Calling all r5000 dish experts...

[Bohica]

Guys (and gals?) -- this will be a long one.

Well -- after giving up on firewire recording (working for almost 2 years -- but seems the cable company in the area has won and stopped it from working for good)... I bought the HDHR. Only 4 channels available on my cable network... and the signal strength on the second input is poor. Anyway - I was sick of not having quality HD. So -- I bit the bullet and purchased Dish network -- and 4 (four!) vip211 units from nextcomwireless. For those of you who have purchased from them - you will realize the expense and effort here.

I am certainly not a sage novice... hell - I wrote one of the manuals on how to get firewire working for cable STBs... but I need help on this one. First - some setup background. The server is a dual xeon - multiple gigs of ram and 6 TB of raid 5. Been my server for almost 5 years - but still a very solid quality system. I was able to get it to playback acceptable quality when recording 1080i TS mpeg2 streams - but accept that it will never playback acceptable h.264 since I cannot upgrade the video in the system. I installed the sage multi (ver 25f) from nextcom... and actually installed a 4 port USB card in that system. (I have since gone out and replaced the four port with a four port USB2 card new from microcenter). The basics of recording on the server are working. I am only using 3 of the vip211s for now. I can record and watch SD channels fine.

So -- to test HD content - I went to upgrade one of the client systems in the house to a better HD accelerated video card. I purchsed the nvidia 8600GT -- and realized that the old motherboard in that client was AGP... no problem - time for an upgrade anyway. Got a new motherboard - new 3 ghz intel core 2 duo, new ram, etc. Upgraded that system - and it CRUSHED the XP install. No recovery. Well - in for a penny... lets move to vista. Done - vista ultimate. From reading the forums here - need PowerDVD cyberlink codecs -- done. Also installed Purevideo from nvidia. Set the merit for the cyberlink h.264 mpeg 4 codec highest. Have mpeg2 set to nvidia, and the mpeg4 set to directshow. This system should -- according to other posts - have no problem. But live HD content from mpeg2 channels is choppy and unwatchable - and live or prerecorded h264 streams are completely black. No sound - no movement of the time index - nothing.

I guess I should just throw out all my questions....

1) Is anyone else using the multi 25f version from nextcom?
1a) When I record any HD signal - the buffering bar hovers near "pushing it" -- is this normal?
1b) Should I set the sage configuration of each instance of the r5000 to name the files .ts? Doesn't seem to make a difference?
2) I am running the latest rc candidate. Did something break in this version? Is anyone else using this version?
3) I saw one post where someone recommended a registry change to set the demux to cyberlink. Should I do this on the client?
4) I was thinking of upgrading the video card in another client to the 8600gt -- and using that system (XP) as another test. Just haven't gotten there yet.
5) I had some wierd problems with vista security. For instance - there was no sageclient properties file in the sage directory. I turned off a user protections setting - and then the file was created. But the changes I made while the file was not there seemed to take (they persisted after reboots and things)... wondering if I should start fresh on this system since perhaps other programs (like cyberlink) could have had wierd issues installing. For instance here - I downloaded and ran the directshow filter manager - and even tho my account is administrator - I could not change the merit until I removed this setting. Anyone know what I am talking about with Vista -- this is my first experience with it.
6) BTW - debugging set to true in the sage client props... but I dont see the debug log. Where is it and what is the name?
7) Help

I realize this is all over the map. This has consumed my week - and I am not making progress. In general - shoot me things to try - and recommend ways to troubleshoot this for me.

Thanks,

T

[Fluffdaddy]

"1a) When I record any HD signal - the buffering bar hovers near "pushing it" -- is this normal?"

Normal for me and I only have one 211 R5000

[pengdahl]

I have been doing similar things although for different reasons...

I've had success with the r5000hd and the cyberlink ultra decoder on vista with both regular playback and h.264 on a 2.4Ghz Intel core2 duo system with an Nvidia 8800gts (which doesn't have h.264 hardware acceleration).

On vista, the configuration files get put here:
\users\(user)\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\SageTV

It isn't necessary to change the encoder merits, but if you want to, you have to right-click on the .exe for the filter manager and select "Run as Administrator". You might have to log out and back in too.

