What features are important, or "make" a Movie Library?

[vvulture]

Originally Posted by 95TBird

Stanger:

1. I'd like to see front & back covers (Perhaps front only Icons with selectable large front & back upon right click ?)

2. Faster loading Icons (not sure how you would manage this, cashing ??)

3. Easier organization of sets / series (some kind of virtual folders with assignable Icon ?)

4. More flexible screen layout (I'm a MC16X9 user & to be honest the new version has me wishing ALL screens could be arranged like this!)

- Bruce

Hey TBird,
Basically what you have described is pretty much what My Movies can do.
Thats what we are wishing / hoping for.

cheers

[mkanet]

I've never used MyMovies. This might be a very stupid question, but what kind of benefit would any of this have for people who have moved on to HD-DVD / Blu-ray discs?

[vvulture]

Originally Posted by mkanet

I've never used MyMovies. This might be a very stupid question, but what kind of benefit would any of this have for people who have moved on to HD-DVD / Blu-ray discs?

No obvious benefit as far as i know...

[pat_smith1969]

I get where you are coming from Stanger... I hear your frustration. You have Sage running for you perfectly, it sounds. You have DVDProfiler running for you perfectly it sounds like.

I think a lot of us are not so lucky. Take my case for example. I am fairly new to Sage, I came over from MCE and LOVED mymovies. While I like Sage a lot, for so many of it's features. I use it exclusively now, even got rid of my TIVO. So please believe that I am not trying to bash Sage when I say that the DVD Library features of Sage is total CRAP. It is basically useless (without SageMC, and only slightly better with MC).

I was unable to figure out how to make it do genres out of the box. I added SageMC and added some other thing that allows me to go to an external database and look up stuff there. It works pretty well, I can add descriptions and cover art for my movies now. But the process was confusing and difficult, it took me 12 hours to set it up and read all the docs on how to use it. There was support for .MY files and support for another type of file. There were options to import into the Wiz.Bin one typ of file over another, and options to overwrite what is already there... Lots of options (which is cool, but gets confusing).

I think what people want is this...
ONE addon that will organize our DVD collections. We want to sort by Genre, actor, date released, etc. We need support for Episodic and Box releases (this is HUGE). It needs to look good, but honestly the default UI sage has looks just fine and SageMC is cooler looking so either of those two will do it. I personally would LOVE to see a "NEW Arrival" type setting too, one where it tags any newly imported media as "NEW". So you can easily find that movie you just imported. Once watched it untags it.

MOST importantly it needs to be simple. I think your knowledge of Sage is so indepth that what you take as trivial others might struggle with (hehe or I am just dumber-er than most).

[mkanet]

So... all this fuss is about getting new software development for old fashioned DVDs? Surely, I'm missing something obvious.

Originally Posted by vvulture

No obvious benefit as far as i know...

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by 95TBird

I'm also a DVD Profiler user & I look at it this way. I have over 500 DVDs in my collection. For the sake of argument, let’s say I got them all on sale for $10.00 each, that’s $5000.00 So I consider $30 for the convenience of the high resolution cover art, synopsis, etc. to be a Deal...

But if something that has cover that is just as good & a database that is just as robust can be found, for less, or for free, then I'm all for it!!

Yeah, it was harder to argue with DVD Profiler when it was free, but still, integrating a new data source is simply, honestly beyond the scope of anything I'm prepared to do at the moment, especially since it wouldn't benefit me any. Not arguing with anybody, just stating reality as it is today.

If I understand what Stanger is saying correctly, he is asking for realistic input, that he can actually implement to make the existing interface better.

SO, If I understand your request correctly Stanger, Here are my inputs...

(If I have misunderstood what you are asking for Stanger Please feel free to correct me !!!)

Nail on the head I'd say.

1. I'd like to see front & back covers (Perhaps front only Icons with selectable large front & back upon right click ?)

That's pretty easy, SageMC does it (or at least did it at one point).

2. Faster loading Icons (not sure how you would manage this, cashing ??)

Not really a lot I can do about that, the Core loads the thumbnails.

3. Easier organization of sets / series (some kind of virtual folders with assignable Icon ?)

Now that one gets tricky.

4. More flexible screen layout (I'm a MC16X9 user & to be honest the new version has me wishing ALL screens could be arranged like this!)

