Can ANYONE at all get this to work: Vista+1080i+Mpeg2 decoder (Nvidia hardware acc.)?

[mkanet]

There's a known issue with sageTV under Vista and any mpeg2 decoder with Nvidia display adapters' hardware acceleration playing back 1080i. SYMPTOM: Video playback is "jerky" and unwatchable.

Currently, there are people who use mpeg2 decoders in software mode in vista (ie sageTV software decoder, nvidia purevideo software mode, etc).

There is no known fix (at least not posted on this forum yet)... unless you use an ATI card's hardware acceleration. I'm hoping maybe someone has figured out a way to force sageTV to work correctly. I'm just trying to figure out a way to make this work until sageTV engineers have a fix for this. This is currently the biggest overlooked bug with SageTV and Vista. At this point, I wouldnt recommend sageTV to anyone who's planning on buying a new PC for HDTV playback (since all new PC's usually come with Vista and Nvidia cards).

For those of you who think they are using their nvidia adapter's hardware acceleration in vista+sageTV for 1080i via Nvidia purevideo decoder, take a closer look at your purevideo decoder's property page. It will show its decoding in software mode YUV.

[ToxMox]

What does your default graph look like for 1080i files when you drag them into graphedit?
I'm running Vista business with an 8600GT and have silky smooth 1080i playback using around 25% cpu on an Athlon 64 4000+. Here is a screencap of my decoder properties during playback. I'm not sure if there is a way to tell what mode it is decoding in.

[mkanet]

The problem is with the sageTV mpeg splitter. I can too play smooth video in graphedit using non-sageTV splitters like Nvidia Transport demux. Unfortunately, SageTV doesnt use Nvidia Transport demux. I dont know how to to tell sageTV to not use its own splitter during playback (MainCocept AG filter).

Originally Posted by ToxMox

What does your default graph look like for 1080i files when you drag them into graphedit?
I'm running Vista business with an 8600GT and have silky smooth 1080i playback using around 25% cpu on an Athlon 64 4000+. Here is a screencap of my decoder properties during playback. I'm not sure if there is a way to tell what mode it is decoding in.

[ToxMox]

OK...you asked if anyone can get it to work. I seem to have it working so if you'll work with me I'll try to replicate my setup to yours. Please drag a 1080i mpg to graphedit and screencap the graph and post it. Also post your exact settings in the Video/Audio section of the Sage detailed setup. Also post what Nvidia driver you are running.

[mkanet]

Thanks for offering to help. I'm afraid there isn't much more I can show you than what I already described. Its very straight forward. But, since you asked, I posted both a graphedit snapshot of what works and what doesnt. The one that doesnt work (jerky video) is the one thats used in sageTV for playback. Did read what I said?

WORKING

http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nt=working.jpg


NOT WORKING (SAGETV JERKY PLAYBACK)

http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...doesntwork.jpg


PS: SageTV detailed setup has Nvidia Video decoder and Nvidia audio decoder and VMR9

Originally Posted by ToxMox

OK...you asked if anyone can get it to work. I seem to have it working so if you'll work with me I'll try to replicate my setup to yours. Please drag a 1080i mpg to graphedit and screencap the graph and post it. Also post your exact settings in the Video/Audio section of the Sage detailed setup. Also post what Nvidia driver you are running.

[ToxMox]

Just so I don't misunderstand you. When you drag a 1080i Mpeg into graphedit the graph automatically generated by it is the graph shown in your "doesn't work" file?

It should look like the one in defaultgraph.jpg attached.

If it doesn't then you need to lower the merit of anything that is getting in the way of the default graph being like the one in the image.

Which Nvidia driver are you running for your card. Mine are 7.15.11.5824 dated 4/26/2007.

My detailed setup is exactly as follows in Sage:
In the Video/Audio menu:
VMR9
Default
DirectShow
Default
Default
Disabled
Default
Default
0

Pertinent settings in Advanced:
3D Acceleration: Enabled
Use Full Screen Exclusive: Yes
Overlay Color Keying: Disabled

I get perfect playback of all my HD material be it 1080i or 720p
This works for when I have my display set to either 1080i or 1080p and has worked via component and DVI-HDMI. Works with either the Nvidia decoder or my Cyberlink Decoder.

[ToxMox]

Oh and one other thing. After enabling FSE I have noticed that Sage needs to be restarted otherwise I don't see the benefit. After I muck about with all my settings I usually just reboot the machine and let Sage automatically load.

[mkanet]

Sorry it took so long to reply back. It took me a while for reboots, setting merits, registering/unregistering filters.

I finally got my system to build a default graph that looks exactly like yours.



I am getting software playback YUV in the Nvidia video decoder. After fussing over and over again, I was able to get hardware playback (like shown in my previous post) but still got jerky video... UNLESS I use the non-sageTV splitter, but still had problems with some 1080i video content like jay leno. SageTV set all the same settings as yours has the same result as in graphedit.

With the latest Cyberlink PDVD7, I get a black/blank video screen both in SageTV and graphedit... unless I use the Cyberlink splitter.

I am using Forceware 158.24 (Current Nvidia driver on their site). Im using HDMI @ 1080p. Geforce 8500GT.

OOPS... I was geting software playback when I had the hardware acc unchecked. With it unchecked, I get smooth software playback. With it checked, I get the jerky video using the default graph above. Same with with SageTV and all the same settings as yours.

Originally Posted by ToxMox

Oh and one other thing. After enabling FSE I have noticed that Sage needs to be restarted otherwise I don't see the benefit. After I muck about with all my settings I usually just reboot the machine and let Sage automatically load.

