Aspect ratio questions

[pjpjpjpj]

I think there was a thread about this here back before the latest stock of Extenders was released, but maybe I am imagining things, or maybe it was somewhere else... anyway, I was wondering if people can post suggestions , tips, or advice on the best settings for aspect ratios.

I have a 16:9 TV. I have my aspect set on "Source", which I thought I read would give me 16:9 for programs in that setting, and 4:3 for 4:3 programs (which it appears to do)... the problem is, whenever I watch something that is not 16:9, and go back to a menu, the menu is at 4:3, and usually with chopped-off edges (as though it wants to be slightly wider than 4:3 - I usually just lose half of the "S" in "Sage TV" in the upper left corner). I hit "video out" and it will put it back to a 16:9 menu. Also, sometimes when I turn on a 4:3 program, the picture has the "ragged" edge on top and I have to hit "video out" again to switch to the next 4:3 mode, which cures that.

I don't know what settings I am scrolling through when I do this (it would be nice if it showed on the screen briefly), but I know that when I go back to the menus, I am still in 1080p output, and still in "source". Is the solution to use "fill" (which, I *thought* stretched 4:3 out to fill a 16:9 screen, which I hate)?

Long story short, is there a way to set the menus to always display at 16:9, but not have 4:3 programs stretched or zoomed?

I should also mention that I have not upgraded to 6.3.10 yet - I am still at 6.3.8. If this was something that was changed, my apology, I plan on upgrading this weekend....

[BFisher]

I'm pretty 6.3.9 was the first version to officially support the HD Extender... so any problems you are having could simply be that you haven't upgraded to a version that is supported.

[bialio]

I'm running 6.3.8 and have no problems with my extenders. You might go in and enable only one resolution in the extender setup menu (get there by pressing Home when the extender is OFF) - I only enable the resolution I use on the TV the extender is on and that seems to keep these types of problems at bay.

Also make sure your settings in Sage itself are right - both for Overscan (put the little arrows in the corners) and Aspect Ratio (4:3, 5:4, 16:9, or 16:10)

[stanger89]

Sounds like you've got Native Output switching enabled and your TV is doing some weird AR stuff when Sage changes resolution.

[pjpjpjpj]

Okay, last night I switched from component to HDMI. Still problems, but different.

Now, when I start Sage (from "off" or from "sleep"), it is at least in 16:9 (whereas I had previously been in 4:3 to start)... but I'm starting in the setting I described above where the ends are chopped off - almost like the screen is zoomed just a bit too much. I lose the "S" in SageTV in the upper left, and part of the time in the upper right. One press of "video out" and it pops back to a perfect fit.

I have Native Output switching disabled. I am set to "Source" (attempts at "Fill" have not made any changes, though this setting appears to not want to stick). My overscan "corner ells" are perfect. I am set to 16:9.

If I try bialio's suggestion of disabling every resolution except 1080p, might this help in this situation (and what if I am watching 480i TV)?

[gplasky]

I would guess that if you have set the overscan "corner ells" correctly yet you lose the "S" in Sage and part of the time in the right then your TV is actually doing something to the picture. Check your TV manual and your TV menu and disable it (or enable) how it handles changes in resolution or sources.

Gerry

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by gplasky

I would guess that if you have set the overscan "corner ells" correctly yet you lose the "S" in Sage and part of the time in the right then your TV is actually doing something to the picture. Check your TV manual and your TV menu and disable it (or enable) how it handles changes in resolution or sources.

Gerry

Actually, I was mistaken in my first post - when my resolution is in that "too big" mode, it cuts off both sides all the time - not just the left side.

I guess my first question should be, what are the modes that you area scrolling through using the "video out" button? I have never noticed a menu setting changing as I do this, so I really don't know "what" I am changing. All I know is that I can scroll through about 5 settings, one has the menu too wide, one is perfect, and two or three are 4:3 (one of them being 4:3 inside of a 4:3 window trying to do 16:9, so that it's even skinnier than 4:3). One of the 4:3 settings has the "ragged" edge at the top (as though the overscan is off), and the others don't.

Everything that I have done, menu-wise, seems to be correct, per my last post. Yet the default menu setting seems to be this "slightly too wide" deal, which forces me to hit "Video out" just about every time (maybe every time) I come back to a menu from watching something, as well as every single time that I come out of sleep mode.

My TV is a Sony 1080p, and I have it set at "full", which should be correct, and have not changed it. The antenna tuner shows 16:9 programs at 16:9 and 4:3 programs at 4:3 in this setting, so I don't know why Sage and the extender are having problems. I don't like having to constantly hit the Video Out button every time I go from menu to TV to menu,

[bialio]

It sounds to me like your TV is not always on FULL. As you switch resolutions on the extender, it is very likely that the TV is changing it's AR. So when you have the "too big" mode, pull up the OSD display from the TV remote and make double sure that it is set to FULL.

