Questions about which sagetv product to try

[merrypig]

Hey all,

Have some questions about what is and isn't possible. Am looking to do the trial shortly but not sure what pieces to try to do what I want. Can anyone answer the following (or point me to the right place to ask)

Q1 - SageMC is a product that includes the TV PVR part plus other media functionality? I don't need to buy sageTV AND sageMC?

Q2 - What captioning support is provided for
- recorded videos
- live tv
- dvd playback
- hauppauge pvr250/pvr500 recorded files with embedded captions

I'd prefer not to use srt files if possible.

Q3 - Can a client playback DVD files ripped to a remote harddrive?

Feature list says 'local dvd playback' which seems to imply it won't do it over the network?

Q4 - Can sagemc run under WHS (home server)? Anyone known issues?

Q5 - If already have a mediamvp product, do I just need a client license for a mvp to use it with sage, or do I have to buy something else first?

[ Store says the client license is just a key, so not clear if hte software is included to load onto the mvp or not ]

Q6 - If I want to redesign the gui, do I have to buy the studio dev kit as well or can you tweak the interface via text files/editors ?

Q7 - Is girder 3.xx supported or only girder 4.xx for the sage plugin?


Thanks.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by merrypig

Q1 - SageMC is a product that includes the TV PVR part plus other media functionality? I don't need to buy sageTV AND sageMC?

SageMC is a custom interface (STV file + its associated files) to be used with SageTV. SageTV is the product sold by, well, SageTV & includes all the media support in the core product. SageMC provides a different UI and different capabilities compared to the default UI.

Q2 - What captioning support is provided for
- recorded videos
- live tv
- dvd playback
- hauppauge pvr250/pvr500 recorded files with embedded captions

I'd prefer not to use srt files if possible.

Q3 - Can a client playback DVD files ripped to a remote harddrive?

Feature list says 'local dvd playback' which seems to imply it won't do it over the network?

I'll leave CC for someone else, but there is mention of it in an appendix of the PDF manual.

Commercial DVDs have to be played in a local DVD drive and cannot be streamed to other clients. Hard drive based DVDs can be played across the network, but a PC client has to have direct access to the files, so UNC paths would have to be used for the import dir. Note that Placeshifter cannot play DVDs, but extenders can play hard drive based DVDs. There's an Appendix in the manual for this.

Q4 - Can sagemc run under WHS (home server)? Anyone known issues?

If you mean the custom STV, check its topic in the customization forum.

Q5 - If already have a mediamvp product, do I just need a client license for a mvp to use it with sage, or do I have to buy something else first?

[ Store says the client license is just a key, so not clear if hte software is included to load onto the mvp or not ]

You just need an extender license if you already have an MVP; support is already built into the core server product... so of course you need a server license too. See the related Appendix in the PDF manual for more details.

Q6 - If I want to redesign the gui, do I have to buy the studio dev kit as well or can you tweak the interface via text files/editors ?

There is a downloadable Studio manual. Studio is included as part of SageTV; it is not a separate purchase.

- Andy

[merrypig]

Thanks Opus4;

Would this be the right software combination for my setup...

WHS Server
3 remote pc's / laptops
1 media mvp

Of the machines, in all likelihood only one would ever be in use at any one time.

So would I just need to acquire

1x sageTV MC 6.3 license
1x placeshifter license ( for when I'm on the road and viewing over the net)
1x mediamvp license
1x client license ( to use on the local network pc's to watch with )

Are the client/placeshifter licenses per machine or concurrent uses? Ie I can install the client license on all my machines but only one can be used at a time?

I don't see a special WHS "media server" license on the store despite there being a seperate download /trial for it? Do you just buy a sagetv key and use it with the whs server download?

What is the difference between a placeshifter product and a client?

The placeshifter link (http://www.sagetv.com/placeshifter.html) shows two screenshots with video + music so it seems to suggest that it does music and other media too but my impression is that placeshifter is just a tv streaming ability, whereas the client would give full media access ?

If I buy the client and want to access live tv remotely over the internet, would I also need a placeshifter license ?

And also, if I buy the full sagetv MC and install on WHS, I don't need another client license to be able to use the display from the WHS to watch media/dvds etc?

