Power Usage revisited, a case study.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

ALOT of encoding is about 10hr/day

I meant what "a lot of electricity" is

[hemicuda]

I used to run a 20 drive scsi raid array (sheesh what a waste of $$$). A clamp-around ammeter peaked out at around 3.5A with everything running. Suffice it to say that when I retired that unit the power bill went way down.

The sad thing is that I have over 2x the storage in just 4 drives now.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by mattdcknsn

This might be a bit off topic but its the best location I could find. I found this utility that computes how much of a power supply you actually need to run your equipment. There is a lite version which is free and it tells you what you need to know. I was surprised to see that a simple file server with 4 or 5 drives would only need a 250 Watt PS. I dont know the specifics of power supplies but if you get a PS that is overkill it has to suck up some more juice.

Anyway, here is the URL:
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

Just used it and I guess it's time to upgrade the PSU to a 900W it says I need 864W - been working fine with a 600W. Guess I like to live dangerously.

[nielm]

Originally Posted by wvpolekat

#1- Building something more akin to a gaming box...

Dual Xeons? Come on..... My server is running on an Athlon XP 1700, 2 tuners, comskip, recording ~30 shows a day with 2 clients and my average CPU utilization over the last month is 4%..

I agree with you for a basic Windows client setup, but bear in mind that if you use an MVP, all non-SDTV-MPEG2 files will need to be transcoded on-the-fly on the server... Also the MVP's UI is partially rendered on the server. Therefore a faster server is sometimes necessary, especially if you have several MVP's

Finally placeshifter also requires on-the-fly transcoding.

(/me just bought a power meter... )

[stanger89]

OK, I updated the first post with measurements for my last box (I may update again after I check if CnQ is enabled on that box).

Here's a copy of my edit to the first post:
OK, now that I've got measurements for all my Sage-involved PCs (which happen to be all my PCs ), I think it's time to look at the "big picture".

Looking at my usage history since I moved in, I've had a low usage of 771KWH, and a high of 944KWH, with an average of right about 850KWH. Going through the numbers I've accumulated so far, my entire PC/Sage setup pulls about 370KWH/month, or 43% of my electric usage.


To continue on that thought, I have 4 boxes: NAS, Server, HTPC and Desktop. NAS and Server I've established are, and will continue to be run 24/7, for a number of reasons, further I don't like spinning drives up/down all the time.

So what's the most obvious first step? Take down the HTPC/Desktop when I'm not using them, but how much will that do?

Well, say I use each, or at least would run them 4hrs/day. That's 1/6th what I currently run them, so that would be 5/6th less usage or:
Manchester: .833 * 92.61KWH ~= 77KWH less or $8.64 less.
Newcastle: .833 * 82.70KWH ~= 69KWH less or $7.72 less.
--------------------------------------------------------
Total: ~146KWH less or $16.35 less.

That's pretty good, going to have to look into the best way to accomplish that. The real question in my mind is what can I do about my server, it pulls ~2x the power of any other box, so what can I do to get it reduced?

Lets see, going by the 8W/drive metric, I've got 11 drives, so 88W for storage, that leaves 110W for the system. There may not be much I can do about that one.

[Menehune]

My server draws 173VA idle, 175VA streaming a file to the client.
I believe I have CnQ enabled but I have windows set to "minimal power management", 30 min HD spindown, and system standby to "never".

My little 13" TV draws 80VA when on.

[wvpolekat]

Originally Posted by nielm

I agree with you for a basic Windows client setup, but bear in mind that if you use an MVP, all non-SDTV-MPEG2 files will need to be transcoded on-the-fly on the server... Also the MVP's UI is partially rendered on the server. Therefore a faster server is sometimes necessary, especially if you have several MVP's

Finally placeshifter also requires on-the-fly transcoding.

(/me just bought a power meter... )

I would say that unless you are running more than about 10 MVPs almost any processor from the last 3-5 years would work just fine. I see occasional spikes with my 2 MVPs if they are both in the menus or a similar scenario, but I also know that MVP lag is rarely due to the server being CPU bound. I have not been able to pin down exactly where it is occuring, so I assume it is either in the MVP or somewhere in the pile of junk called Java. Personally, based on past experience with Java apps, I will go with it.

On Transcoding:
I convert everything to standard MPEG2s so it doesnt have to transcode. Drive space is cheaper than power, both electric and CPU.

I run everything that isn't already MPEG2 through http://www.xilisoft.com/video-converter.html and never have to worry about transcoding.

I think this need is highly dependant on your video source. I would guess that many of the non MPEG2 videos are downloaded. In my opinion, the time to encode/compress plus the loss of quality isn't worth the time and trouble just to save drive space, but would be worth it to save bandwidth. This may be a completely different story with HD, but if you are doing HD, you more than likely aren't using an MVP anyhow.

[hemicuda]

Originally Posted by wvpolekat

This may be a completely different story with HD, but if you are doing HD, you more than likely aren't using an MVP anyhow.

some of us like to buck the system. WAF is good for downconverted HD thru the MVP if there wasn't a timing issue w/ comskip and HDHR. i use the auto-compress STVi for HD shows til the HD-MVP comes out.

[dvd_maniac]

I compress everything into .H.264, recordings, dvds and downloads to conserve space and I am waiting for an mvp to get delivered through Sage. Will the transcoding electricity cost on the server offset any savings I would get by switching from a full PC client to the MVP?

