Missing Digital Channels

[m0ng00se30]

I have 2 digital stations that have no data in sage.. Its either all "DTV Programming" or "No Data". Zap2It has the correct channels and epg listings showing. I am using the 39301 - Local Broadcast in Zap2It, and the corresponding "Meridian - Local Broadcast" in Sage. These 2 channels WMDN (CBS) and WGBC (NBC) still have "DTV Programming" or "No Data" (other digital channels are correct!). These are fairly new channels so I was waiting a while before asking around, but then I saw Zap2It has the correct data. What step(s) could I take to resolve this? Anyone have a guess if this could be a zap2it issue, a local tv station issue, or maybe even sage?

Thanks.

[m0ng00se30]

Just as a quick update or for closure... Sage Support says that OTA guide data only comes from the data stream and not from Zap2It programming guide. So basically I'm SOL unless the station put epg data in the stream!

--Mike

[Conejo]

That response doesn't make sense unless you're capturing from DVB or you're using XMLTV EPG.. Otherwise the EPG's are provided my Zap2it.

What type of capture device are you using?

When you select that OTA lineup, do those two channels, WMDN (CBS) and WGBC (NBC), show up without you having to add them?

I have observed where the station ID was KGO-DT but the SageTV EPG required it entered as KGO_DT or KGODT before any EPG data would roll correctly.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Conejo

That response doesn't make sense unless you're capturing from DVB or you're using XMLTV EPG.

Yes, it does make sense. SageTV's EPG data from Zap2it doesn't include all possible OTA stations. If the station is also on a cable/satellite system, it might be available. If it is an analog channel, there isn't data in the OTA broadcast, but a digital channel might contain EPG data.

There is a property to ignore EPG data in the digital stream, but if the data isn't available another way, there won't be any listings for any digital channels on that source. I think it is this property, but I don't use it:
epg_data_sources/<some number>/disable_data_scanning=true

- Andy

[Conejo]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Yes, it does make sense. SageTV's EPG data from Zap2it doesn't include all possible OTA stations.

Yes, I understand the orphaned OTA scenario.

In the case of m0ng00se30 it sounds like he found the listing for WMDN (CBS) and WGBC (NBC) on Zap2it. If these are available in the "39301" lineup on the website, shouldn't they also be available in his SageTV lineup.

This is the scenario that didn't make sense. Though I'm happy to learn new things, like SageTV picking up embedded program guides in ATSC transmissions.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Conejo

In the case of m0ng00se30 it sounds like he found the listing for WMDN (CBS) and WGBC (NBC) on Zap2it. If these are available in the "39301" lineup on the website, shouldn't they also be available in his SageTV lineup.

If it is an OTA channel: no, not always. That's exactly what I meant above by "SageTV's EPG data from Zap2it doesn't include all possible OTA stations."

- Andy

[Conejo]

Interestingly enough, just to be a pain, I added 39301 local meridian to one of my analog tuners to see what EPG data it picked up.

Channel 24 WMDN
Channel 30 WGBC

Both showed the EPG data. So I have no idea why this isn't working for m0ng00se30.

Now I have to get all that East Coast gunk out of my lineup. Ugh. Phtf!

[Opus4]

That's why I posted what I think is the property to disable scanning digital channels for EPG data... if I recall correctly & if things haven't changed, it is one or the other: EPG data from the digital stream or from some guide data source, such as the built-in data from Zap2it. It might be worth disabling the data scanning to see what happens.

- Andy

[m0ng00se30]

Thanks for all the input...

Conejo when you add 39301 +local bradcast you are seeing 26.1 and 31.1 (wmdn-DT) and (wgbc-DT) channels.. they are listing all analog and 3 outta the 5 digital channels I have. They aren't listing the 2 I mentioned above and they apparently don't have stream data on these channels. I really don't think that the 3 wtok-DT channels are getting it from the stream due the the amount of data I have (2 weeks) worth. I believe epg data from the stream is usually only 12 hours worth. (I guess that could vary for station to station)

I'll look around and see if I can find something else out about the channels... I'm like you Conejo.. when I sent the request in I thought that if it was in zap2its line up it was available to sage... guess not!?