The haali splitter helped me watch some h.264 files recorded by the r5000 in windows media player. Sage doesn't appear to use it, though. The CoreAVC codec also works on the same files in Windows Media Player, but I haven't been able to get CoreAVC to work in Sage at all. I have had no success with ffdshow decoding the h.264 files. Probably it can't handle the mpeg2-ts container that the r5000 uses to save its h.264 files. I also have not had success playing back the h.264 files in Windows Media Center. I think the EVR actually causes problems in this case.

The 2.5f version of the r5000hd software appears to fix the problem previously reported on another thread where shows recorded on nfl-hd would record incorrectly.

My experience is that with one 211, the r5000 program is usually about half-way to "pushing it" on my server, which is not the same computer as the playback machine.

Playing back h.264 content on my system generally uses 40% of the cpu.

If you select the nvidia codec for mpeg2 playback, mpeg4 content will still use the cyberlink codec. It doesn't appear to be necessary to select "default" or adjust the filter merits.

If you haven't already, you might consider making sure your network connection between your server and client is gigabit. 100base-t or wireless may not cut it for 1080i mpeg2.

Make sure to select VMR9. I got black screens when overlay was selected. (edit - I just tested overlay again and it worked. I'd still try VMR9 though.)

Newer versions of SageTV can play .ts files - older ones only worked with .mpg even if the file was really a transport stream. I have my system set to record .mpg with no problems.

It isn't necessary to turn off the user protection setting in Vista, but if you do, it behaves more like XP. The VirtualStore is a "feature" in Vista where it creates a sandbox for programs that want to write in the Program Files or Windows folders.

Don't forget to configure the r5000hd program as follows: Bit Rate = "Compressed (no filler pkts)", Service = "EchoStar (Dish)", STB Model = "DISH 211/411", and "*.ts (Mux direct to Transport Stream)" is checked. Especially the option to compress and not record filler packets is important because otherwise the r5000 will record very large files that could choke your system and cause skips on playback.

In the past I had trouble because I was running the r5000 app on a server separate from the playback machine and I was using the windows service on the playback machine. The problems revolved around ways to access the disks on the server. I ended up disabling the windows service and mapping the drives on my server to drive letters on my playback machine. This made it possible for me to semi-reliably tune to hd channels with live tv, which didn't work well before. I still sometimes have to pause a show at the beginning for a little bit so it has a buffer in front of where I'm watching, though.

Good luck!

[HawgGuy]

I only run a single r5000-hd, 2.5f version of the software.

1a) When I record any HD signal - the buffering bar hovers near "pushing it" -- is this normal?

Not for me. Usually runs 50-60%

1b) Should I set the sage configuration of each instance of the r5000 to name the files .ts? Doesn't seem to make a difference?

Sage will work either way, I stick with .mpg

2) I am running the latest rc candidate. Did something break in this version? Is anyone else using this version?

Not to my knowledge or in my experience.

[HawgGuy]

The haali splitter helped me watch some h.264 files recorded by the r5000 in windows media player. Sage doesn't appear to use it, though. The CoreAVC codec also works on the same files in Windows Media Player, but I haven't been able to get CoreAVC to work in Sage at all.

Sage forces use of their MpegDeMux no matter what your system's merits are.

Turning debug on you can see Sage will recognize CoreAVC on my system, and even attempt to use it - but then fails and reverts to Cyberlink's decoder to play the h264 dish stream. I have submitted a bug report. You can also reproduce this in GraphEdit if you set Sage MpegDeMux to top priority and disable Haali, Cyberlink demux etc and set CoreAVC top merit above Cyberlink PDVD. You will see that the graph builds with PDVD no matter what merit. Substitute Haali or Cyberlink's demux and the Graph builds properly with CoreAVC.

I have had no success with ffdshow decoding the h.264 files. Probably it can't handle the mpeg2-ts container that the r5000 uses to save its h.264 files.

Because ffdshow can't handle the PAFF interlacing of the Dish h.264 streams.

Playing back h.264 content on my system generally uses 40% of the cpu.

Same here. 40-55%. EXCEPT: the last version of Nvidia's drivers for my 8500GT resulted in h.264 acceleration and 5-7% CPU usage. Unfortunately the video stuttered like crazy and was basically not watchable.

If you select the nvidia codec for mpeg2 playback, mpeg4 content will still use the cyberlink codec. It doesn't appear to be necessary to select "default" or adjust the filter merits.

