Tivo Box as tuner?

[mazakmaster]

Would it be possible to use a TIVO box(dual cablecard version) with sagetv as a tuner? You can buy these new for about $235 online. I really want to set up Sagetv with clients with HDTV. I dont want to rent 4 cableboxes from RCN to do it...

[paulbeers]

No.

[mazakmaster]

What I meant was a TIVO instead of a Motorola (from cable company) to record from through SAGE.

[gplasky]

You're not going to get HD out of the Tivo box to the Sage server so I'm not sure what the point is. And how would Sage change the channel on the Tivo-isn't it done through the Tivo guide?

Gerry

[fyodor]

Hmmm. Once the Hauppauge HD-DVR (HD component capture) comes out you might be able to use it with a Tivo HD (treating the Tivo as a dumb tuner). The only problem that I can think of is that the Tivo might occasionally give you prompts, menu screens, etc that you would need to dismiss.

This brings another question to mind-it's my vague understanding that there was supposed to be an FCC mandate requiring that the cable companies stop deploying cableboxes with integrated encryption. All new deployments were supposed to be cableboxes with cablecards. This was supposed to result in all this new competition, with people able to just buy and use all these third party CC-ready STBs. Is anybody aware of actual CC ready STB boxes that one can buy? My (possibly incorrect) impression was that you would be able to just get a motorola/SA cable box and install cable cards in it. I haven't been able to find anything.

Updated:Looking at your original post, I should point out that you wouldn't be able to use the Tivo HD as a dual tuner device-you would just be able to capture whatever it was playing. You would also need IR codes for the Tivo.

[mazakmaster]

Could I use the TIVO without subscription, just a dumb tuner?

[gplasky]

Give up on the Tivo-as-a-tuner thing. It's just not practical.

Gerry

[fyodor]

I am 90 percent sure that the Tivo will work as a tuner, including utilizing the cable cards, without service. I'd recommend posting something on the Tivo community boards. They can confirm that you won't need service and also address whether you'll have problems with prompts, dialogues, etc, that might mess up your recordings.

I'm not sure why the other poster is saying it isn't practical. People have gotten stranger things to work. There are universal remotes that work with Tivos, so I assume there is some way to configure IR. I know that people have configured their satellite DVRs to act as dumb tuners, so I don't know why it's such a problematic leap to a TivoHD.

[gplasky]

Because if you get a TivoHD and want to use it with Sage the only video outputs you have available is s-video and composite. The other video output is HDMI which can't be used. So why would you go thru trying to set up something with a TivoHD and only be able to record it in s-video or composite resolution?

Gerry

[fyodor]

Are you sure about the outputs? The webpage says it has component outputs and I'd be really surprised if they sold a device without component outputs.

http://www.tivo.com/whatistivo/tivoh.../index.html#12

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by fyodor

Are you sure about the outputs? The webpage says it has component outputs and I'd be really surprised if they sold a device without component outputs.

http://www.tivo.com/whatistivo/tivoh.../index.html#12

But what are you going to connect the components cable to? You need to attach those to a tuner card in the Sage box. Right now there is no such animal as a tuner card with component inputs.

Gerry

[MeInMaui]

Keep in mind too, that even if you were to get the tivo to work as a tuner, at $235 + $3/month cablecard rental, it would take about 3.9 years to hit breakeven (assuming $8/month STB rental) and you would still have the $3/month fee for the cablecard after that. Also, you would only ever be able to use one tuner at a time. It seems like a big headache for very little potential gain.

One more thing, our CC started using switched digital video (SDV), which is incompatible with one-way cablecard devices. So HD tivos are near useless here. There is no guarantee your CC won't do the same at some point. HTH

Aloha,
Mike

[fyodor]

That's why I suggested waiting for the Hauppauge device.

Originally Posted by gplasky

But what are you going to connect the components cable to? You need to attach those to a tuner card in the Sage box. Right now there is no such animal as a tuner card with component inputs.

Gerry

[gplasky]

You only have one set of component outputs on a Tivo HD box. So you're going to need a Tivo box for each Hauppauge device. You have no access to the second tuner-it's all internal. So for HD you have one HDMI output you can't use and a single component output you can. I'm still sticking to using the cable boxes with component out that you know will work much easier.

Gerry

[fyodor]

You're getting a good deal-I've usually seen $12 or higher for an HD converter box. Some cable companies also offer one cable card free per outlet.

Still, in the end you're right that the savings aren't going to be that great. The other thing is that with a cable company STB, he might be able to get channels over firewire, which would spare him the cost of the HD-PVR for capture.



http://www.comcast.com/Customers/Faq...s.ashx?Id=2651

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

Keep in mind too, that even if you were to get the tivo to work as a tuner, at $235 + $3/month cablecard rental, it would take about 3.9 years to hit breakeven (assuming $8/month STB rental) and you would still have the $3/month fee for the cablecard after that. Also, you would only ever be able to use one tuner at a time. It seems like a big headache for very little potential gain.