[wvpolekat]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

I compress everything into .H.264, recordings, dvds and downloads to conserve space and I am waiting for an mvp to get delivered through Sage. Will the transcoding electricity cost on the server offset any savings I would get by switching from a full PC client to the MVP?

Well, I think there are 3 factors

cost of storage vs cost of transcoding
cost of client PC vs cost of transcoding/MVP
cost of client PC vs cost storage/MVP


In my opinion, I wouldn't bother with higher compression only to save storage. Perhaps for something like movies that will be stored longer term where you can spread the cost (in $$ and time) of encoding in h.264 over a longer period, but, with a regular SD DVD taking about 4-7 gigs (feature only) storage costs are about $1 per movie and it is a one time expense, where transcoding is an ongoing expense. I have no idea how many times a movie would have to be transcoded to use $1 in power.

[dvd_maniac]

Well, I have over 1500 Movies in H.264 so far, so even if I Re-ripped/shrunk them to like 3GB a piece, that would still be 4.5TB. I also have all my favorite old shows which is about 3500 episodes. some 1/2 hour and others 1 hour all in H.264 format. I wouldn't want to calulate the space needed for all that.
So I guess if I go MVP then transcoding costs will just be a fact of life for me.
But probably won't raise my E-bill.
I will try out the one MVP and see how it works out and wait for the HD extenders for the rest of my client replacements.

[stanger89]

FYI, I updated the first post with the numbers from my new HTPC/Blu-ray player build. It's an Athlon X2 BE-2400/AMD 780G system. The X2 BE is a 45W 2.3GHz dual-core, and the AMD 780G is an integrated Radeon 3200 graphics chipset. Overall the results are pretty impressive IMO. With C'nQ enabled, it only draws about 45W idle, and only hits maybe 80W when playing an H.264 Blu-ray disc.

Still debating about what to do about my server, if I rebuilt it with similar hardware, and replaced the 12 or so 7200 rpm drives with WD "Green" drives, I could probably cut it from almost 200W down to under 100. I figure 96W or so from the 12 HDDs (8W/drive), and the CPU/mobo is probably close to 100, so I could get it down to 45W for the core hardware, plus 4W/Green drive, that's about 60W total.

Of course that would only save about $10 a month, so it would take 12 years to recoup that expense

[SJL]

Hi Stanger,
I can let you know how a server build for that turns out, I choose the 780G and the AMD 4850e for my new server, with the HD Extenders for the clients. I'll be posting details on that hopefully in a week or so after it's built (I had to recable the entire house first).

I've been fighting my utility bills like most people, with a new high efficiency furnace and insulation, I cut my natural gas by 70% this year, far better than I had imagined was possible.... But the electric is still through the roof. Every light bulb is a CFL, and the bill is sky high for just two people and the kill-a-watt can't help me find the problem. I looked at several "whole house" meters, and after weighing my options I settled on this one:

http://www.theenergydetective.com/

I figure I can narrow it to the specific breaker at least (by turning off others), and then go in for the Kill with the kill-a-watt. I suspect it may be the pump for the well though, but this will tell me for sure. If nothing else I have the added benefit of always knowing exactly what my electric bill will be before it arrives, no more surprises. I can post about how well this works after it arrives if anyone is interested.

Scott

[sic0048]

Can you swap out the clients for HD extenders? You could literally make up the cost of the extenders with the lower power costs. Then use a decent efficient power supply for your new server (80+ rating) and don't worry about things like the green HDs. Until the prices drop on those things, I don't think they are worth it.

[stanger89]

Depends on how many you've got. The new WD Green drives only us 1/2-1/3 the power of most normal 7200rpm drives, that's 3-4W vs the 8-10W normally used, and then there's the fact that they're probably much larger (need fewer). If you're like me, running about 15 HDDs total, that can be a significant portion of your consumption. My server pulls about 190W, of which I figure about 80W - 90W is just HDDs inside.

Replace the 11 drives of mixed size with say 4 "Green" drives (and have more capacity to boot), and that cuts HDD usage down to about 12W. Basically that almost halfs the servers consumption, OK, cuts it by about 1/3. That's basically like removing an entire PC.

That's nothing to sneeze at, that's about 50KWH/month or so. Of course that amounts to only a couple bucks a month, so you have to consider the time to recoup the investment.

[SJL]

I was tempted to go with the WD green drives, but amongst the reviews I looked at there always seemed to be complaints of DOA or dead after a month (not many, but just enough to make me feel unsure about it - plus I've had a few WDs go prematurely on me). Since I couldn't afford RAID this round, I thought I'd go with what looked to be the most reliable drive I could find. I ended up ordering a few of these 750Gig PVR/Media Server specific drives from Seagate:

http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/pro...series_7200.3/

When I read that the Seagates were built for 24x7 operation and can handle 10 simultaneous HD streams at once, I was sold. Then I found out that there was a version of the WD Green drive also built for PVRs and Media Servers:

http://www.westerndigital.com/en/pro...sp?driveid=389

Looking at the spec sheets between the Seagate and the equivalent WD 750gig green drive:

Model---------Watts-Idle-Standby
ST3750840SCE--9.4 9.3 .8
WD7500AVCS---7.4 4.0 .97

The WD specs look to be better across the board and if the drives are reliable, certainly look like the lowest power consumption (that I can find anyways). Maybe I'll try one of the WDs when I run low on space with the Seagates - which will probably be a while.

Scott

[Addict]

Good show, thanks for the info Stanger. Just ordered mine...been wondering about my usage.