I'll have to look at that, I'm not entirely sure what you mean

Originally Posted by vvulture

Hey TBird,
Basically what you have described is pretty much what My Movies can do.
Thats what we are wishing / hoping for.

cheers

Was that so hard

Originally Posted by pat_smith1969

I get where you are coming from Stanger... I hear your frustration. You have Sage running for you perfectly, it sounds. You have DVDProfiler running for you perfectly it sounds like.

Actually (I meant to post this earlier), it's not uncommon for me to not even import my DVD Profiler data for weeks or months at a time. I hardly ever use the imported data.

I think a lot of us are not so lucky. Take my case for example. I am fairly new to Sage, I came over from MCE and LOVED mymovies. While I like Sage a lot, for so many of it's features. I use it exclusively now, even got rid of my TIVO. So please believe that I am not trying to bash Sage when I say that the DVD Library features of Sage is total CRAP. It is basically useless (without SageMC, and only slightly better with MC).

I was unable to figure out how to make it do genres out of the box. I added SageMC and added some other thing that allows me to go to an external database and look up stuff there. It works pretty well, I can add descriptions and cover art for my movies now. But the process was confusing and difficult, it took me 12 hours to set it up and read all the docs on how to use it. There was support for .MY files and support for another type of file. There were options to import into the Wiz.Bin one typ of file over another, and options to overwrite what is already there... Lots of options (which is cool, but gets confusing).

I think what people want is this...
ONE addon that will organize our DVD collections.

That's actually a good idea, maybe port the SageMC library back into the stock STV.....

We want to sort by Genre, actor, date released, etc. We need support for Episodic and Box releases (this is HUGE).

I take that to mean, you want series/box sets grouped. The core can actually do that automagically if you've got the right data in place.

It needs to look good, but honestly the default UI sage has looks just fine and SageMC is cooler looking so either of those two will do it. I personally would LOVE to see a "NEW Arrival" type setting too, one where it tags any newly imported media as "NEW". So you can easily find that movie you just imported. Once watched it untags it.

Ah yes, recently imported and recently watched

MOST importantly it needs to be simple. I think your knowledge of Sage is so indepth that what you take as trivial others might struggle with (hehe or I am just dumber-er than most).

Haven't got around to a wizard for setting up the importer.

Originally Posted by mkanet

So... all this fuss is about getting new software development for old fashioned DVDs? Surely, I'm missing something obvious.

I've got >400 DVDs, <10 HD DVDs. I am not, and can not replace all my DVDs with HD DVDs (most aren't out in HD). DVDs aren't going anywhere. Beyond that, nothing we're talking about need be specifically tied to DVDs or SD in particular.

[superporky]

Say what you will about BTV but BeyondMedia's (community created/supported) DVD Library is hard to beat.
-Automatically pulls DVD cover art and info from IMBD
-Plays all formats, including the ability to automatically mount and play ISO's
-Searchable 20 ways from Sunday.

I have no idea if I'm allowed to do this but screen shots are here-

http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22124

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by superporky

Say what you will about BTV but BeyondMedia's (community created/supported) DVD Library is hard to beat.
-Automatically pulls DVD cover art and info from IMBD
-Plays all formats, including the ability to automatically mount and play ISO's
-Searchable 20 ways from Sunday.

I have no idea if I'm allowed to do this but screen shots are here-

http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22124

This post reinforces there are 2 types of users dissatisfied with the existing dvdprolfiler interface. One that wants the UI to look a lot nicer, and the other that wants the integration to work better.

I'm part of that 2nd camp. DVDprofiler's hard to make work easily for ripped disk playback, since if the proper title isn't used for the directory that the dvd is ripped in, you have to manually fix it, which is a real PITA. I care less about detailed metadata than just hitting a button, doing the import and just having it work on all clients. Mymovies in MCE basically does that. DVDprofiler could if it could read metadata from the rip like it does from the drive, but it doesn't.

It's gotten so tiresome for me that even though I paid for dvdprfiler, I'm just suffering with the imdb lookup built into sage, which leaves a lot to be desired.

thx
mike

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mikesm

I'm part of that 2nd camp. DVDprofiler's hard to make work easily for ripped disk playback, since if the proper title isn't used for the directory that the dvd is ripped in, you have to manually fix it, which is a real PITA. I care less about detailed metadata than just hitting a button, doing the import and just having it work on all clients. Mymovies in MCE basically does that. DVDprofiler could if it could read metadata from the rip like it does from the drive, but it doesn't.