--Mike

[Conejo]

Just to be a bigger pain, I added 5 channels to my digital lineup to see what EPG data showed up:

WMDN channel 24 ID:16030 Yes, received EPG
WMDNDT channel 24.1 ID:43603 No EPG
WGBC channel 30 ID:15578 Yes, received EPG
WGBCDT channel 30.1 ID:34591 No EPG
WTOKDT channel 11.1 ID:43182 Yes, received EPG

After the EPG update I received program guide data on 24, 30 and 11.1; 'No Data' on 24.1 or 30.1.

So, for some reason, Zap2it doesn't want to deliver guide data to those two channels, even with the proper StnNum/Station_ID. Zap2it displays the data for all the channels on their website.

If it's available, I think Zap2it should deliver it. I wonder, what's the issue?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Opus4

... if I recall correctly & if things haven't changed, it is one or the other: EPG data from the digital stream or from some guide data source, such as the built-in data from Zap2it. It might be worth disabling the data scanning to see what happens.

I asked about this because it has been a while since I've seen details about this & it has changed:

The correct info now is that if the channel has a Zap2it station ID, the data in the stream won't be used. If there is no such station ID for the channel, then the data in the stream will be used, if the stream contains EPG data. So, there should be no need to disable scanning the stream for the data. If there is no data showing up from Zap2it, that station is most likely not included in the data that SageTV gets from Zap2it.

Info for anyone trying to mix XMLTV data with the stream data: if the station ID is > 10000, then the stream data will be ignored; for lower IDs, the stream is scanned if that property is enabled.

- Andy

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Conejo

So, for some reason, Zap2it doesn't want to deliver guide data to those two channels, even with the proper StnNum/Station_ID. Zap2it displays the data for all the channels on their website.

If it's available, I think Zap2it should deliver it. I wonder, what's the issue?

I've told you the issue a couple times above: SageTV doesn't get data for every OTA channel from Zap2it. If the OTA channel isn't included in a cable or satellite lineup, it most likely isn't available to SageTV. This has come up on the forum previously.

- Andy

[Conejo]

Originally Posted by Opus4

I've told you the issue a couple times above: SageTV doesn't get data for every OTA channel from Zap2it. If the OTA channel isn't included in a cable or satellite lineup, it most likely isn't available to SageTV. This has come up on the forum previously.

- Andy

But, but, but...

I know, it's not my problem. For me, it's just a curiosity because I can see the data for WMDNDT and WGBCDT on the Zap2it website and they've assigned those stations StnNum IDs. It's just not in the EPG download available to SageTV.

I'll let it go.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Conejo

It's just not in the EPG download available to SageTV.

Exactly. EPG data from Zap2it isn't free & "all possible OTA channels" isn't included in what SageTV gets. Maybe that clears it up further.

- Andy

[m0ng00se30]

Conejo

Thanks for all the work... Nice having someone go the "extra" mile to help out. If there is anything I can ever do... give me a yell!!

I've gone as far today as to call the engerineer at the station in question, and inquire about the stream data. He said he would look into it today and get back with me. He said he was aware that incomplete or incorrect guide data was in the stream, but that he wasn't totally sure why. He said he would find out and do what he could.

Again.. thank you all.. Can't say it all make perfect sense, but it sounds like I might have a better change at the TV station than the EPG route!

--Mike

[Conejo]

I still believe there is a chance that you'll get EPG data for those channels in the none-too-distant future. SageTV may not subscribe/collect 'ALL KNOWN U.S. STATION EPG DATA' from Zap2it, but it does collect EPG Data for stations carried by most Cable Providers.

Those two stations currently have SD versions of their broadcast carried by a Cable Provider, meaning the SD EPG Data is included in the 'Cable Listed' Zap2it download. Those SD stations will cease to operate soon and the Cable Provider will carry the DT counterparts. Once that occurs, the DT station will be carried by the Cable Provider AND the EPG Data will be included the Cable Listed Zap2it download picked up by SageTV.

Only a matter of Time. Keep those StnNum ID #s handy.
"If it's carried, it won't get buried"
Uh oh, here come Opus. I better run and hide.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Conejo

Uh oh, here come Opus. I better run and hide.

I don't get it... do you suffer from ailurophobia?