HD DVD dead?

[lobosrul]

Paramount jumping the HD-DVD ship? http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/07/p...e-hd-dvd-door/

If so, then that leaves Universal as the only major sticking to HD-DVD.

[Dekard]

Wow, this is a quick end to the format wars..

[stanger89]

If Paramount really jumps, and if this truely is the end, it's a far more precipitous end than I ever imagined.

[Crashless]

Hmm...

Official denial here:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/08/p...-format-curre/

[mike_15]

I hadn't seen this out there yet.
But why do I need either?

I have a 720p 50"
to see the resolution benefit of the 1080p you have to be around 5-7' from the TV.
my normal seating is 12-16' from the TV
THX screen Setup

I know that a widescreen DVD only has 480 resolution, but if I compare that to OTA HD. It still looks plenty good from where I'm sitting. perhaps If I had a 100" TV it would matter.

So what does either format get me?

[flavius]

The porn industry is going blue-ray only - if that doesn't do it ...

[jm9843]

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...ing_Focus/1366

Providing our best peek yet at HD DVD's post-Warner strategy, Toshiba today announced lower prices for its third-generation HD DVD players and plans for a shift in marketing focus for the format.

Calling price "the most critical determinant" in reaching mainstream consumers, Toshiba announced an immediate drop in the MSRP for its complete line of third-gen HD DVD players, pricing its 1080i entry-model HD-A3 player at $149.99, the HD-A30 at $199.99, and the high-end HD-A35 at $299.99.

[sleonard]

That's about the last chance/hope HD-DVD has. Pricing the players drastically below the competition is an excellent strategy, if average Joe Consumer owns 3 HD-DVD players for every Blu-Ray player it will cause studios to reconsider.

S

[flavius]

I wouldn't take one, if it was free. Seriously.

[Arioch5]

Originally Posted by flavius

I wouldn't take one, if it was free. Seriously.

Wow, biased much? Heck I'd take either one for free. However, I wouldn't (and haven't) pay for either format currently.

Even if you think Blue ray is the way to go (seem like it's going to win) how could you ignore the recent press release about the 2.0 Profile? If it were just new features that's one thing. Lack of support on new titles is unacceptable.

Unlike HD DVD, which mandated features such as local storage, a second video and audio decoder for picture-in-picture, and a network connection from the very beginning, the companies behind Blu-ray took a different approach. Initial hardware players lacked these capabilities in order to keep costs down.

None of the Profile 1.0 players can be upgraded to Profile 1.1, which was finalized recently, with the exception of the PlayStation 3 -- whose update arrived in mid-December. Likewise, Profile 2.0 is expected to arrive in October bringing Internet connectivity that Profile 1.1 players lack.

Representatives at the Blu-ray booth at CES told BetaNews that the PlayStation 3 is currently the only player they would recommend, due to upcoming changes to the platform. But Pioneer, Samsung, Panasonic and Sony have all been selling standalone Blu-ray players to customers.

In order to allay confusion, the BDA has adopted special labels that will be placed on Blu-ray movies. Those with a "Bonus View" sticker will require Profile 1.1 players, while those with "BD Live" will require Profile 2.0.

In addition, the BD-J interactivity layer, based on Java, has continued to evolve since the introduction of Blu-ray Profile 1.0. This means that early players may have a buggy implementation and perhaps more importantly, they are not powerful enough to play the latest films properly.

When BetaNews asked developers of BD Live whether they were concerned about a backlash from early adopters who supported the format from the beginning, we were told: "They knew what they were getting into."

http://www.betanews.com/article/Blur...nto/1199841379

As someone who owned a Sony Memory stick camera before they changed the memory stick standard (not backwards compatible) I know they'll throw compatibility to the wind. I think I'll just wait until I'm sure everything is set in stone. Hopefully, I'll be buying/downloading digital HD movies before this thing is decided and I can just skip both of these formats. Heck, I can't imagine anyone buying a blue ray player before October 2008 with this announcement. Hows that for encouraging new sales?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Arioch5

Wow, biased much? Heck I'd take either one for free. However, I wouldn't (and haven't) pay for either format currently.

This is coming from someone who thinks HD DVD was the "better" format:

While "over the top" a bit, I agree with the sentiment, at this point I wouldn't go buy an HD DVD player, no would I recommend anyone go buy an HD DVD player, which I think is what flavius was getting at.

At this point there's really nothing Toshiba can do, it's out of their hands, they can price players as they wish, but losing Warner isn't something they can overcome with lower prices.

Even if you think Blue ray is the way to go (seem like it's going to win) how could you ignore the recent press release about the 2.0 Profile? If it were just new features that's one thing. Lack of support on new titles is unacceptable.

As I understand it, it's just features, 2.0 discs should run on non-2.0 players. I could be missing something but that's how I understand it. And as for the 2.0 features, I've got no interest in internet connectivity. I've seen that article but there's some nuances that it misses.

There are some good players out there, notably the Panasonic BD30, but it lacks decoding of TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, so it's out for me. The BD50 and Pioneer 05FD should be good players.

