Improving screens, difficult?

[mherce]

I cannot get studio to open so I assume I'm on a trial so do not have access to it? I am wondering how difficult it is to improve screens? For example, getting the imported video screens to display metadata from imported information. Such as customized actor->role tables, rating displayed as stars, hyperlinking actor names to open in a web browser, etc.

Basically, I won't be buying SageTV unless there is some way to replicate some basic function of my movies and there is nothing even close right now. I have done development once upon a time and I was once a MS MVP, though I am now a journalist by trade (and not an MVP friendly journalist ). So I've got basic development experience but am by no means a developer. I also know that working with hacked together dev environments can be a real pain, so I am also wondering how painful this studio is? What would be involved in making basic screen changes and how much time would I be looking at to do it? Does the time requirement increase or decrease if I am working on SageMC as opposed to the stock STV?

Thanks!

[viperdiablo]

I agree with the ease of use with mymovies for MCE. But i have just started to use DVD profiler with sagemc and find it just as good as mymovies with regards to movie info and cover art. Its not free but offers a free trial.

[Tiki]

Studio is a little difficult to describe - you kind of have to try it to see for yourself. It's not like any other programming environment I have used before.

It is fairly simple to make minor cosmetic changes to screen layouts. The entire user interface is created in Studio, so it is possible to make really major changes as well. Sage offers a pretty well documented API (see here: http://download.sage.tv/api/index.html).

So, it is easy to get all of the metadata that Sage stores locally in its WIZ.BIN database using the API calls and display it any way you would like.

Sage also supports calls to external Java functions, so you can write custom routines, store them in JAR files and call them from the Studio. This is how many of the more advanced add-ins do their magic.

[MeInMaui]

Also, try downloading and reading the Studio manual (available here). You can do just about anything you want with some combination of Studio and Java. There is a significant learning curve, but if I can do it, anyone can.

Aloha,
Mike

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mherce

I cannot get studio to open so I assume I'm on a trial so do not have access to it? I am wondering how difficult it is to improve screens? For example, getting the imported video screens to display metadata from imported information. Such as customized actor->role tables, rating displayed as stars, hyperlinking actor names to open in a web browser, etc.

I think I can hit this from a technical feasibility standpoint...

Basically, I won't be buying SageTV unless there is some way to replicate some basic function of my movies and there is nothing even close right now.

My understanding of the UI portion of MyMovies is that it basically consists of "web pages", for lack of a better term? I belive that's how customized GUIs are created in MCE.

So, I'll state this up front, anything that's done in MyMovies is possible with Studio.

I have done development once upon a time and I was once a MS MVP, though I am now a journalist by trade (and not an MVP friendly journalist ). So I've got basic development experience but am by no means a developer.

If you know how to "think", then you're on your way, it's just a matter of learning the syntax/conventions etc.

I also know that working with hacked together dev environments can be a real pain, so I am also wondering how painful this studio is?

That's a loaded question... It's really hard to answer frankly. For some things it's great, for others it could be better. Renaming things is trivial, moving stuff around isn't hard.

What would be involved in making basic screen changes and how much time would I be looking at to do it?

There's really no way to estimate that, especially not knowing what you mean by "basic screen changes". If you've got some idea of the workings of Studio, and are looking to create a new menu based on another one, you can have it up and going in between a couple minutes (for a simple "menu" menu) to a couple hours (for a more dynamic, interactive menu).

Does the time requirement increase or decrease if I am working on SageMC as opposed to the stock STV?

Really depends, if you're looking to tweak the detailed info page, it's probably about a draw.

It would probably be easier to answer if we had a better idea of your specific desires, goals, etc.

The most important thing, by far, is to start small. As with any programming project, it's really easy to be overwhelmed at the beginning.

[mherce]

Thanks for the replies! Downloading that manual now.

It would probably be easier to answer if we had a better idea of your specific desires, goals, etc.

Basically, the movie display screens are not up to par with the HTPC field and are currently not acceptable to my household (and I made the mistake of deploying Media Portal during my HTPC software tests, which is even better, end-user wise, than MCE ). I would be having to add ratings, the ability to use ratings as a sorting field (like the genre ones), detailed actor role mappings, cross linking, as well as the basic fields that is currently lacking (or displayed poorly) to gain approval. I understand from reading threads that the poor implementation of the database means that cross linking is not going to be possible so hyperlinking to IMDB for web browsing is going to be the only option. I am unsure of the ability to add sort options but it looks like it is possible, I will have a read of the manual, hopefully that will answer that.

Thanks!

Off Topic: A note to the Frey/SageTV people, I really wish I didn't have to make this decision blind. If I am not making some dumb mistake and studio is really closed off to trial users, I don't understand why. I would think 3rd party development should be encouraged. Making it free to use studio would probably help that. Allowing developers who have no wish to leave their HTPC app (understandably) port their creations for this community is only a plus. Like the closed database, I do feel this mentality is counter-productive to platform building and its why SageTV is behind the rest of the HTPC field. Heck, even MS's encrypted database uses a key that is publicly available. When MS is more open that you are...

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mherce

Off Topic: A note to the Frey/SageTV people, I really wish I didn't have to make this decision blind. If I am not making some dumb mistake and studio is really closed off to trial users, I don't understand why. I would think 3rd party development should be encouraged. Making it free to use studio would probably help that.

It is free to use Studio, however Studio is in integral part of SageTV, it's not a separate IDE. Hence you can't just give it away free without also giving SageTV away free. I don't know all the reasoning behind it, but I don't think Studio would be very useful during just the trial period.

Allowing developers who have no wish to leave their HTPC app (understandably) port their creations for this community is only a plus.

Studio is also useless without SageTV, so you can't use one without the other.

Like the closed database, I do feel this mentality is counter-productive to platform building and its why SageTV is behind the rest of the HTPC field.

The database isn't closed (I'd say that's a common misconception), everything in the database is accessible via the SageTV API and the SageTV API is freely available. The only thing about the database is that it isn't readable without the SageTV API.

[mherce]

I think we disagree on what "open database" means and the benefit of 3rd party development for platform building, but I'll get a chance to check out studio.

Thanks!

[othy]

Originally Posted by mherce

I think we disagree on what "open database" means and the benefit of 3rd party development for platform building, but I'll get a chance to check out studio.

You're not alone in wishing the wiz.bin database was a little more open, though the API is by all accounts very good. People seem to complain about it, but I don't see many instances of people reporting that they're not able to do the things they want to do because the database isn't more open...

Originally Posted by mherce

Like the closed database, I do feel this mentality is counter-productive to platform building and its why SageTV is behind the rest of the HTPC field. Heck, even MS's encrypted database uses a key that is publicly available. When MS is more open that you are...

This is certainly a question of perception. I daresay that most people in this forum would argue that SageTV is ahead of the rest of the HTPC field in most areas. And of course folks on forums for other HTPC apps will argue that theirs is ahead of the field.

Speaking only for myself, I wouldn't switch to Media Center for all the tea in China. I have friends who run MCE and VMC love them, but there's no way I'd give up the flexibility "open-ness" of Sage. And while in the past there were always a couple of things I wish I could do, now that I've got an HD extender and and HD-PVR, I've pretty much run out of things to have on my wish list!

If you can, give it a shot. It really is a great program. These forums also have a great "culture" for helping people out.

Tim