I still recommend going in and disabling modes you don't use.

btl.

[CyRex]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

...the screen is zoomed just a bit too much. I lose the "S" in SageTV in the upper left, and part of the time in the upper right. One press of "video out" and it pops back to a perfect fit.

On the HD extender, somewhere in the Detailed Settings is an option for Output Resolution. There are few options in there by default, or you can specify custom ones in the properties file. This is what you are changing when you press the '"Video Out" button.

My suggestion would be to watch a recording and press the "Video Out" button until the aspect ration looks correct and nothing is getting clipped. Next, return to the menu. If I am understanding your previous posts, some of the words on the menu will now be off the screen, correct? Do not hit the "Video Out" button to correct this, instead, go into Detailed Settings and adjust your overscan settings at this output resolution.

My thought is that you are adjusting your overscan while in one video mode, but then changing video modes and not re-adjusting the overscan to compensate.

-Dan

[bialio]

Very good point - not only could the different resolutions have different AR's from the TV itself, it almost assuredly needs the overscan adjusted.

On my plasma, 1080i and 720p don't have the same Overscan settings - which is why I just enable a single resolution. As long as you don't care about native output switching this eliminates a lot of variables.

btl.

[pjpjpjpj]

So I tried a bunch of stuff. I definitely determined that the TV AR was not the issue. I went through all the ARs in "Detailed setup", and then went up and changed the overscan settings. As suggested, they were all different - I'm fairly certain that this had a lot to do with my problems before. When I went for 1080p, I had to adjust it, then at 1080i, it was way off and I had to adjust again, then same with 720p and so on. What I didn't know was that the settings were not "sticking" for each one - every time I was doing this, I was effectively just changing the "overall" overscan setting.

So I took bialio's advice and I rebooted and disabled everything except 1080p, then set those overscan settings. That fixed the menu problem once and for all - the menus are always correct now. The only gripe I have is that some - not all, just some - SD 480i programs still have the "ragged edge" at the top, where I can see static-y lines and flashing. I have not tried to move the overscan "ell" up because I don't want the top edge of 16:9 programs cut off, but maybe that would just be an answer after all. Of course, I also determined that, if the show I am watching in 480i was sent in 16:9 (therefore meaning I have letterbox and pillarbox and a small, centered picture), I can just use the TV's "zoom" option for that program. It cuts off some of the scrollbar (when it's up) but otherwise it works well.

Thanks for the advice, all.

[pjpjpjpj]

Okay, maybe some premature clapping above.

I have my extender set where it only has 1080p enabled. Everything else is fine as mentioned above – the menus are fine, all 16:9 programming looks fine. But all 4:3 broadcasts have a “ragged edge” at the top – as though the overscan is slightly off. However, no matter what I do to the overscan settings, including moving the top “ell” up to be completely off the screen, I still have the exact same appearance – that “ragged edge” on top.

Thoughts, comments, solutions?

[thatdude90210]

The overscan adjustment on the HD extender only seems to affect the menu, not the video. There doesn't seem to be the same percentage adjustments that the regular client has... at least I don't see any.

What I did was setup some custom aspect ratios like shown here.

And then use Nielm's automatic aspect ratio switcher.

I setup two custom aspect ratios, one for "letterbox" and another called "overscan" that does a slight overscan of the video to get rid of the ragged edge.

Then just set Nielm's automatic aspect to "overscan" all videos recorded from my analog source.

There is a custom setting for the letterbox on the FAQ link, I don't have access to my server so I don't have the exact setting for my "overscan." But it should be just like the Letterbox one, just with different numbers like this:

Overscan|source=2048,2048,4052,4052,FrontEdgeToCenter,FrontEdgeToCenter,Relative,Relative,Relative,Relative

[CyRex]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

all 4:3 broadcasts have a “ragged edge” at the top – as though the overscan is slightly off. However, no matter what I do to the overscan settings, including moving the top “ell” up to be completely off the screen, I still have the exact same appearance – that “ragged edge” on top.

The 'ragged edge' you are seeing is the closed-captioning information. Normal TVs have a bit of overscan that usually hides this from view. Adjusting the overscan settings in SageTV will not help with this, as they only affect the positioning of the UI (AFAIK).

To get rid of it, you need to adjust the overscan settings on your TV so that the CC info is off the visible screen. If your TV doesn't allow this, then you can edit the default aspect ratio (or create a new aspect ratio) in the HD100's property file to get rid of the top few pixels of the video. There is a thread on "Custom Aspect Ratios" that can help you out with that.

FYI, this is not a Sage-specific problem. I experienced the same thing when I had my Comcast HD box connected directly to my Plasma display via HDMI. I was not able to adjust the overscan on my TV, but switching to component cables fixed the problem.

If you need more clarification on anything, just ask.

-Dan