That's my experience too. You can alter the preferred codec for h.264 streams in the properties file:

videoframe/h264_video_decoder_filter=CyberLink H.264/AVC Decoder (PDVD7.x)

or, for CoreAVC

videoframe/h264_video_decoder_filter=CoreAVC Video Decoder

Don't forget to configure the r5000hd program as follows: Bit Rate = "Compressed (no filler pkts)"

This makes sense to me, but I have not seen it documented anywhere. In fact, if you set that, the r5000-hd app. gives you a warning. Did this recommendatinon come from NextCom? I tried it and didn't notice any difference. I am going to try that setting for a longer period to see if it helps with a problem I have playing back live h264 streams. After around 10-15 minutes, sage freezes and a Windows error message appears. Checking the details shows an error with the Cyberlink decoder:

AppName: sagetv.exe AppVer: 6.0.13.1 ModName: cl264dec.ax
ModVer: 2.0.0.1904 Offset: 0000eaf6

Does anyone else see this problem?

[pengdahl]

I had only been testing so far, so I hadn't tried to watch a long h.264 show yet. I decided to try playing a long show, and indeed, it did crash for me after around 30 minutes. Here's my crash detail:

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: SageTV.exe
Application Version: 6.0.13.1
Application Timestamp: 46c4c44b
Fault Module Name: CL264dec.ax
Fault Module Version: 2.0.0.1904
Fault Module Timestamp: 468b6c96
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 00008014
OS Version: 6.0.6000.2.0.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 276a
Additional Information 2: 18adf9e8dce9869766c90c456b7f9da2
Additional Information 3: 020e
Additional Information 4: 8193408b943dbbc125a89bdec3e3917f

So maybe this solution isn't quite bug-free yet
Guess I'll submit a bug report and see where that gets me.

I suppose I should mention that I've occasionally had crashes trying to play these files in the PowerDVD player too (PowerDVD crashes).

[HawgGuy]

Originally Posted by pengdahl

I had only been testing so far, so I hadn't tried to watch a long h.264 show yet. I decided to try playing a long show, and indeed, it did crash for me after around 30 minutes. Here's my crash detail:

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: SageTV.exe
Application Version: 6.0.13.1
Application Timestamp: 46c4c44b
Fault Module Name: CL264dec.ax
.
.
.
I suppose I should mention that I've occasionally had crashes trying to play these files in the PowerDVD player too (PowerDVD crashes).

It's always nice to find someone else with the same problem. I've been beating my head against the wall for several months over this.

It happens in XP & Vista and with Nvidia drivers for 8500GT and ATI drivers for 2600 PRO.

My best guess right now is that it has to do with Sage MpegDeMux, because if you record a h.264 stream and play it back outside of sage, using either Cyberlink's or Haali's demux, no problems.

It is becoming more important that we solve this problem as:

1. Football season & World Series approacheth and
2. More and more DishHD stations are moving to h264 encoding.

[bcjenkins]

why can't you unregister the Sage demux?

[HawgGuy]

Originally Posted by bcjenkins

why can't you unregister the Sage demux?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought SageTV depended on that. Something to do with the ability to timeshift/pause/ff/rew.

[bcjenkins]

I honestly don't have a clue. Sage can't use some other splitter? I don't have one of these boxes but it is on my shortlist esp. if this gets sorted out.

B

[HawgGuy]

Originally Posted by bcjenkins

why can't you unregister the Sage demux?

You can't. I tried. Sage then gives a Playback error.

I seem to recall that there was a registry hack that allowed one to specify a different demux.

[Bohica]

Guys - thanks for all the input. I have made some progress.

I honestly think the selection of compressed in the r5000 app helped a lot. As I said - I was recording 1080i ts files from cable for a while - and all systems could handle no problem. But even mpeg2 HD streams coming from r5000 had problems. The compression seems to make it much more playable. Oddly enough I can play back h264 streams on the server without a real accelerated card (using the built in intel). Odd. Still having major issues with the vista client.

There is one definitive problem I want to ask if anyone has seen. When I select a channel in program guide -- to watch live TV -- there is about a 50% chance for some channels that I will get a stream started in the r5000 app -- but the file size always remains zero. I stop - then select the same channel - and it will create the file fine. Anyone else see this?

