Using MediaMVP / Media Extender across the Internet

[jonopelgt]

I am attempting to use a happauge media MVP and sageTV placeshifter client to remotely view a my sagetv server via the internet. The Server and the client[MEdia MVP] are on different subnets; this is required as they are physically separated, and connected by the Internet and a VPN. I realize that the hauppauge MediaMVP does support this by design.

However, I am very close to achieving this, and just need some sagetv specific help.



Background:
The MEdiaMVP does not support connections to servers on different subnets. In my system Both the SageTV Server:192.168.15.101 and MediaMVP 192.168.10.60 are connected by a fully routable VPN.

MVP IP Addressing:
When the MVP first powers on it looks for a DHCP server to assign an address. I configured my DHCP server to allways assign the same IP address to the MVP by assigning a specific MAC address. This is required so I can write a script to automatically telnet into the box and command it to connect to the remote Server.

MVP booting:
Since the MVP finds the boot server using broadcast UDP messages it cannot find the SageTV server on a different subnet. Since the broadcasts are not passed across the VPN. As a workaround I am using the Hauppage supplied SW on a local server to boot the MVP with the SageTV client.
To do this I replaced the dongle.bin file with the SageTV client. This works verywell. After power on the MVP allways received the same IP address and then connects to the local boot server and downloads the SageTV placeshifter. It then boots the SageTV splash screen before going black.
At this point the MVP is searching for a SageTV server. Checking the bus shows the at the MVP is sending broadcast messages and waiting for a server to respond.
My server cannot respond since it cannot hear the client broadcast messages

Connecting to the SageTV Server:
Since the MVP graphic firmware interface does not provide a way to assign a server IP I found a workaround able do this via telnet. Telnet into the MVP and login as root, No Password is required. After some poking around in the MVP I was able to find the startup script "/etc/rcS". This script is executed after booting and controls startup of the "/sagetv/miniclient" application. After reviewing the rcS script it is apparent that the miniclient application first argument is the IP address of the server. Using the following command I am able to get the MVP to begin the connection process to the Server on a different subnet, "/sagetv/miniclient IPADDRESS". Normally the stdio and errio are piped to a null file by the rcS startup script. however when executing it manually through telnet the console reads out the status.

This is where I need help. After starting the Sagetv miniclient it begins to connect but fails with "Connection error 1". This is not very descriptive, Can anyone decode this information?? It is reasonable to assume the client has allmost negociated a complete connection since "Connected to media server" is displayed.

FYI The media server does have a sagetv placeshifter client license installed on it.

/etc # /sagetv/miniclient 192.168.150.101

Starting SageTVMini Client
Connecting to 192.168.150.101
Starting GFX thread
Starting main loop
Connection accepted by server
Connected to gfx server
A0800000 800000 400 130000 2D0 1E0 25FC00
Mapped video memory at 30000000
Clearing vidmem
Creating texture space
Allocated texture space
Query Property GFX_TEXTMODE
Sending back NONE
Query Property GFX_BLENDMODE
Sending back PREMULTIPLY
Query Property GFX_DRAWMODE
Sending back UPDATE
Query Property GFX_BITMAP_FORMAT
Sending back RAW32
Query Property GFX_SCALING
Query Property GFX_OFFLINE_IMAGE_CACHE
Query Property GFX_SUPPORTED_ASPECTS
Sending back 4:3,16:9
Query Property GFX_ASPECT
Sending back 4:3
Query Property GFX_SUPPORTED_RESOLUTIONS
Sending back 720x480i@59.94;720x576i@50
Query Property GFX_RESOLUTION
Sending back
Query Property GFX_COMPOSITE
Sending back BLEND
Query Property GFX_COLORKEY
Sending back 00000000
Query Property INPUT_DEVICES
Query Property DISPLAY_OVERSCAN
Query Property VIDEO_CODECS
Sending back MPEG2-VIDEO
Query Property AUDIO_CODECS
Sending back MPG1L2,MPG1L3,AC3
Query Property PULL_AV_CONTAINERS
Query Property PUSH_AV_CONTAINERS
Sending back MPEG2-PS
Query Property FIXED_PUSH_MEDIA_FORMAT
Query Property DETAILED_BUFFER_STATS
Query Property PUSH_BUFFER_SEEKING
Query Property MEDIA_PLAYER_BUFFER_DELAY
Query Property IR_PROTOCOL
Sending back RC5
Query Property CRYPTO_ALGORITHMS
Connection has been terminated by server
Error processing GFX Command
Connection accepted by server
Connected to media server
Connection error 1, exiting
Read input failed

[electron]

Does it always die after the CRYPTO_ALGORITHM? Maybe it uses the subnet information as a salt or something. Very interesting idea for sure.

[jonopelgt]

Yes always dies at the same point

[_Demo_]

The MVP doesn't support CRYPTO_ALGORITHMS which the server requires when the placeshifter/extender isn't on the local network.

_Demo_

[jonopelgt]

Sounds like there is a limitation in the Server and or client which will prevent this from ever working regardless of what rube-goldberg routing/startup I develop?

Is this the SageTV intentional design or a compromise due to a limitation of the feature set of the MVP hardware?

What "CRYPTO_ALGORITHS" are required and Why? Why is this applied differently based on the network location of the client placeshifter?


Thanks in advance for any info.

[valnar]

While I haven't tried it across a different network yet, I believe the new HD extender takes a static IP. I haven't gone into the screen to see if it also supports a gateway.

Anyone?