Thanks for your help, I'll go grab a copy of the manuals. Just downloaded the trials so I'll try and answer what I can anyway. Have been reading the WHS threads too so it's starting to solidify a little.

Cheers

[GKusnick]

Q4: There's a version of the SageTV product (aka SageTV Media Center) that runs on WHS, if that's what you're asking. As Andy indicated, on these forums the word "SageMC" refers to a custom skin, not to the SageTV product.

[merrypig]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

Q4: There's a version of the SageTV product (aka SageTV Media Center) that runs on WHS, if that's what you're asking. As Andy indicated, on these forums the word "SageMC" refers to a custom skin, not to the SageTV product.

Aha! Thanks that helps

[sainswor99]

Originally Posted by merrypig

Thanks Opus4;

Would this be the right software combination for my setup...

WHS Server
3 remote pc's / laptops
1 media mvp

Of the machines, in all likelihood only one would ever be in use at any one time.

So would I just need to acquire

1x sageTV MC 6.3 license
1x placeshifter license ( for when I'm on the road and viewing over the net)
1x mediamvp license
1x client license ( to use on the local network pc's to watch with )

Are the client/placeshifter licenses per machine or concurrent uses? Ie I can install the client license on all my machines but only one can be used at a time?

I don't see a special WHS "media server" license on the store despite there being a seperate download /trial for it? Do you just buy a sagetv key and use it with the whs server download?

What is the difference between a placeshifter product and a client?

The placeshifter link (http://www.sagetv.com/placeshifter.html) shows two screenshots with video + music so it seems to suggest that it does music and other media too but my impression is that placeshifter is just a tv streaming ability, whereas the client would give full media access ?

If I buy the client and want to access live tv remotely over the internet, would I also need a placeshifter license ?

And also, if I buy the full sagetv MC and install on WHS, I don't need another client license to be able to use the display from the WHS to watch media/dvds etc?

Thanks for your help, I'll go grab a copy of the manuals. Just downloaded the trials so I'll try and answer what I can anyway. Have been reading the WHS threads too so it's starting to solidify a little.

Cheers

Placeshifter and Client can be a little confusing:

Placeshifter (and the media extenders) use a concurrent licensing schema; Client is a per-seat license
Placeshifter can be used over the Internet and as a LAN client; Client can only be used on the LAN.
Placeshifter offers most of the core features of Client; the major difference is DVD playback, as well as tweaking codecs for playback (both only available on Client).

Unless you're planning on watching DVD's on your network PC's, you really only need a license for the server, and 1 license for Placeshifter/Media MVP (assuming you don't run into concurrency issues).

HTH,
Stu

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by merrypig

TWould this be the right software combination for my setup...

WHS Server
3 remote pc's / laptops
1 media mvp

Of the machines, in all likelihood only one would ever be in use at any one time.

So would I just need to acquire

1x sageTV MC 6.3 license
1x placeshifter license ( for when I'm on the road and viewing over the net)
1x mediamvp license
1x client license ( to use on the local network pc's to watch with )

Are the client/placeshifter licenses per machine or concurrent uses? Ie I can install the client license on all my machines but only one can be used at a time?

Placeshifter & Extender licenses are concurrent and are really the same type of license -- if you disconnect one of these types of clients, another can connect elsewhere. SageTV Client uses a per-PC license.

What is the difference between a placeshifter product and a client?

There is a SageTV FAQ entry for this -- see my sig for a quick link to the FAQs, or see the header bar of each forum page.

The placeshifter link (http://www.sagetv.com/placeshifter.html) shows two screenshots with video + music so it seems to suggest that it does music and other media too but my impression is that placeshifter is just a tv streaming ability, whereas the client would give full media access ?

All the SageTV clients can play the different types of media, though not all can play DVDs.

If I buy the client and want to access live tv remotely over the internet, would I also need a placeshifter license ?

Yes, they are different types of licenses. (But as mentioned above, PS license == extender license)

- Andy

[Khristopher]

@ MerryPig

This is a pretty basic way to think of it, but hopefully it will make a little more sense.