[Bohica]

The post containing that registry change is located here:

http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...0&postcount=51

I think this will change your demux.. interested if it works to stop that crash...

[Bohica]

OK -- check this out. On my local channels - which by default came in mapped from the 8000s down to local numbers like 4,5,7,9 etc. When I watch or select record on these channels - nearly everytime it will fail the first time. It begins the stream - shows me the rate per second flying by in the r5000 app -- but zero file size. The second time I try to watch or record -- it works fine.

Here is the wierd one -- when I get into the 100s, I can record and watch fine first try.

Even wierder -- if I go into the channel map and unmap the 8000 channel number (actually - map it to its own logical channel number) - I can record or watch that channel.

If sage and nextcom were in a friendly game of B.S. -- I would be looking around the table at a couple of dueces on their foreheads....

Any idea??

[HawgGuy]

Originally Posted by Bohica

OK -- check this out. On my local channels - which by default came in mapped from the 8000s down to local numbers like 4,5,7,9 etc. When I watch or select record on these channels - nearly everytime it will fail the first time. It begins the stream - shows me the rate per second flying by in the r5000 app -- but zero file size. The second time I try to watch or record -- it works fine.

Any idea??

I had a similar type of problem a few versions back with the r5000-hd application. It would signal a channel change, but would not see the stream, or or mis-recognize a h.264 stream as a standard mpeg. They fixed that as far as I can tell and I have not had any further problems. Changes the channel correctly 100% of the time now.

[HawgGuy]

I noticed that with the latest Nvidia & ATI drivers I could playback h.264 r5000-hd streams accelerated. Using only around 5% CPU. Unfortunately stuttering make it unwatchable.

I noticed that if I changed:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\Frey Technologies\\Common\\DSFilters\\MpegDeMux so that Remux Buffers were increased from 40 to 120 (arbitrary number). Playback was silky smooth.

Using my Nvidia 8500GT it would play smoothly for around 10-15 minutes and then have a serious (20-30 sec) freeze (not just SageTV, but Windows XP) and at times the menus would become seriously corrupted.

I swapped out the card with my ATI 2600 PRO and loaded CCC 7.8 drivers and all seems well; no pauses or menu corruptions. CPU hanging out between 4-7% usage.

I remember reading about someone else who had fixed stuttering by increasing the buffers - and it seems to have worked for me so far. I'll need to test it more to see if there are any side effects.

[redondo_se]

Originally Posted by HawgGuy

I had a similar type of problem a few versions back with the r5000-hd application. It would signal a channel change, but would not see the stream, or or mis-recognize a h.264 stream as a standard mpeg. They fixed that as far as I can tell and I have not had any further problems. Changes the channel correctly 100% of the time now.

I'm having problems getting my Dish Vip 211 R5000-HD to tune OTA channels, using the Vip 211's internal OTA tuner. I don't have any problems with Sat channels, just OTA. Like Bohica's earlier problem, it's about 50/50. The R5000 app shows that it's tuned the channel, and a file is created in the directory, but it remains at 0 (zero) file size.

edit: forgot to mention that I'm running version 2.5f (latest) of the R5000 app and SageTV version 6.3.5.

HawgGuy, are you using OTA tuners in your R5000 modified boxes?

Thanks.

[redondo_se]

Originally Posted by redondo_se

I'm having problems getting my Dish Vip 211 R5000-HD to tune OTA channels, using the Vip 211's internal OTA tuner. I don't have any problems with Sat channels, just OTA. Like Bohica's earlier problem, it's about 50/50. The R5000 app shows that it's tuned the channel, and a file is created in the directory, but it remains at 0 (zero) file size.

edit: forgot to mention that I'm running version 2.5f (latest) of the R5000 app and SageTV version 6.3.5.

HawgGuy, are you using OTA tuners in your R5000 modified boxes?

Thanks.

Found solution to my problem:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...0&postcount=21

[speeder]

Are dish network recievers (Bought from DN) capable of transmitting that it's hooked up to a dish that it was not asigned to? ie. at another house and another dish.

[briands]

Originally Posted by speeder

Are dish network recievers (Bought from DN) capable of transmitting that it's hooked up to a dish that it was not asigned to? ie. at another house and another dish.

I don't think so.