Robert

[electron]

If the connection is TCP based, you could use a SSH client on the remote subnet to connect to an SSH server on the SageTV server subnet to bypass this restriction. The SSH server could be installed on the SageTV server, the client would have to run on a machine which is on the same subnet as the MVP. How about that Rube Goldberg setup

Of course this is just an idea, I haven't tried this.

[jonopelgt]

Originally Posted by electron

If the connection is TCP based, you could use a SSH client on the remote subnet to connect to an SSH server on the SageTV server subnet to bypass this restriction. The SSH server could be installed on the SageTV server, the client would have to run on a machine which is on the same subnet as the MVP. How about that Rube Goldberg setup

Of course this is just an idea, I haven't tried this.

I've considered doing that already. Actually my first atempt to get the MVP to work across the subnet. I wrote an a program to forward UDP broadcast messages to a unicast address. I ran this program on a machine on each subnet very similar to your SSH idea. [I didn't know i could do it with SSH at the time] That way the Sage server would hear the client, and begin the applicaiton download. My hope was once the MVP had completed boot it would use unicast messages to the server, and bypass the additional machines. However this had limited sucess; the MVP did begin to download the application from the server but it never quit finished, and I couldn't figure out why from the network captures.

I then had the idea to load the application from a local TFTP server, realizing my machine already had the Hauppauge software that provided a TFTP server I just replaced the binary load image.

[jstomlinson]

Originally Posted by valnar

While I haven't tried it across a different network yet, I believe the new HD extender takes a static IP. I haven't gone into the screen to see if it also supports a gateway.

Anyone?

Robert

Yes, the HD extender provides a static IP option with user configurable gateway.

Does anyone know how the HD extender "discovers" servers on the network?

[MrD]

Originally Posted by electron

If the connection is TCP based, you could use a SSH client on the remote subnet to connect to an SSH server on the SageTV server subnet to bypass this restriction. The SSH server could be installed on the SageTV server, the client would have to run on a machine which is on the same subnet as the MVP. How about that Rube Goldberg setup

Of course this is just an idea, I haven't tried this.

Or just create a VPN between the two networks, make sure client and server are on the same subnet.

[electron]

Just? I would love to know how you can keep 2 machines on 2 different networks, in 2 different locations on the same subnet using a vpn tunnel. I love learning about this stuff.

[valnar]

Originally Posted by electron

Just? I would love to know how you can keep 2 machines on 2 different networks, in 2 different locations on the same subnet using a vpn tunnel. I love learning about this stuff.

Two Cisco routers doing L2TPv3 or some kind of bridging over a GRE tunnel may be possible. I've never tried it but I'm sure I could get it to work. Gotta have two Cisco routers to make it happen though. $$$

-Robert

[MrD]

Originally Posted by electron

Just? I would love to know how you can keep 2 machines on 2 different networks, in 2 different locations on the same subnet using a vpn tunnel. I love learning about this stuff.

That would be the "Virtual" "Private" bit.

http://openvpn.net/howto.html

Read up on the bridging part.

* the VPN needs to be able to handle non-IP protocols such as IPX,
* you are running applications over the VPN which rely on network broadcasts (such as LAN games), or
* you would like to allow browsing of Windows file shares across the VPN without setting up a Samba or WINS server.

"By bridging a physical ethernet NIC with an OpenVPN-driven TAP interface at two separate locations, it is possible to logically merge both ethernet networks, as if they were a single ethernet subnet."

[electron]

Cool, never seen this implemented before (and I have seen many VPN setups). Will have to take a closer look at it, thanks for the info.

[jonopelgt]

Originally Posted by MrD

Or just create a VPN between the two networks, make sure client and server are on the same subnet.

Its not an option to resubnet my VPN. My VPN system is up an running for serveral years accross 6 sites with with approximately 45 hosts, and a private VoIP Asterisk telecom system. It supports several other application that cannot be disturbed. I have put in Hundreds of hours worth of setup/configuration time.

[cslatt]

Originally Posted by jonopelgt

Its not an option to resubnet my VPN. My VPN system is up an running for serveral years accross 6 sites with with approximately 45 hosts, and a private VoIP Asterisk telecom system. It supports several other application that cannot be disturbed. I have put in Hundreds of hours worth of setup/configuration time.

**WARNING - GUESSWORK**
You're going to need some way to make the traffic arriving at the Sage Server look like it is coming from within the Subnet - a tunnel or proxy is probably your best bet. Any time the Sage Server sees traffic coming from a non-local subnet it tries to negotiate an encrypted protocol because it is going to prompt the connecting application for credentials (example - Placeshifter. If you connect from within the same subnet, it doesn't prompt you for credentials, but if you connect from outside the subnet it does). The HD Extender doesn't supported that encrypted protocol (because it wasn't built to be used from anywhere except within the LAN that the server is on) so it doesn't support them. Your best bet - setup a proxy application on another PC in the same subnet as the SageTV server and have it redirect Sage traffic to the SageTV server - then the traffic will look to the SageTV box as if it is coming from a local address.

[Skaught]

At work I deploy hundreds of Mikrotik routers. They will build a L2 ethernet bridged tunnel over any IP network. Internet or other wise. EOIP tunnels are what I use but it also supports pppoe and other methods.

I have not tried the MVP over them but we use other UDP broadcast based apps all the time and they work flawlessly. I can browse network neighborhood between computers that are 1200km apart.

A pair of Mikrotik routerboards with enclosures would be <$200 I think.

[stanger89]

Or you could just get an HD200 which supports this out of the box. And is a much better extender to boot.