So it looks at the file structure? What happens with movie-only rips? Or rips transcoded into a different format?

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by stanger89

So it looks at the file structure? What happens with movie-only rips? Or rips transcoded into a different format?

I don't know. I always do full dvd rips, and it worked fine with those when I ran mce 2005...

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

So... all this fuss is about getting new software development for old fashioned DVDs? Surely, I'm missing something obvious.

Mymovies fully supports hd-dvd and BR. It has to use a 3rd party app for playback of course.

PS the next release supposedly handles .iso rips too, enabling powerdvd playback if you use daemon tools, since cyberlink stopped playing back rips stored on disk.

thx
mike

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mikesm

I don't know. I always do full dvd rips, and it worked fine with those when I ran mce 2005...

Yeah that's just not an option for me, even ignoring the 40% or so wasted space, it's so much more well integrated if it jumps right into the movie.

[vvulture]

Originally Posted by mkanet

So... all this fuss is about getting new software development for old fashioned DVDs? Surely, I'm missing something obvious.

Where are you coming from mkanet ?? What is it you are wanting to know ?

This "software" is used to catalog a media library, be it DVD's, AVI's, MPEG's and HD DVD or Blu Rays.. It is not specific only to DVD's.

Don't worry mkanet, you won't be left out. You will be able to catalog your ever growing HD DVD or BLU RAY collection if thats what you are worried about..

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Yeah that's just not an option for me, even ignoring the 40% or so wasted space, it's so much more well integrated if it jumps right into the movie.

I don't think it's required to do full rips for proper identification, but my only point is that it is SO much easier than the way dvdprofiler is integrated today.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mikesm

...but my only point is that it is SO much easier than the way dvdprofiler is integrated today.

Oh, understood/agreed (sorta*), identification by TOC would be much more reliable than by name, that's where the sorta comes in, DVDProfiler actually identifies by UPC or DiscID, which is just as reliable as structure/TOC. Problem is none of that info is contained in the rip, so as far as importing into Sage, title based is the only way I've come up with so far.

I don't think it's required to do full rips for proper identification...

Then I'm curious how it does it, aside from the file structure, I can't think of anything that would uniquely identify the release from the rip, and if you change the rip (ie by doing movie only) you've changed the file structure so there'd be no way to identify the rip anymore, and now we're back to name matching, just like DVD Profiler.

FWIW, I download MyMovies again to play with the Collection Management side. I pointed it to one of my two DVD locations.

It only got 51 DVDs imported before I gave up on it crashing.

15 of those were detected completely wrong (not even close)

Of the 50, only 10 were complete profiles.

A number more were not quite right (French HD DVD of Batman Begins instead of US DVD, even though it's a DVD rip).

What makes it kind of sad/frustrating is that all of those that it imported (save 2 and I don't knock it for those) are named "perfect" in that they match the DVD Profiler's names, but MyMovies seems to have been thrown for a loop. And doesn't look like the structure identification works.

Of course perhaps the most annoying part is that it seemingly picks random stuff when it doesn't find an exact match. It's definitely less picky than what I've got for pulling DVD Profiler info, but that reduced pickyness comes at the cost of accuracy.

Here's a great example:

Rip:
Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040 Vol. 2 Crusade
This is a whole-disc rip (1:1 what's on the DVD).

DVD Profiler's Data is complete.

MyMovies is non-existant, but MyMovies picks Speed 2 (actually assigned Speed 2 to several rips), and even then it's only 45% complete. Strangely, MyMovies has BGC 2040 Vol. 2 but it didn't pick it. Further it's got 1 and 3, but not 4, 5, or 6, however it did assign the Vol. 2 profile to the rips for 4, 5, and 6.

Just goes to show you that none of the solutions are perfect, and each user has different priorities. Futher goes to show that the "greatness" of MM isn't in it's database, but in it's interface.

And yes, I've got my Nomex underwear on

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Oh, understood/agreed (sorta*), identification by TOC would be much more reliable than by name, that's where the sorta comes in, DVDProfiler actually identifies by UPC or DiscID, which is just as reliable as structure/TOC. Problem is none of that info is contained in the rip, so as far as importing into Sage, title based is the only way I've come up with so far.



