1 more reason to be pro HTPC/Sagetv :Dish begin's DRM on PPV May 6th

[Fluffdaddy]

How long before all movies or TV shows even, have a time limit to watch?

c/p from satguys

Pay-Per-View (PPV) Services Subject to Digital Rights Management

DISH Network has been asked to comply with industry standards which require us to make some changes to our Pay-Per-View (PPV) services. These standards apply to ALL TV-service providers and are not unique to DISH Network.

These new standards will only affect some PPV movies that are recorded on or after May 6, 2008 by DISH Network subscribers. Any movies or events recorded by DISH Network customers before May 6, 2008 will not be affected.

How do these new standards affect PPV movie services effective May 6, 2008?

• Limited Recording – The amount of time PPV movies can be kept on a Digital Video Recorder (DVR) will be restricted.

24-hour window – Once customers begin to playback a recorded PPV movie from their DVR, they have 24 hours to pause and finish watching it, and may also watch it for an unlimited number of times within that period (if the entire 24-hour period is within the license window of the movie – please refer to the “License Window” section below for more information).

After the 24-hour window – After the 24-hour time period, customers will be able to see the title of the movie in the “My Recordings” section of their DishDVR, but will not be able to view it; they will also be prompted to delete the movie/event from their DVR. If the customer does not delete the movie, the title will remain in “My Recordings” but customers will not be able to view it.

• License Window – The license window is the length of time that a movie may air on PPV. License window time durations differ but average between 3 to 6 months. A movie with limited recording will not be available to view once the license window is over.

If the license window expires before DVR playback begins, the customer will not able to view the recording, and will be prompted to delete the movie.

• External Hard Drive – If a customer moves a movie to their external hard drive, DRM restrictions still apply.

[hemicuda]

Sounds like that might just shoot them in the foot for the affected subscribers. Seems messed up to me that if I *PAID* to watch a show I should be allowed to watch it (at least once) ANY time I choose. Now under DRM terms (let me say I really loathe DRM) the customer should be allowed to watch the show once through regardless of whether is was a day or a year from now. What you posted seems that if a person pays to record a PPV and doesn't watch it in the specified timespan they lose out. More like services not being rendered for fees assessed.

[SpiffyRex]

Wow, this will kill the PPV market. I bet many Dish subscribers are blocking updates to their boxes by now... Are other providers (DirecTV, cable) also been asked to enforce DRM on PPV content?

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by hemicuda

Seems messed up to me that if I *PAID* to watch a show I should be allowed to watch it (at least once) ANY time I choose.

Just to play devil's advocate, if you pay to see a movie in the theater, you see it that day or not at all. You don't get to hang onto the ticket for a month or a year, then bring it back to the theater and demand that they honor it. PPV is the same model. As the name says, you're paying for the right to view that broadcast, not to record it and save it for a rainy day.

I'm not saying I like that model. I'm just saying it shouldn't come as a big shock that they're finally getting around to enforcing it.

[hemicuda]

touché; when you consider a broader picture (no pun )

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

Just to play devil's advocate, if you pay to see a movie in the theater, you see it that day or not at all. You don't get to hang onto the ticket for a month or a year, then bring it back to the theater and demand that they honor it. PPV is the same model. As the name says, you're paying for the right to view that broadcast, not to record it and save it for a rainy day.

I'm not saying I like that model. I'm just saying it shouldn't come as a big shock that they're finally getting around to enforcing it.

And just another thing to consider, this is basically exactly the same way "rentals" work on Xbox Live Marketplace and iTunes. You pay $X and you've got so long to start watching it and 24 hours to finish once you start.

Frankly I'm kind of surprised they allow recording PPV at all.

Originally Posted by SpiffyRex

Wow, this will kill the PPV market. I bet many Dish subscribers are blocking updates to their boxes by now...

I really doubt that, while I'm sure there are those who use PPV as an alternative to buying, and simply record and archive, I'd bet the vast majority of PPV users are simply that, viewers, they watch it and they're done.

Consider all those who use PPV on non-DVR boxes.

Are other providers (DirecTV, cable) also been asked to enforce DRM on PPV content?

That's what the email/notice said.

FWIW, DRM-hater here, this is one reason I don't do PPV, (including iTunes/XBL Marketplace).

[Fluffdaddy]

Reminds me of the DiVX DVD Discs that also expired, that the public rejected quick fast an in a hurry a few years back.

Hope this meets the same destiny

[stuckless]

While, I also hate DRM, I don't see this having any impact on Dish/Cable sales. Most non techy people that I have spoken to about DRM either see it as good thing, or don't have a clue what it is or both

Eventually I can see Dish and or PVR providors adding content restrictions to all recorded content. Eg, if I record CSI then I have 1 week to watch the episode.... And it's only a matter of time before they get claws into PC based recorders, such as Sage, MCE, Beyond TV, etc.