SageMC would be the equivalent of taking the BTV Viewscape, reskinning it, and adding more features.

A Sage STV file is essentially a replacement interface for SageTV. SageMC is an STV file.

Additional features such as ComSkip and Auto-Compress are STVi files and are called "Imports" which baiscally import new functionality into the default STV.

The SageMC STV has things like ComSkip and Auto-Compress already in it and SageMC imports are designed only to be used with SageMC and vice versa.

The Sage Placeshifter and MVP are both comparable to the way Remote Desktop works for Windows. You run everything on the server, but the audio and video outputs are redirected to the local machine.

The Sage Client is a piece of software which runs on the local machine and connects back to the Server. If you are connecting your Sage Media server directly to a TV and running Sage from it, you're essentially running both the Client and the Server on the same machine. Otherwise, (in a WHS installation for example), you would have the Sage Service running on the WHS box, and connecting to it via Sage Client installed on a 2nd machine. The Client software is where you install the STV and STVi files.

Hope that helps (and someone correct me if I've got anything wrong).

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by merrypig

Q2 - What captioning support is provided for
- recorded videos
- live tv
- dvd playback
- hauppauge pvr250/pvr500 recorded files with embedded captions

I'd prefer not to use srt files if possible.

I think everyone else has answered most of your questions, and any more info could just start confusing you, so I'll hold off on those for now.

But regarding Q2,

Captions in Sage work this way. The tuner card that you use needs to embed the captions into the MPEG recordings as it records them as CCinDVD captions. Currently, only the Hauppauge family of cards include this feature in their drivers. So, as long as you have the correct drivers for the cards, and maybe a registry edit for the PVR250, you will get CC embedded into the recording. That works for LiveTV recordings and stored recordings that you watch later.

Now, you need to display those captions. For that, you need a DVD-capable video decoder. Examples include nVidia Purevideo and WinDVD and PowerDVD's included decoders. With one of those decoders, you can view the embedded captions. Sage's built in decoder can't view them since it isn't DVD-capable.

For DVD playback, there can be two sets of captions, both embedded CC and subtitles. Both can be controlled via Sage.

You mentioned "recorded videos", if those are non-mpeg files, then Sage can't do anything regardings captions natively. There is a plugin for Sage that will let you display .smi files as captions for those files. I heard that that may be updated to do .srt files as well in the future, but for now, you can convert .srt files to .smi and then use them with the plugin.

In the long term, digital recordings have digital CC embedded into them. I've played with the WinDVD and PowerDVD decoders and they both will attempt to display the digital CC. They don't work 100% yet, but it is the first step in getting digital CC working.

[merrypig]

Thanks for the responses Khris + ke6guj.

FYI Khris, I mostly understand the components but was unclear on how the parts get licensed. The main confusion seemed to be coming from talk of SageMC and SageTV MC and not actually being the same thing. Once that was clarified it made more sense.

For example, SageTV is sold and referenced as STV, SageTV and Sage Media Center and SageTV Media Center. Probably from evolution and helpful users abbreviating, but none the less confusing when reading the FAQ and finding it didn't match up to the store offerings.. As another example, there is talk of a WHS media _server_ product that has it's own webpage and download but nowhere is there a buy link on that page and Media Server didn't show up in browse all products on the store page.

Not meaning to be picky, but just suggesting that perhaps with the additional new products someone needs to go back through and review faqs and product pages to make sure they're consistant? Or I could just be slow today. Equally possible

For Ke6guj,

Thanks for the comments too. In case you weren't aware I actually wrote the mpg2srt program and helped get captions added to the other product in terms of supporting the embedded captioning from hauppauge. Having read the manual it looks like it should work just the same as it does now. Useful to note though that hte steps in the manual are outdated for the new hauppauge drivers. You no longer need to set the InsertCCinDVD registry key as it's automatically enabled by default if you set a dvd format stream. I suspect the key gets set and does absolutely nothing

I saw the caption plugin thread too and it's nice to see such controls over the formatting and so on. I'm a little curious how the no overlay + color keying will affect me as I do need to use captions. I do prefer overlay output, but not clear how the UI will be impacted if color keying is not enabled. Not sure many folks use color keying lately preferring alpha blend instead if it works on the overlay output pipe.