[Arioch5]

Originally Posted by stanger89

As I understand it, it's just features, 2.0 discs should run on non-2.0 players. I could be missing something but that's how I understand it. And as for the 2.0 features, I've got no interest in internet connectivity. I've seen that article but there's some nuances that it misses.

If it's true that you can always play back disk then it's not a big deal I agree. What gets me is the line that they can't guarantee older hardware will play back disk in the future.

You knew the features when you bought the player, but if that extends to having choppy playback on future titles. Well that's just not acceptable to me. If they can guarantee that I'm much closer to buying an HD player. If they can't, I can't possibly buy anything before Oct.

[stanger89]

I don't think they can guarantee that even on players shipped after October. I think the real issue is primarilly that early players just didn't have the BD-J VM implemented very well and/or didn't have as much power to run that VM as they should have. BD-J has been in the specs since the beginning AFAIK and that seems to be the thing that's been causing problems.

[Arioch5]

Ouch so you don't think the October date changes anything as far as future compatibility? I have to admit I'm not sure what the issue is here. When you say not enough power, is that indicating that it's the cheaper models that might have issues?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Arioch5

Ouch so you don't think the October date changes anything as far as future compatibility?

Well if you get a 2.0 player you should be able to do the Online stuff ("BDLive"), and if you get a 1.1 you should be able to do PIP ("BonusView"!).

There's two levels/types of compatibility, the first, most obvious is feature compatibility based on profile.

The second (probably more important) is "compatiblity" based on BD-J. Remember BD-J (Blu-ray's alternative to HDi) is really just a full Java VM. As discs come out I'm sure there will continue to be problems found in each player's BD-J VM, requiring updates.

I have to admit I'm not sure what the issue is here. When you say not enough power, is that indicating that it's the cheaper models that might have issues?

The problems so far seem to be with discs that make use of the BD-J features. I don't know if it's horsepower for the VM or what. But BD-J has been in the spec since the beginning as far as I know so I don't really see that a BonusView or BDLive player brings anything that guarantees better BD-J performance.

FWIW, if I remember the forum discussion right, the Panasonic DMP-BD30 (Profile 1.1 player) handles BD-J discs about as well as the PS3.

And FWIW2, I'm not sure how optimistic I am about the future of Blu-ray, even if it has "won". HD DVD is basically in a completed state, not perfect, but the issues seem to be known. There seem to be a lot of unknowns with Blu-ray and the loss of competition from HD DVD raises some concerns in my mind, most are hard to put into words.

FWIW3, as far as what I've seen, if you don't care about onboard decoding of TrueHD or DTS-HD MA or BDLive, the Pany BD30 seems to be about as good as it gets. If you care about onboard decoding of TrueHD or DTS-HD MA, the Pioneer 05FD or BD50 look like the best choices, and the BD50 looks to be the first "complete" player (BDLive plus onboard decoding).

[Arioch5]

Thanks for the info! You're always full of useful insight Stanger. Although, I'm still pulling for something like the VideoGiants. (http://www.musicgiants.com/VG_store.html)

If I can get HD videos in sage legally at the price of $15/movie who needs distribution media.

[stanger89]

Yeah, the day of the Warner announcement, BestBuy was having their 10-free BD offer, so I spent a couple days doing research on which player.

End result, I don't have one yet

I'm really hoping XstreamHD goes somewhere. They promise/suggest better-than-BD quality (80Mbps peak rate, lossless 7.1 audio).

[Jesse]

With all this in mind, would a software player not make more sense? Presumably they can be patched as necessary to insure they do not become obsolete. I know plenty of folks are unhappy with PDVD, but there are also plenty that are happy. Hopefully the Arcsoft player will induce cyberlink to make the product better.

Does anyone know of any reviews/comparisons of pq between PDVD and a standalone player? I would really like to know how close they are.

Jesse

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Jesse

With all this in mind, would a software player not make more sense? Presumably they can be patched as necessary to insure they do not become obsolete. I know plenty of folks are unhappy with PDVD, but there are also plenty that are happy. Hopefully the Arcsoft player will induce cyberlink to make the product better.

That's actually a really tough question, and IMO depends greatly on the current state of your hardware and which studios are important to you.

The simple state of things is the currently available software players are completely pathetic. Even if you have all the "infrastructure" (CPU/graphics card) in place to support BD/HD DVD playback, it's still about a bare minimum $300 to get into just Blu-ray, it's $400 to go "purple".

In that price range I'd be hard pressed to recommend going the PC over the standalone. I suppose you could look at it as it will get better, but still.

Me, I'm not even considering the software route because I basically need to build an whole new PC to do HD optical, so it's way more cost effective to go standalones.

My standing recommendation today is to just get a standalone. Maybe if Arcsoft ever releases Totalmedia Theater (or whatever they're calling it) things will change, but until then...

[Polypro]

My pic quality is awesome. I'm very pleased with the LG/PDVD combo. I have had 0 problems with any HD DVD or Blu-ray title...now a regular DVD with X-Protect and the Sage Player on the other hand...

P