BLU-Ray & SageTV - The Roadmap

[cncb]

Whatever happened to that magical "managed copy" capability we heard so much about? That is, unlike DVDs legally being able to rip a Blu-ray to your PC. I am imagining having a (legal) Blu-ray library on my hard drive and watching them from the HD100. Dreaming...

[sleonard]

Originally Posted by cncb

Whatever happened to that magical "managed copy" capability we heard so much about? That is, unlike DVDs legally being able to rip a Blu-ray to your PC. I am imagining having a (legal) Blu-ray library on my hard drive and watching them from the HD100. Dreaming...

If I remember correctly, managed copies were part of the HD-DVD spec but not Blu-Ray.

S

[setherd]

just a thought. if sage played on a BR-DVD player

what if sage licensed someone elses blu-ray player as an extender that played BR dvd's

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by cncb

Whatever happened to that magical "managed copy" capability we heard so much about? That is, unlike DVDs legally being able to rip a Blu-ray to your PC. I am imagining having a (legal) Blu-ray library on my hard drive and watching them from the HD100. Dreaming...

Originally Posted by sleonard

If I remember correctly, managed copies were part of the HD-DVD spec but not Blu-Ray.

S

Managed Copy was supposedly part of the AACS spec/agreement, that means it should have been part of both.

Wonderful, looks like we're still living with an "Interim" AACS agreement, ie it's not even final yet. Managed Copy is supposed to be part of the final AACS spec (1.0, apparently we're still at 0.91).

As for the HD100 playing real Managed Copies, free Mandatory Managed Copy on Blu-ray with the HD100 playing them would be a great thing, but I'm not holding my breath, Managed Copy will require fancy DRM and Sage doesn't support DRM usually. Frankly I hope Sage keeps managing to skirt the need to support DRM.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I've got a BD-sourced TS file that kind of plays on the extender. I need to experiment more to see if the problem is my network/server or the extender itself. But note the "basically", that's there because it's not 100% there yet.

I think I am in the same boat; I have a .ts that was created by piecing together a number of .m2ts files and then remuxed to eliminate some extra stuff. The resulting .ts file plays but has a lot of jerky hiccups in it. I do not think it is a network issue, I think the HD extender is just choking on the high bitrate video.

Is this what you are seeing when you say the .ts file "kind of plays"?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

I think I am in the same boat; I have a .ts that was created by piecing together a number of .m2ts files and then remuxed to eliminate some extra stuff. The resulting .ts file plays but has a lot of jerky hiccups in it. I do not think it is a network issue, I think the HD extender is just choking on the high bitrate video.

Is this what you are seeing when you say the .ts file "kind of plays"?

That would be an accurate description. FWIW though, I remuxed 500MB of it (which amounts to 2 minutes ) into an MKV file and it plays smoothly off my server, so it's not the video or audio giving it trouble.

[tmiranda]

I'm not familiar with MKV other than reading a few posts about it here. I'll try running the m2ts through TMPGEnc or Procoder to see if that helps. If not I'll read up on the MKV container.

From your post I am assuming that remuxing from .m2ts to .MKV does not actually change the video encoding? If that is true why would having the same video stream in different containers make a difference? Wouldn't the same ad HW and SW within the extender be used to decode and render the video?

Also FYI - the audio is fine. I had to convert the "Dolby True HD Audio" to AC3. When I tried playing the file without converting the audio it caused the extender to hang and I needed to (hard) power cycle to recover.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

I'm not familiar with MKV other than reading a few posts about it here. I'll try running the m2ts through TMPGEnc or Procoder to see if that helps. If not I'll read up on the MKV container.

From your post I am assuming that remuxing from .m2ts to .MKV does not actually change the video encoding?

Correct.

If that is true why would having the same video stream in different containers make a difference? Wouldn't the same ad HW and SW within the extender be used to decode and render the video?

Different containers are handled different ways in SageTV, some the extender can demux natively and some the server demuxes and repackages somehow and feeds to the extender. I believe mkv can be demuxed natively on the extender.