WRT to "recorded videos". One thing I'd love to get support for is the divx 6 container with the caption stream supported. I have tools I'm happy with to create divx6 conversions from dvd with captions that can be toggled, but have not found anything except divx's player that will handle them. I can use h264 /autoxvid if need be but the gui/interface isn't as smooth as I want to mess with so isn't my preferred option yet. I need to look at handbrakeCLi but I really would like to keep captions dynamic rather than burned in. (whimsical reasoning I know).

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by merrypig

FYI Khris, I mostly understand the components but was unclear on how the parts get licensed. The main confusion seemed to be coming from talk of SageMC and SageTV MC and not actually being the same thing. Once that was clarified it made more sense.

For example, SageTV is sold and referenced as STV, SageTV and Sage Media Center and SageTV Media Center. Probably from evolution and helpful users abbreviating, but none the less confusing when reading the FAQ and finding it didn't match up to the store offerings.. As another example, there is talk of a WHS media _server_ product that has it's own webpage and download but nowhere is there a buy link on that page and Media Server didn't show up in browse all products on the store page.

Yes, it can be confusing to new users, and to us old-timers when we try to help the newbies. All those various names get thrown around and mean different things to different people.

I often wonder if a better name could have been given to the SageMC mod when it was first developed. I know the reason behind the name, trying to show that it is trying to replicate the UI of Windows XP MCE in Sage, hence SageMC.

Actually found the mlbdude's first post on SageMC:

All, I am currently working on a new STV for SageTV. At this time I am calling it Sage Media Center. Yes, it is somewhat based on MS MCE. This is an STV I am putting together so that my wife will allow me to extract MCE from our front room . When it is done I will share with everyone. Some will not like it because it will probably oversimplify some things and you will be better off with one of the new "all in one" STV's. Others will like that it is simple.

Unfortunately, a couple months later SageTV started using the Media Center moniker as well.

In case you weren't aware I actually wrote the mpg2srt program and helped get captions added to the other product in terms of supporting the embedded captioning from hauppauge.

I knew that name sounded familiar to me, just couldn't place it.

Having read the manual it looks like it should work just the same as it does now. Useful to note though that hte steps in the manual are outdated for the new hauppauge drivers. You no longer need to set the InsertCCinDVD registry key as it's automatically enabled by default if you set a dvd format stream. I suspect the key gets set and does absolutely nothing

I know that CC with the PVR-500 doesn't require anything more that a newer driver and a DVD format stream (I'm the one who found out that the new PVR-150/500 drivers would let us do CC in Sage), but I don't have a 250 so I didn't know if the regedit was still required for it to do CC.

I saw the caption plugin thread too and it's nice to see such controls over the formatting and so on. I'm a little curious how the no overlay + color keying will affect me as I do need to use captions. I do prefer overlay output, but not clear how the UI will be impacted if color keying is not enabled. Not sure many folks use color keying lately preferring alpha blend instead if it works on the overlay output pipe.

I'm pretty sure that they caption plugin's formatting options are more for displaying .smi captions, not the embedded captions. I do use the caption plugin to trigger my embedded captions, but the formatting options don't seem to make a difference. Overlay with color keying disabled look crappy to me, but I use VMR9 so I haven't messed with it a lot.

WRT to "recorded videos". One thing I'd love to get support for is the divx 6 container with the caption stream supported. I have tools I'm happy with to create divx6 conversions from dvd with captions that can be toggled, but have not found anything except divx's player that will handle them. I can use h264 /autoxvid if need be but the gui/interface isn't as smooth as I want to mess with so isn't my preferred option yet. I need to look at handbrakeCLi but I really would like to keep captions dynamic rather than burned in. (whimsical reasoning I know).

I'm wondering how much of this could be done with mplayer? Sage uses a customized version of mplayer to play mpeg4 content, and mplayer does do some captioning. Another Sage user figured out a way to enable CC on the placeshifter client by modding the mplayer settings. With that mod, he is able to display the embedded mpeg captions.