Before Digital PVRs were available people used Analog PVRs all the time And you can still use an analog PVR to record all the content you want and you won't have to worry about them expiring on you. You can share your analogy copies with all your friends, etc. If anything, I think that the networks are thankful for DVRs since now they can add content restrictions and copy restrictions, which they couldn't do with VCRs. It's all part of their master plan

[SpiffyRex]

Just to play devil's advocate, if you pay to see a movie in the theater, you see it that day or not at all. You don't get to hang onto the ticket for a month or a year, then bring it back to the theater and demand that they honor it. PPV is the same model. As the name says, you're paying for the right to view that broadcast, not to record it and save it for a rainy day.

Good point, however, in this case the theater is my own living room, the equipment used is my own HTPC, and the only labor involved is that of my own family. Of course there's more than that, a whole infrastructure to deliver the content, numerous agreements to preserve rights, etc which adds up. I agree with your point, reason why I don't use PPV myself. My spouse and friends don't want to hear about it though. They pay $3.99 per movie and think it's their God-given-right to keep it since they had paid for the extra expense of a DVR. I would not argue with that. Cable and Sat providers charge you extra for the equipment and monthly fees so you can enjoy their DVR service. I tend to disagree with people that think that gives them the right to keep the PPV recordings, but that's what they are used to, that was "the deal" when they decided to pay extra for a DVR.

I'm not saying I like that model. I'm just saying it shouldn't come as a big shock that they're finally getting around to enforcing it.

I don't like the model either so I don't use it. I'm just surprised than they are enforcing it b/s I think it will kill the format once that people find they can't keep the recordings. Kinda like a speed limit that has never been enforced and now people might start to look for alternate roads...

Consider all those who use PPV on non-DVR boxes.

I don't know anyone who does that. My friends and neighbors which don't have DVRs don't use PPV b/s they have missed the 24h window is the past and feel the rules have cheated them. I don't mean to imply that just b/s people I know don't use it this way, then the rest of the nation won't use it either. It's just a format that doesn't makes sense to me or people I know, specially if you don't have a DVR.

I really doubt that, while I'm sure there are those who use PPV as an alternative to buying, and simply record and archive, I'd bet the vast majority of PPV users are simply that, viewers, they watch it and they're done.

May I point out the fate of Divx DVDs? Sure, now you don't have to buy especial equipment to play PPV but I bet the concept of loosing the recordings 24h after you play them have not sync into the general public, not those with DVRs. I really don't know what will happen, just my humble opinion.

That's what the email/notice said.

All I read from the original post is that Dish Network is been asked to comply with PPV standards and that this standard is industry wide. Given how little I care about PPV I don't know if Dish is the only PPV provider that has not comply yet and therefore is the only one been asked or if none of the PPV providers have ever comply before and therefore they are all asked to comply by May 6.

FWIW, DRM-hater here, this is one reason I don't do PPV, (including iTunes/XBL Marketplace).

Same here, reason why I will not upgrade to BD until movies I really like are only available in that format.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by SpiffyRex

I don't know anyone who does that. My friends and neighbors which don't have DVRs don't use PPV b/s they have missed the 24h window is the past and feel the rules have cheated them. I don't mean to imply that just b/s people I know don't use it this way, then the rest of the nation won't use it either. It's just a format that doesn't makes sense to me or people I know, specially if you don't have a DVR.

I'd still be really surprised if the majority of PPV users archive to their DVR. Heck, I'd be rather surprised if the majority record them at all.

May I point out the fate of Divx DVDs? Sure, now you don't have to buy especial equipment to play PPV but I bet the concept of loosing the recordings 24h after you play them have not sync into the general public, not those with DVRs. I really don't know what will happen, just my humble opinion.

But DivX was really a special case IMO. With DivX, regardless of how it was intended to be use, you were sold a physical object, you purchased a disc. The idea that that physical object would cease to function after some time, and require "activation" to work again is what killed it.

I think PPV parallels going to a movie, or renting more than it does DivX.

All I read from the original post is that Dish Network is been asked to comply with PPV standards and that this standard is industry wide. Given how little I care about PPV I don't know if Dish is the only PPV provider that has not comply yet and therefore is the only one been asked or if none of the PPV providers have ever comply before and therefore they are all asked to comply by May 6.

One thing unique about Dish, is that they allow archiving to external drives, AFAIK, no other provider has anything comporable, so they "in effect" already limit you. You can't really "archive" on an 80GB DVR.

Same here, reason why I will not upgrade to BD until movies I really like are only available in that format.

Fortunately there are ways around that