[Deacon Crusher]

I also have stuttering ts files.

Stranger

what tools did you use when you

remuxed 500MB of it (which amounts to 2 minutes ) into an MKV file and it plays smoothly off my server, so it's not the video or audio giving it trouble.

Thanks

[stanger89]

Actually I think all I needed was MKVMerge.

[FMAX]

I haven't bought one yet but BD-Readers are cheaper now.
I read that they have a diffrent structure than DVD's.
so making folders or images won't be recongnized by sage tv?

I have BD-Disks in my collection I play via PS3 I would like to archive
these disks and use them on my media center.This should all be legal
and obtainable. I know all the DRM measures are involved, and know there
is software to obtain fair-use.

anybody want to go out on a limb? done it?

[mkanet]

'I watched my first ripped Blu-ray movie on SageTV'...

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31692

Originally Posted by FMAX

I haven't bought one yet but BD-Readers are cheaper now.
I read that they have a diffrent structure than DVD's.
so making folders or images won't be recongnized by sage tv?

I have BD-Disks in my collection I play via PS3 I would like to archive
these disks and use them on my media center.This should all be legal
and obtainable. I know all the DRM measures are involved, and know there
is software to obtain fair-use.

anybody want to go out on a limb? done it?

[electron]

I just read every post (albeit quickly), and I haven't seen anyone mention AnyDVD. I use AnyDVD now to play Netflix rentals on my SageTV extenders, without having to rip the disc. Last I checked, they now support decrypting Blu-ray movies. If this is the case, is it just a matter of adding support for reading the Blu-ray file system/file format?

[Shield]

Originally Posted by electron

I just read every post (albeit quickly), and I haven't seen anyone mention AnyDVD. I use AnyDVD now to play Netflix rentals on my SageTV extenders, without having to rip the disc. Last I checked, they now support decrypting Blu-ray movies. If this is the case, is it just a matter of adding support for reading the Blu-ray file system/file format?

Careful, I mentioned that product in this thread and my post was removed. They run a tight ship around here...
Shawn

[stanger89]

For the benefit of the readers:
SageTV Forum Rules

In order to keep this forum useful for SageTV users and prospective customers, please abide by the following rules when using this forum:

4. Any discussion around violation of copyrights will be immediately closed and deleted. This includes TV, Music, Software, etc and the sharing of those files with other users. Likewise, any discussion around using technology that is illegal here in the United States to break CSS encryption for DVDs or other forms of content protection will also be deleted. Discussion of CD and DVD ripping will be allowed as long as it's in reference to discs without encryption that are being ripped for personal fair use as allowed by the law.

Like it or not, agree with it or not, circumventing AACS and BD+ on Blu-ray (the only way to rip them since MC is dead) is not legal.

Might as well post it now I guess, since we're sort of on the subject. Don't expect BD logical format support any time soon, BD requires the inclusion of AACS on BD-ROM movies. This has two big ramifications: 1) there's basically no reason for any commercial entity to create playback software that supports "unencrypted" BD movies, and 2) the software that is created will need to meet AACS specifications for security and robustness (ie no DShow filters), so there won't be any commercial Dshow decoders for Sage to leverage to get BD "format" support like they do with DVDs.

The up side is BD uses a basically standard TS container as it's basic A/V container, and Sage already supports playing "BD compliant" transport streams, or if nothing else, it's relatively easy to remux BD A/V streams into a Sage friendly format

[FMAX]

I have a 780p camcorder, can construct my own HD-BluRay disk.
on harddrive, then why can't I have support on playing it back via sageTV?
Why burn it to expensive media unless I need to?

[johnnytyler]

I second that I just listed on another thread that I purchased a HD camcorder that records in AVCHD which outputs into a similar structure as Blu-ray. The bundled software allows me to edit it into a blu-ray compatible disk for burning. Thus why can't I play these files natively in Sage and Sage Extender esp. if the extender can support this in hardware without using up my CPU cycles isn't that the reason why we have an HD extender in the first place to play these types of files.