[merrypig]

I'm pretty sure that they caption plugin's formatting options are more for displaying .smi captions, not the embedded captions. I do use the caption plugin to trigger my embedded captions, but the formatting options don't seem to make a difference. Overlay with color keying disabled look crappy to me, but I use VMR9 so I haven't messed with it a lot.

Ah. Oh well, guess it uses the same MS line21 decoder's then. Bit disappointing but it's what I use now so I guess it'll do. I do hope I can avoid using vmr9 tho.

I'm wondering how much of this could be done with mplayer? Sage uses a customized version of mplayer to play mpeg4 content, and mplayer does do some captioning. Another Sage user figured out a way to enable CC on the placeshifter client by modding the mplayer settings. With that mod, he is able to display the embedded mpeg captions.

Hmm. Interesting. I admit, I get so little time to tinker these days I probably wouldn't bother with this unless it becomes mainstreamed but I'll read up on it. thanks for the pointer. I think though that you need more specific support to enable the divx captions. From what I've read it seems to pass the caption data back through the same filter instance and that seems to upset a lot of the automatic/scripted configurations. Divx seemed to make life awkward for some reason

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by merrypig

As another example, there is talk of a WHS media _server_ product that has it's own webpage and download but nowhere is there a buy link on that page and Media Server didn't show up in browse all products on the store page.

Since the software itself can be downloaded for free, all you're really buying from the store is the license key. The Windows and WHS versions use the same license keys, so that's why there isn't a separate SKU for the WHS version. Just download the WHS installer for testing and when you're ready to buy, get a Media Center license for it.

[merrypig]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

Since the software itself can be downloaded for free, all you're really buying from the store is the license key. The Windows and WHS versions use the same license keys, so that's why there isn't a separate SKU for the WHS version. Just download the WHS installer for testing and when you're ready to buy, get a Media Center license for it.

So if I want to use the WHS server to playback as well,

What would be the right combination of install/licenses
- whs installer only + media center license (this doesn't do playback on server right?)
- media center install + media center license (does this include playback? Not integrated with whs ?)
- whs installer + media center license + sage client license for whs+playback?

or something else?

[gplasky]

WHS is suppose to be a headless media server. You don't want to playback on there. That being said, the install of SageTV server will allow you to install it as a service (or a WHS plugin) and allow you to run it as a client on the same server. If you don run it as a service then it runs with the cient interface and you can watch on there. So your WHS install and SageTV server (Media Center) license should suffice.

Gerry

[Vaughn]

I am not confused about the plug-ins, skins, etc. But even after reading a couple of these threads, I can't say I have any idea of what to buy, install, etc.

I don't want a server, I don't want clients, I don't want shifters.... I want something to record TV shows and play media files on my computers. Seems simple to me.

With Vista I install nothing (VMC) and the same with XP MCE. Yet here I am with Sage and can't even figure out what I need for the same functionality on my boxes... So I would have to say that there must be something wrong with naming/advertising/FAQs.

I have even posted my config and the answer was 1 server license, 1 client. I have no idea how that is relevant to my setup. Now today is my first day researching these forums and I am sure I will figure it out, but it is confusing and it would be nice if there was some feature matrix or checklist to help decide what to put on each box...

I have 4 TVs each with its own Tuner, each with its own cable line. I have two more Dev boxes with tuners and cable too. Then I have about 4 other boxes with no tuners, but would like to use Sage as a standard interface for Divx/XVid, pitcures, etc, these may be clients I guess.

With MCE, I could map the Recorded TV directory from one box to another, so clients were not needed, just mappings. I guess you can't do this with Sage?

Anyways, I have my questions posted in other threads. I just wanted to second the notion that this complexity will be a real turnoff to the simple MCE crowd.

Vaughn

[sainswor99]

Originally Posted by Vaughn

I am not confused about the plug-ins, skins, etc. But even after reading a couple of these threads, I can't say I have any idea of what to buy, install, etc.

I don't want a server, I don't want clients, I don't want shifters.... I want something to record TV shows and play media files on my computers. Seems simple to me.

With Vista I install nothing (VMC) and the same with XP MCE. Yet here I am with Sage and can't even figure out what I need for the same functionality on my boxes... So I would have to say that there must be something wrong with naming/advertising/FAQs.

