would be a little more future proof, if for some reason Dish obsoleted the 211, but 1: I don't think that will happen for QUITE some time, and 2: I have a feeling, the way things are going, Component may start to be intentionally degraded on HD boxes, simply because of the HD-PVR. (damn, I love DRM).

* merged *

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I've got a Dish 211 (along with some sd dish boxes) running just SD into some tuner cards. Worked great for years, but obviously, I want to upgrade to HD. At first I had thought the HD-PVR would be wha I wanted, but then I've noticed that nextcom has released DIY kits for the R5000, for $350. The HD-PVR appears to be about $250. My question is, would the improved image quality and elimination of the IR Blaster be worth the $100 for the R5000? the DIY install is not a concern for me, as electronics is my trade, so it appears the only difference would be those two things.

Interesting, they used to only have the DIY kits available for the old style mods.

Not sure what to tell you, I think $100 premium would be a sorta hard sell on quality alone, but I haven't had the luxury of comparing the two (the HD PVR looks pretty good though).

The only other thing to consider is the R5000 requires their SageTV server (extra $$), and there have been reports that there are problems viewing recordings while they're recording when using UNC paths.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Not sure what to tell you, I think $100 premium would be a sorta hard sell on quality alone, but I haven't had the luxury of comparing the two (the HD PVR looks pretty good though).

Just curious in your opinion, how much better is the R5000 quality compared to the Hauppauge HD-PVR?

[stanger89]

Guess I can best put it this way, I don't notice any significant difference between HD PVR recordings from Dish and "direct" OTA recordings, that's about the best I can do without having an R5000 to do a direct comparison.

[Fuzzy]

Oh, and for me, I have a feeling the DD5.1 would be worth the $100 extra alone. Actually, throwing in the sage interface software makes the difference $150, but I'm still thinking it might be worth it. Even if the results are acceptable with the HD-PVR, I can't believe the quality is truely comparable to the R5000. The whole idea of decoding, going to analog, going back to digital, reencoding coulnd't possibly be done without some sort of artifact generation.

Someone mentioned a concern about commercial skip, because the R5000 recordings from dish are in MPEG-4, but aren't ALL recording on the HD-PVR MPEG-4? (H.264 to be precise?)

OH YEAH, and I'm pretty sure the HD-PVR is the sole reason the R5000 has dropped significantly in price. Competition is a wonderful thing.

A year ago I was ready to buy an R5000 at the then $550 price, so i guess I should just shut up and buy the damn thing now.. :-)

[mikejaner]

Oh, and for me, I have a feeling the DD5.1 would be worth the $100 extra alone. Actually, throwing in the sage interface software makes the difference $150, but I'm still thinking it might be worth it. Even if the results are acceptable with the HD-PVR, I can't believe the quality is truely comparable to the R5000. The whole idea of decoding, going to analog, going back to digital, reencoding coulnd't possibly be done without some sort of artifact generation.

I thought that originally too, until I saw the HDPVR in action. Before we had this device, The best we could really compare was with an S-Video connection out of the STB vs. S-Video into a tuner like a Hauppage PVR 150 etc...
It seems to me, the video coming over these HD channels are already running at a lower quality than a true high bitrate and full resolution video coming from say an uncompressed source or BluRay. I read somewhere that alot, if not all of the DirecTv HD channels aren't even running at the res they claim, like 1070X600 or something like that, regardless of the actual STB output of 720P or 1080i. In addition to the lower resolution, they compress the "heck" out of the signal, so alot of artifacts end up in the video.
Where I am going with this is, if the HDPVR is capable of capturing at a higher res than the actual video, then it seems, the amount of "slight degredation" of the signal (Digital->Analog->Digital) would be insignificant. When it comes to capturing from a BluRay, it's a different story because, both resolution and datarate are superior (1080P and 30Mbps) for example.

Oh, and DD5.1 is coming to the HD-PVR, so not a big deal.

[Fluffdaddy]

Originally Posted by mikejaner

Oh, and DD5.1 is coming to the HD-PVR, so not a big deal.

Link to this info please.

[LhasaCM]

The HD-PVR support website says that 5.1 is coming in the next release of drivers (though no ETA):

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/suppor...ml?tab=5#audio

What type of audio encoding is made with the HD PVR?
The initial release of the software will support 2 channel stereo audio only. You may still connect your SPDIF if you can change the settings of your source to PCM. You can otherwise use the composite audio inputs on the front or rear of the HD PVR to connect audio from your source.

The next release of the drivers will support AC-3 audio through the SPDIF input. This will enable full 5.1 surround sound.

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by Fluffdaddy

Link to this info please.

Here's directly from their site

"What type of audio encoding is made with the HD PVR?
The initial release of the software will support 2 channel stereo audio only. You may still connect your SPDIF if you can change the settings of your source to PCM. You can otherwise use the composite audio inputs on the front or rear of the HD PVR to connect audio from your source.

The next release of the drivers will support AC-3 audio through the SPDIF input. This will enable full 5.1 surround sound.
"

And the link to the page:
http://www.hauppauge.com/site/suppor...ml?tab=5#audio

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Oh, and for me, I have a feeling the DD5.1 would be worth the $100 extra alone.

I have dish network now with a VIP 211. My sole reason for going to the HD-PVR over the R5000 mod was simply because I wanted a more portable solution. I ONLY use the VIP211 to capture the HD channels so I am only losing the DD5.1 on channels like Discovery/ESPN/etc. My locals are still recorded with DD5.1 since I am pulling them OTA. If/when the drivers support 5.1, then I won't even be short that feature on Discovery/ESPN/etc.

Obviously at some point the analog could be shut off. I have a feeling that will still be awhile since anyone who has no idea how to hook A/V equipment up and are currently using component, would require Dishnetwork installers to come out and "fix" their tv which could be a huge cost.

Thougt: If we turn the auto updating off, and my box isn't plugged into a phone line, could they really turn off my analog ports? I suppose they could send some kind of over ride signal.....

[Fuzzy]

I don't think anyone expects the analog to get shut off, but it HAS been 'rumored' that they want to degrade the quality of the component outputs, like downrezzing to 480p, on certain material (premium channels and such). It is said most recievers already have the capability. Again, just rumors, but hardly out of the realm of realism for the 'brains' in hollywood.

Prior to now, it was only a threat with $1000+ equipment to capture from the component, but now with the HD-PVR available at $250, hollywood will be much more concerned.

[sic0048]

Although this is a whole nother topic by itself, I personally don't think that component outputs are going away, period. There are just too many people that use them to get away with it. Also, almost every setup that distributes HD in a facility do it over component signals (like large commercial settings). This is because HDMI is too picky and unreliable in a distribution system. So component isn't going away, and if source providers try to turn off the component outputs, they would have to incur a large expense trying to get everyone set up on something else. Many people do not even have displays that will accept HDMI so it is impractical at this point anyway.

Even if this happens one day (and it would have to be years away if ever), there are already measure out there to circumvent it, so there is nothing to worry about. By that time, we will all be using different systems anyway, so it will be a mute point then.

[Fluffdaddy]

Originally Posted by mikejaner

Here's directly from their site
The next release of the drivers will support AC-3 audio through the SPDIF input. This will enable full 5.1 surround sound.
"

And the link to the page:
http://www.hauppauge.com/site/suppor...ml?tab=5#audio

Thank you for the reply.

The day they enable 5.1 DD is the day I will purchase a 2nd unit.