One more thing, our CC started using switched digital video (SDV), which is incompatible with one-way cablecard devices. So HD tivos are near useless here. There is no guarantee your CC won't do the same at some point. HTH

Aloha,
Mike

[mazakmaster]

It seems really expensive moving into this sage HDTV. Right now i have 4 tuners and 4 clients with 1 cablebox to tune the premium channels. If i want to go the HIDEF route with sage its going to cost me a lot to upgrade hardware. I think its cheaper going the TIVo boxes with cablecards and ditch the SAGE.......

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by mazakmaster

It seems really expensive moving into this sage HDTV. Right now i have 4 tuners and 4 clients with 1 cablebox to tune the premium channels. If i want to go the HIDEF route with sage its going to cost me a lot to upgrade hardware. I think its cheaper going the TIVo boxes with cablecards and ditch the SAGE.......

Really? It seems to me that it would be pretty much equal if not better with Sage. Why?

235 per TIVO that only works with 1 TV. That means to get all your TV's hooked with it it would be almost 1000 bucks right? Okay. Now you are going to have to pay 8.31 per month (for the cheapest option) per Tivo right? That is $34 bucks for 4 Tivo's......

With Sage, you can rent any number of HD boxes from your cable company. I bet you probably will only need 2 most of the time (since Sage is a centralized recording device rather than Tivo). That is maybe 24 bucks a month. Then you have to buy 2 Hauppauge HD PVR's for 500.....Even running this 1 year like this you will have saves $524 bucks. That is enough for 2 more HD extenders or enough 2 more HD PVR's!

All of this and you do not have to worry about which TIVO unit recorded your favorite show.....

P.S. And I didn't even take into account what your Cable company is going to charge you for the Cable Cards in your Tivo. That would even cut in 3 bucks a month more right there per Tivo...


EDIT: Its not expensive to go HD on Sage.....its expensive to go HD period.

[mazakmaster]

I think I would need to upgrade my PC as it is a few years old, I dont think it could hande HD for 4 clients. I would need 4 hd extenders from sage. 4 tuners to grab the hd from the cableboxes. I figure about $2000 in hardware. Now I still need to rent 4 hd cableboxes from RCN @ $12 each per month. Now the 4 cableboxes on sage will record 4 shows, and the 4 Tivos will record 8. 4 Tivos monthy will cost about $37 plus another $6 for the cablecards for a total of $43 a month. 4 cableboxes from RCN will cost $48 a month and will only record half as much(8 tuners vs 4). If there was a PC cablecard tuner, that would help level the playing field for Sage.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by mazakmaster

I think I would need to upgrade my PC as it is a few years old, I dont think it could hande HD for 4 clients. I would need 4 hd extenders from sage. 4 tuners to grab the hd from the cableboxes. I figure about $2000 in hardware. Now I still need to rent 4 hd cableboxes from RCN @ $12 each per month. Now the 4 cableboxes on sage will record 4 shows, and the 4 Tivos will record 8. 4 Tivos monthy will cost about $37 plus another $6 for the cablecards for a total of $43 a month. 4 cableboxes from RCN will cost $48 a month and will only record half as much(8 tuners vs 4). If there was a PC cablecard tuner, that would help level the playing field for Sage.

You are comparing apples to oranges though....

Yes the Tivo's can record 2 shows at once per unit, but they are only available on that unit right? So often times you are going to be recording the same thing on multiple units. I would venture to guess that you probably wouldn't be recording more than 2 shows off of say ESPN / DISCOVERY / Etc at any given moment. Your major networks you can pull free off of the air. Using this, I bet you could setup sage for Free ABC/CBS/FOX/etc...and get away with 2 HD boxes for all other channels. As I was stating too, since Sage is a centralized recording system, you wouldn't be recording the same show in 4 locations, but rather just 1 which is why you wouldn't need the volume of tuners. I have 6 Tuners. Do you know how many times I have had all 6 recording favorites (and I am not talking the intelligent recordings where sage "guesses" I will want to watch)? Once. And that was solely to see if I could do it to test my system.

[mazakmaster]

I live in a remote area and get no reception with an antenna. From what I am hearing the cable companys are going to be removing the analog channels and only using digital, which means I will need a cablebox at every tv in the house. About 6 months ago all the analog channels(2-99) showed up in digital form on one of my LCD tv's with qam tuner(902-999. I still will need 4 cableboxes for sage as i have 4 people in the house. Like I said before, it is the lack of pc cablecard tuners that is making it too expensive with Sage. If I could only use The Tivo just as a tuner without the subscription.............