Hi Vaughn, if all you want to do is record something on your computer, you need one licence for SageTV Media Center.

http://store.sagetv.com/Merchant2/me...tegory_Code=SS

Originally Posted by Vaughn

I have even posted my config and the answer was 1 server license, 1 client. I have no idea how that is relevant to my setup. Now today is my first day researching these forums and I am sure I will figure it out, but it is confusing and it would be nice if there was some feature matrix or checklist to help decide what to put on each box...

I went looking on the forums for your config, and couldn't find it. Can you post the thread, or maybe clarify your posting below?

Originally Posted by Vaughn

I have 4 TVs each with its own Tuner, each with its own cable line. I have two more Dev boxes with tuners and cable too. Then I have about 4 other boxes with no tuners, but would like to use Sage as a standard interface for Divx/XVid, pitcures, etc, these may be clients I guess.

Do you mean you have 4 PC's with their own tuners + some dev boxes?

Originally Posted by Vaughn

With MCE, I could map the Recorded TV directory from one box to another, so clients were not needed, just mappings. I guess you can't do this with Sage?

You can, but then you can't use the client to manage all of the features of Sage (usch as marking an item as watched). To be honest, I'm confused by your question; you want the features of the client, but you don't want the client.

Originally Posted by Vaughn

Anyways, I have my questions posted in other threads. I just wanted to second the notion that this complexity will be a real turnoff to the simple MCE crowd.

Vaughn

[Polypro]

You need 1 SageTV Media Center license for 1 computer. This could be the main computer near your main TV, or one in a media closet in the basement. This computer will be the "server", and record/store/play all your media...if it's near a TV, you can watch on that TV. All your cable/antenna/sat feeds will hook to this machine's tuners. Think of it as the main VMC machine if you were using MS's product. For every other place (TV) where you want to watch what the "server" has, you need either: an "Extender" (a stand alone box hooked to Cat5...an Xbox in MS terms), a "Client" (another PC with the client software that gives you the full Sage UI and capabilities, hooked to Cat5...not available for MS VMC), or a "Place Shifter" (a smaller featured program used to mainly stream media...kinda like MS's WebGuide, on a computer).

P

[mickp]

Hey Vaughn,

I also went looking for other posts from you that describe your setup but couldn't find any.

Originally Posted by Vaughn

I don't want a server, I don't want clients, I don't want shifters.... I want something to record TV shows and play media files on my computers. Seems simple to me.

Quite simple if you want to reproduce what mce provides then you would get a sage server license for each tv. That probably wouldn't be the best way to go but if you want to limit your choices to what you're familiar with then go for it.

Originally Posted by Vaughn

With Vista I install nothing (VMC) and the same with XP MCE. Yet here I am with Sage and can't even figure out what I need for the same functionality on my boxes... So I would have to say that there must be something wrong with naming/advertising/FAQs.

Hmm. You had to install an operating system. With Sage you have a choice of platforms. Would you consider it normal to install a special version of Windows that is required to play halo? "Microsoft windows Halo Edition", available only as an oem product.

That said, I agree with you that the Sage site is confusing. I just took a look and couldn't find the work "Client" on the main page atm.

Originally Posted by Vaughn

I have even posted my config and the answer was 1 server license, 1 client. I have no idea how that is relevant to my setup. Now today is my first day researching these forums and I am sure I will figure it out, but it is confusing and it would be nice if there was some feature matrix or checklist to help decide what to put on each box...

I have 4 TVs each with its own Tuner, each with its own cable line. I have two more Dev boxes with tuners and cable too. Then I have about 4 other boxes with no tuners, but would like to use Sage as a standard interface for Divx/XVid, pitcures, etc, these may be clients I guess.

With MCE, I could map the Recorded TV directory from one box to another, so clients were not needed, just mappings. I guess you can't do this with Sage?

Anyways, I have my questions posted in other threads. I just wanted to second the notion that this complexity will be a real turnoff to the simple MCE crowd.

Vaughn

It seems like you might have missed the point that sage provides the softsled capability that you've been missing in mce.