Then I'm curious how it does it, aside from the file structure, I can't think of anything that would uniquely identify the release from the rip, and if you change the rip (ie by doing movie only) you've changed the file structure so there'd be no way to identify the rip anymore, and now we're back to name matching, just like DVD Profiler.

FWIW, I download MyMovies again to play with the Collection Management side. I pointed it to one of my two DVD locations.

It only got 51 DVDs imported before I gave up on it crashing.

15 of those were detected completely wrong (not even close)

Of the 50, only 10 were complete profiles.

A number more were not quite right (French HD DVD of Batman Begins instead of US DVD, even though it's a DVD rip).

What makes it kind of sad/frustrating is that all of those that it imported (save 2 and I don't knock it for those) are named "perfect" in that they match the DVD Profiler's names, but MyMovies seems to have been thrown for a loop. And doesn't look like the structure identification works.

Of course perhaps the most annoying part is that it seemingly picks random stuff when it doesn't find an exact match. It's definitely less picky than what I've got for pulling DVD Profiler info, but that reduced pickyness comes at the cost of accuracy.

Here's a great example:

Rip:
Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040 Vol. 2 Crusade
This is a whole-disc rip (1:1 what's on the DVD).

DVD Profiler's Data is complete.

MyMovies is non-existant, but MyMovies picks Speed 2 (actually assigned Speed 2 to several rips), and even then it's only 45% complete. Strangely, MyMovies has BGC 2040 Vol. 2 but it didn't pick it. Further it's got 1 and 3, but not 4, 5, or 6, however it did assign the Vol. 2 profile to the rips for 4, 5, and 6.

Just goes to show you that none of the solutions are perfect, and each user has different priorities. Futher goes to show that the "greatness" of MM isn't in it's database, but in it's interface.

And yes, I've got my Nomex underwear on

Funny, that's a really weird experience. I know a few folks besides me who have a great experience with it. Did you name the directory of the rip with the volume name of the DVD? Maybe that's the issue.

I have found the dvdprofiler database terrible for kids dvd's, of which I have a ton of, and that mymovies works great on. But I've never tried anime in it. :-)

Ps It's never crashed on me. Are you running the latest .net updates? Vista or xp?


mike

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mikesm

Funny, that's a really weird experience. I know a few folks besides me who have a great experience with it. Did you name the directory of the rip with the volume name of the DVD? Maybe that's the issue.

Nope, why would I name it with the Volume name?

I have found the dvdprofiler database terrible for kids dvd's, of which I have a ton of, and that mymovies works great on. But I've never tried anime in it. :-)

Ps It's never crashed on me. Are you running the latest .net updates? Vista or xp?

XP, latest MyMovies (just downloaded yesterday), kept crashing complaining about some image it just downloaded being in use by another process.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Nope, why would I name it with the Volume name?



XP, latest MyMovies (just downloaded yesterday), kept crashing complaining about some image it just downloaded being in use by another process.

By default, DVD shrink and other utilities use the volume name for the directory to store the rips. I wonder if mymovies uses that as a key.

All I can say is I don't know why it's crashing. I never had it do that to me, but again, the last time I used it was back in 2006 under mce2005, so i haven't played with it recently.

thx
mike

[vvulture]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Just goes to show you that none of the solutions are perfect, and each user has different priorities. Futher goes to show that the "greatness" of MM isn't in it's database, but in it's interface.

Couldn't agree with you more, Stanger. You hit the nail on the head this time.

What i would like to see is :
- An interface like MM
- A database like DVD Profiler

And in addition :
- The ability to ALSO include not only DVD's, but also manually enter AVI's, mpeg's etc... so that just about anything can be incuded in your collection.
- Ability to catalog Series / Box sets ( an absolute must ).
For example, i have many documentaries in avi format that would love to include in my collection. This would involve entering the info mannually rather than rely on a database which would most likely not have the info on many of my doco's. Does all this make sense ?


regards,

[jptheripper]

i might be in the minority. The bulk of my collection (~1000 dvds) is on disk. I keep a few (<10) iso's on a drive for quick launch for the baby.

I would like to browse dvds with cover art and search by release year, watched/unwatched, genre

I would like to be able to launch and play an iso if marked as "local" vs. on shelf.

I would like an easy way to toggle between local and not.

Thats it. I can manage all the dvds from another computer with profiler on it. I dont mind using that other box b/c my sage box is remote control only and i need a keyboard to do the entry anyway.


thanx for all your work.. happy to beta test