[mkanet]

Do you have a multicore CPU? I do. This might be the problem.

Also, if I use Overlay instead of VMR9, I am able to make it work.

[ToxMox]

I noticed in your screenshot that you have your decoder properties set to prefer overlay instead of VMR9. Is that intentional? Deinterlace mode I set to Default VMR also in the decoder properties.

[mkanet]

Right, changing those had no affect on my results.

Originally Posted by ToxMox

I noticed in your screenshot that you have your decoder properties set to prefer overlay instead of VMR9. Is that intentional? Deinterlace mode I set to Default VMR also in the decoder properties.

[ToxMox]

My CPU is not Multicore

[ToxMox]

I guess that is where the prob is at (when comparing yours and my setup). You have a quad core. So my 20-25% cpu probably equates to more than one core on yours and it is just enough to make the difference.

[mkanet]

I think thats the problem. Id like to think that I have enough experience with DS filters to know its nothing I can fix myself. I'm not sure if the bug is in the Nvidia driver or where. No matter what, this is a pretty big problem since anyone who buys a new PC is most likely going to have a multicore CPU and an Nvidia card with Vista.

Originally Posted by ToxMox

My CPU is not Multicore

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

I think thats the problem. Id like to think that I have enough experience with DS filters to know its nothing I can fix myself. I'm not sure if the bug is in the Nvidia driver or where. No matter what, this is a pretty big problem since anyone who buys a new PC is most likely going to have a multicore CPU and an Nvidia card with Vista.

I think there is a windows tool to turn off the 2nd core, but I am not sure this is really the issue. It affects how CPU usage is calculated, but since I don't think Sage is multithreaded wrt to codecs, multiple cores don't do much I think.

Are you guys saying that Vista Sage 1080i playback works in overlay mode? Which nvidia drivers and codecs are being used? I thought that overlay wasn't supported all that well in vista.

thanks,
mike

[mikesm]

PS I don't think Toxmox is running the latest nvidia driver. I know various versions have had issues with HD acceleration. Could that be part of the discrepancy? Which driver install are you currently using Toxmox?

I am interested in this too since I got a compact PC to use as an HD extender. It's dualcore X2 3600 with onboard 6150 graphics, but I have an 8400GS on the way too. I won't put this in production until I know playback is fine (to keep WAF high).

thanks,
mike

[mkanet]

Windows taskmanager can turn off cores allocated to Windows processes. However, there's no way to do this at the driver level. That's why I could make it happen in both graphedit and sageTV. I guess if there was a way turn turn it off at this level, it would work. I've tried all the different Nvidia drivers up until beta 16x.xx. They all did the same thing.

This was very easy for a senior sageTV engineer to reproduce. He just tried it just once and it did the same thing. I think he mentioned he had a dual core AMD machine with an Nvidia display adapter. His solution to fixing the problem was switching to an ATI card.

Overlay doesnt have this problem; even in 1080i. But, the colors look pretty bad compared to VMR9; even after calibrating the colors. I think I remember somewhere where they said overlay wasn't support... in Vista Media Center.

What surprises me is there are enough new PC's out there where this shouldnt be as a big mystery as it seems to be.

Originally Posted by mikesm

I think there is a windows tool to turn off the 2nd core, but I am not sure this is really the issue. It affects how CPU usage is calculated, but since I don't think Sage is multithreaded wrt to codecs, multiple cores don't do much I think.

Are you guys saying that Vista Sage 1080i playback works in overlay mode? Which nvidia drivers and codecs are being used? I thought that overlay wasn't supported all that well in vista.

thanks,
mike

[HawgGuy]

Will changing to a newer ATI card solve this problem?

When I play live HD H.264 streams from Dish (via r5000) processor usage is around 50% (2.4 Ghz C2D E6600) (Vista Home Premium). Sage will crash after around 45 minutes.

If I play the same, recorded file in PowerDVD, CPU usage is around 3-5% and much smoother. Obviously the PowerDVD playback is offloading most of the work to the GPU. How to get Sage to do the same thing? Will an ATI card solve this problem?

[mkanet]

Yes, changing to an ATI card will solve the problem that I described. This was proven by a sageTV engineer. With even the latest Nvidia cards and drivers, this problem still exists.

I could be wrong about this, but I think playing hardware accelerated H.264 requires DXVA 2.0 (aka Purevideo HD). I know for a fact that SageTV doesnt support any decoders with DXVA 2.

Originally Posted by HawgGuy

Will changing to a newer ATI card solve this problem?

When I play live HD H.264 streams from Dish (via r5000) processor usage is around 50% (2.4 Ghz C2D E6600) (Vista Home Premium). Sage will crash after around 45 minutes.

If I play the same, recorded file in PowerDVD, CPU usage is around 3-5% and much smoother. Obviously the PowerDVD playback is offloading most of the work to the GPU. How to get Sage to do the same thing? Will an ATI card solve this problem?

[bialio]

Here's my default graph for what I have on my Vista machine.

Hardware is almost identical to yours - 8500GT, dual core E4400, Vista Business. I have the Nvidia Purevideo decoder installed. No other encoders installed other than the ones Sage installs.

Click on the link at my blog for the full res version.

http://serenity-htpc.blogspot.com/20...dia-graph.html

Settings in Sage - VMR9, 3d on, full screen OFF, Video Decoder = NVidia, Audio Decoder = AC3Filter

btl.