If you want to put a tuner into a pc then you need the "Sage Media Center" product.

If you have multiple "Sage Media Center" boxes then they can be configured to work against the one shared database (one master Sage install with others sharing it's db). In this configuration the subservient "Sage Media Center" boxes work as network encoders and clients. The important thing to remember is that when you schedule recordings you don't need to manage which Sage box will record what show. This is coordinated by Sage.

Having multiple "Sage Media Center" computers each with tuners seems to be a fairly uncommon configuration, though it's nice to know it's possible. Most people choose to install a single "Server" aka "Sage Media Center" and put their tuners and storage into this box (or a nas if you prefer). It can be connected to a tv and works just like mce recording shows to disk.

NB: The whs option is still a "Sage Media Center" install. It's just packaged in a way that the installer will work conveniently on "Windows Home Server".

You can then add a client of one sort or another at each point where you want to view TV. These clients can all view live tv, access all media known to the Sage system(s) and manage recordings etc. The interface and functionality of a client is the same as that of the server. In a configured system it would be difficult imho to work out whether you were using the "Server" aka "Sage Media Center" or a client.

Clients come in various flavours. By the sound of things you'd be best to go with the "Sage TV Client" in places where you have pc's without tuners (assuming that these are windows boxes). The "Sage TV Client" is the same code as the "Sage Media Center" except that it's had the recording and serving code rem'd. Other options are to throw in an extender, either the SD or HD version. I'd personally relegate the "Placeshifter" client to a usb stick to use from the internet if you'd like to have that option. Others would disagree.

It seems that the main thing you need to decide is whether to consolidate all of your tuners into one "Server" box running "Sage Media Center" and place clients at strategic points on the network, configure multiple "Sage Media Center" boxes and leave your tuner cards distributed around the house or some combination of the two. Sage client licenses are cheaper than the "Sage Media Center" ones so this may help you to decide.

You can find more information on configuring sage in the manual.

Mick.

[Vaughn]

Yay, good info guys. Makes more sense now, probably could have been summed up like (not that I fully understand yet, but as an example of how my simple mind works):

PC with tuner = SageTV
PC without tuner = SageClient
Internet = PlaceShifter...

A little background on my "uncommon" setup. For a decade I have downloaded or Ripped the content I want to watch, put it on a share, now every TV and computer in the house can watch it (With NO media center of any kind).

Because of my home automation development, I wanted to support integration with MCE, Sage, etc. So I started adding tuner cards and playing. It also made sense that the computer in the bedroom had a tuner card so I could watch whatever live TV I wanted with a simple configuration. I however understand the concept of building a big server with 6 tuners, but that seems like so much more work building a box like that. If I have problems, the whole house loses its video then, where now if I shut one MCE down, Liz still has TV in her room, etc...

As for my other posts I was referring to, they were on CocoonTech where IVB sparked my interests again. Here is my configuration in detail:

2-PCs hooked to Plasmas. Used for Live TV, PC content, with tuner cards and TW cable line ran directly to them.

1-PC hooked to a Plasma. Used for Live TV, PC content, with tuner card and TW SA8300HD/coax out to the DVR card.

1-PC (bedside w/LCD). Used for Live TV, PC content, with tuner card and TW cable line ran directly to it.

2-Development PCs to integrate with HA, both with tuner cards and coax straight to them (no stb)

2 Laptops and 1 PC that are used often with NO tuner, but would like to run clients on them to watch what the other machines record.

So, 6 tuners in total. only 1 being fed by a HD STB, so I want the recorded HD content on that box to be available to the other 5.

So it sounds like I need 6 full licenses and 3 clients to fill out my system. And if I want to save money, I could consolodate a couple tuner cards into 1 box (which won't save me much because they are all different type of cards and interfaces (PCI, PCIe, and different brands) and I will probably need more hardware.

Anyways, I am uneducated in this area and just learning. I am not complaining or bashing Sage, just saying that this is all alot to take in and my ass could have used some nice guides, etc.

I really appriciate all the info and am working hard to learn Sage and hopefully interface it to vCrib in the end.

have to run, but loving the forums so far! Thanks guys!

Vaughn
www.vcrib.com