HD Component capture with H.264 Encode

[stanger89]

Weird, I guess I figured they'd just make BDA drivers for it or something, not that I care, I'm not interested in VMC anyway.

I really hope Sage adds some significant intelligence to Sage to handle recording rates for this thing, it would be kind of dumb to record SD @ 25Mbps.

[btrcp2000]

I would call it "Thank God I Didn't Actually Click Buy at the R5000 Site This Morning Since I Literally Just got 5C'ed Last Night And Don't Want To Ship a 3 Ton Motorola DCP501 Back and Forth to Nextcomwireless"

Whew.

By the way, what does it say about me that I woke up sad this morning because my firewire STBs quit working when I knew all along it would happen eventually? At least they left me ESPNHD for the time being, who knows why?

[jrog]

Originally Posted by mikesm

Actually, according to the thread at TGB, ChrisL01 and bunch of others agree with me that is is highly unlikely this will work in MCE or VMC. H.264 support just isn't there, and I don't think MSFT wants to enable this kind of functionality since they want everyon to use this gelded cablecard implementation in VMC.

Good point. I may be wrong, but I don't think that the extenders, like the 360, can play H.264 video from Media Center. The 360 can play it from the dashboard, but that is not the same thing. It must be that Media Center, at it's core, is designed heavily around MPEG2, and that is wrapped in dvr-ms, and as such it would take a lot to get to the point of supporting H.264.

Originally Posted by mikesm

If you want this capability, you'll have to look at Sage and other solutions to use it.

Yet another reason I'm glad I bought Sage and not VMC.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jrog

Good point. I may be wrong, but I don't think that the extenders, like the 360, can play H.264 video from Media Center. The 360 can play it from the dashboard, but that is not the same thing. It must be that Media Center, at it's core, is designed heavily around MPEG2, and that is wrapped in dvr-ms, and as such it would take a lot to get to the point of supporting H.264.

They're going to have to do something to support the DirecTV device, I think all the DirecTV HD is H.264.

[fyodor]

WRT to the earlier poster's comments about DRM, the reason the OCUR devices DRM their files is that the cable providers require it as a prerequisite for certifying the adapters for use in decrypting encrypted cable transmissions. There's no certification necessary here because the analog component outputs aren't encrypted. This isn't fundamentally different than any of Hauppauge's other analog capture cards or the Blackmagic cards that capture but do not compress analog HD signals. None of those devices insert DRM into the files they create.

[btrcp2000]

Can they encrypt analog? I remember twenty some years ago that the Back to the Future videotapes were one of the first that couldn't be copied, but no idea how they did it.

[Crashless]

Originally Posted by btrcp2000

Can they encrypt analog? I remember twenty some years ago that the Back to the Future videotapes were one of the first that couldn't be copied, but no idea how they did it.

You're thinking about Macrovision. It messed with the vertical blanking interval to make it difficult for consumer VHS machines to copy the signal. AFAIK, there are no current implementations of this in cable or satellite STBs, and it is impossible to implement on the broadcast side without messing with a lot of things.

[GollyJer]

Originally Posted by Addict

This is the winner, IMO! In fact, "SageCast" would be a great name for a series of products...

SageCast HD Recorder (the product we've just been teased with)
SageCast HD Player (the current HD extender)
SageCast Media Center (the hardware equivalent of our current server software? Hmmmmm...!)

I like the name because it's memorable. The STX HD-100 (or whatever it is) is great for a model number, but not a brandable and marketable name.

I really like these names also.
SageTV is the company.
SageCast is the brand.
Sweet.

However, I'd change the "Player" to "Extender" and make a separate "Player".
SageCast HD Recorder (Product that started this thread)
SageCast HD Extender (the STX HD-100)
SageCast HD Player (SageCast Extender/BluRay Player combo)
SageCast Media Center (Hardware version of current SageTV Media Center)

If these things "just worked" and with the default UI and Sage continued to allow full STV/STVi customizations if you had your own SageTV Media Center server they could conquer the "common" person market AND keep us system tinkerers happy. I wish Sage all the best.

I can't wait for the SageCast HD Recorder & HD Player!!

[mikejaner]

They used Macrovision, which is signals in the video signal that would throw off the brightness of the screen. Most tapes I remember would make the signal go light and dark as the movie went on, making it virtually unwatchable. Unless this device is designed to ignore Macrovision, I can see the same issue happening here for some people. I don't know if they use it on Component output of cable boxes though.


[EDIT]
Opps, Crasshless got it before me....

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Crashless

You're thinking about Macrovision. It messed with the vertical blanking interval to make it difficult for consumer VHS machines to copy the signal. AFAIK, there are no current implementations of this in cable or satellite STBs, and it is impossible to implement on the broadcast side without messing with a lot of things.