Stanger89, while I highly respect your recommendations and opinions on Sage as well as other forums, I disagree with you. As mentioned above, now that Blu-ray is the winner of the format wars, more home editing will be going towards these types of formats that will bundle software to burn to blu-disc format and play on a blu-ray player. SageTV's software is based on being able to play home brewed movies, pictures and it's PVR software. The HD extender was built specifically for the purpose of playing HDTV as well as HD videos. With the advent of these new camcorders and formats it would be a natural progression of Sage to incorporate these formats into its software, without the need for remuxing into other formats.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by FMAX

I have a 780p camcorder, can construct my own HD-BluRay disk.
on harddrive, then why can't I have support on playing it back via sageTV?
Why burn it to expensive media unless I need to?

Sage should support your camcorder's native format today, as is. You can play AVC/AC3 transport streams right now. Why make a "Blu-ray Disc" out of it if you're not going to burn it?

Originally Posted by johnnytyler

I second that I just listed on another thread that I purchased a HD camcorder that records in AVCHD which outputs into a similar structure as Blu-ray. The bundled software allows me to edit it into a blu-ray compatible disk for burning. Thus why can't I play these files natively in Sage and Sage Extender esp. if the extender can support this in hardware without using up my CPU cycles isn't that the reason why we have an HD extender in the first place to play these types of files.

What does "Blu-ray compatible disc" mean? BDAV or BDMV? BDAV isn't a problem it's just BD compatible transport streams on a disc. The problem is BDMV, ie menus BD-J, etc. The other problem is, I believe, BDMV discs are required to have AACS (OK, I guess not on a BD-R/RE).

Stanger89, while I highly respect your recommendations and opinions on Sage as well as other forums, I disagree with you. As mentioned above, now that Blu-ray is the winner of the format wars, more home editing will be going towards these types of formats that will bundle software to burn to blu-disc format and play on a blu-ray player.

But what does that mean, Sage should be able to basically play a BDAV format today, since it's just a transport stream.

SageTV's software is based on being able to play home brewed movies, pictures and it's PVR software. The HD extender was built specifically for the purpose of playing HDTV as well as HD videos. With the advent of these new camcorders and formats it would be a natural progression of Sage to incorporate these formats into its software, without the need for remuxing into other formats.

And like I said, it plays HD videos fine, should play HD videos from camcorders as well, even AVCHD videos (never tried myself though as I don't have an HD camcorder).

Let me put it this way, I wouldn't be holding my breath for SageTV to support BD-MV Profiles 1.0, 1.1, or 2.0, ie to be able to understand/handle BD menus, secondary stream, interactive content, or web content. Though maybe the situation will improve with more packages supporting the authoring of BD-R 2.0/BD-RE 3.0 (ie BDMV on a BD-R/RE). But just look at PowerDVD and the other BD players out there, they've all been forced to remove support for playing BDMV off a hard disk folder...

Of course frankly, I don't see a lot of value in bothering with the menus anyway.

[johnnytyler]

Stanger, you do make a valid point that PowerDVD was forced to remove support for hard drive files. I hope that the culture will change eventually. AVCHD has a similar structure as Blu-ray (just google AVCHD format) and I would like to be able to see these files without having to remux to MKV on Sage. I love Sage and with the extender, I'm blown away with what I have been able to achieve with my setup. I do believe that Sage can encorporate this format at least into the extender sigma chip if it has the capabilities given that these are non-encrypted files, the client is another story given that there are no directshow filters as of yet to support blu-ray natively.

[idvsego]

Originally Posted by setherd

just a thought. if sage played on a BR-DVD player

what if sage licensed someone elses blu-ray player as an extender that played BR dvd's

This seems like a decent "bandaid". I media extender with a BR drive in it. I know they make MCE extenders with DVD drives. Why not?