It's not Macrovision but that's one way they scramble analog cable channels. They remove one of the sync pulses from the signal so your TV can't tune the channel. Then if you're subscribed to the channel the cable box will reinsert the sync pulse so it may be tuned. Kind of tricky.

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

It's not Macrovision but that's one way they scramble analog cable channels. They remove one of the sync pulses from the signal so your TV can't tune the channel. Then if you're subscribed to the channel the cable box will reinsert the sync pulse so it may be tuned. Kind of tricky.

A pointless aside, when I was a little kid I would watch scrambed Wrestling PPVs and I always wondered why the picture would momentarily go unscrambled when the pyrotechnics would go off. Then, many years later, when I took some classes on NTSC in college I figured out that if the first and last pixel of the horizontal lines were bright enough it would make a big enough dip in the signal that the TV would lock onto those as sync pulses. The more you know

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by btrcp2000

I would call it "Thank God I Didn't Actually Click Buy at the R5000 Site This Morning Since I Literally Just got 5C'ed Last Night And Don't Want To Ship a 3 Ton Motorola DCP501 Back and Forth to Nextcomwireless"

Whew.

By the way, what does it say about me that I woke up sad this morning because my firewire STBs quit working when I knew all along it would happen eventually? At least they left me ESPNHD for the time being, who knows why?

Well, this is not as good as an R5000-HD. The R5000-HD will deliver you the original MPEG2 stream, without going through an additional D->A and A->D conversion. The quality should be better, and you will get the video in it's native resolution, 720p, 1080i, 480i, etc...

Additionally, the R5000-HD on cable will give you the recording in MPEG2 format, which is much easier to get working on most video cards than h.264.

I have a cable R5000-HD, and it works VERY well. I will probably get one of the HDDVR units though and hook it to a 2nd HD box to have a 2nd full HD programming enabled tuner, but my encoder merit will always prefer the R5000-HD.

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by mikesm

Well, this is not as good as an R5000-HD. The R5000-HD will deliver you the original MPEG2 stream, without going through an additional D->A and A->D conversion. The quality should be better, and you will get the video in it's native resolution, 720p, 1080i, 480i, etc...

Additionally, the R5000-HD on cable will give you the recording in MPEG2 format, which is much easier to get working on most video cards than h.264.

I have a cable R5000-HD, and it works VERY well. I will probably get one of the HDDVR units though and hook it to a 2nd HD box to have a 2nd full HD programming enabled tuner, but my encoder merit will always prefer the R5000-HD.

I'm hoping that these units will have the ability to detect the resolution and automatically capture it as such.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

I'm hoping that these units will have the ability to detect the resolution and automatically capture it as such.

It can only do this if the STB outputs native format. All the Motorola STB's lock the output format, though you can select which format you want. Ironic, since my R5000-HD equipped Moto box also lets me capture the native digital stream in native resolution. :-)

I think the SA boxes let you select native, but Moto does not.

[fyodor]

I think that this is a limitation of the cable boxes, which, as I understand it, do not switch output resolution. So, if the box is set to 1080i, it rescales any content to 1080i.

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

I'm hoping that these units will have the ability to detect the resolution and automatically capture it as such.

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by mikesm

It can only do this if the STB outputs native format. All the Motorola STB's lock the output format, though you can select which format you want. Ironic, since my R5000-HD equipped Moto box also lets me capture the native digital stream in native resolution. :-)

I think the SA boxes let you select native, but Moto does not.

My moto from Verizon, switches the output res. I remember because I specifically turned it off in their offline menu when I first got it. Whenever I was watching an HD channel, then switched back to an SD one, my TV would flash black, then come back and indicate that it was running in the new lower mode.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by fyodor

I think that this is a limitation of the cable boxes, which, as I understand it, do not switch output resolution. So, if the box is set to 1080i, it rescales any content to 1080i.

SA cable boxes such as SA3250HD and SA8300HD allow you to set up what output resolutions you want. You can then set the box to convert everything to one resolution or passthrough the res of the original broadcast.

[lobosrul]

On the box scaling issue: I remember on my Scientific Atlanta, one had to hold down some buttons when turning it on to access a menu to change scaling. One option was native.

Hopefully, the bitrate can be changed per recording just like SDTV analog capture cards can be in Sage right now. Also, customized scaling and maybe even cropping would be nice.

The really ironic thing about the "industry" being worried and sue-happy about this device, is once I get my hands on one of these I will probably sign up for DirecTV instead of going with free-OTA TV only.

[bcjenkins]

Are there any options for H.264?

B

[morikaweb]

Originally Posted by mikesm

It can only do this if the STB outputs native format. All the Motorola STB's lock the output format, though you can select which format you want. Ironic, since my R5000-HD equipped Moto box also lets me capture the native digital stream in native resolution. :-)

I think the SA boxes let you select native, but Moto does not.

This must be a limitation to moto cable box's only. My *C moto box allows me to chose native output mode via a button on the front panel.