Will the R5000HD 169time.com products work with SageTV 6.1?

[mkanet]

Ohoh... I just realized... how do I order Howard TV (on demand). I'm guessing on-demand stuff is not compatible with this setup.

[Morgan111]

Got my appetite up after reading through this thread. Found a nice used DCP501 (broken DVD drive) on ebay for $25 (Buy it now). I saw to the reference to it being expensive to do the modification but missed the details about exactly HOW expensive. $467(sale)+$50+shipping+shipping.

Yow!

I love my HD but will have to pass on this option. If anybody wanted a used DCP501 with a broken DVD and no remote for $25 it's still there...

[mkanet]

I currently have two internal OTA ATSC Tuners, I will have a modded-DCT5100 soon. Will SageTV be able to handle an HDHomerun as well on the same system? I think HDHomerun has two tuners builtin. I saw a limitation of 4 sources earlier, but wasnt sure if that was meant for the cable boxes only or not.

[popechild]

Okay, darn both of you guys. Now you're getting me excited, and I don't have the money to get excited right now...

Let me ask a question or two of my own if I may.

Comcast here in LA was recently taken over by Time Warner. So I'm a little worried about whether or not they'll agree to provision it or not, but I can obviously call them and try to figure that out on my own.

1) Is there any fear that the cable co will *stop* supporting boxes like these that are already out there in the market? Other than some future potential move to Mpeg4, once you get this thing provisioned, they should let it keep working as long as you've got service with them, right? I guess if you moved and had to re-provision you could get stuck, but otherwise is there any chance all of a sudden they'll flip a switch and say "sorry, the dcp501 won't work anymore"? $450 is a lot of money to pay for the r5000 mod, but if I felt confident it would last me for a few years at least without any significant chance they'd shut it down, I could probably handle it...

2) Content: I assume you get whatever channels you pay for right? Nothing more, nothing less? So even though this isn't an HD box, they'll still let you order HD content and the r5000 can grab it off this box even though it doesn't have an HD tuner in it? Or is there some minimum level of service you need, or alternately, can you get HD without even buying the HD package since it's not really an HD box anyway?

Thanks! I'm eager to call and see if TW will provision it here, but not eager to deal with CS reps on the phone. I've been eyeing this mod and holding off hoping something would happen with cablecard (ie. a hack). But since there's no telling when or if these'll finally be available in any DIY machines, this is the only option I've seen that seemed to be a possibility. So I've been checking back here regularly to see if Sage has gotten H.264 playback working yet for the Dish mod. Now I may not even need Dish after all!

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Ohoh... I just realized... how do I order Howard TV (on demand). I'm guessing on-demand stuff is not compatible with this setup.

The DCP501 and other Moto boxes with the R5000-HD mod work fine for VOD, but sage does not support VOD. It's a sage issue and not one that can easily be fixed.

But if you talk to the box directly via IR ondemand works fine. :-)

thanks,
mike

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

I currently have two internal OTA ATSC Tuners, I will have a modded-DCT5100 soon. Will SageTV be able to handle an HDHomerun as well on the same system? I think HDHomerun has two tuners builtin. I saw a limitation of 4 sources earlier, but wasnt sure if that was meant for the cable boxes only or not.

yes, i use my r5000 with an hdhomerun and it works fine. Due to some sage quirks you have to use a different channel line-up for the hdhomerun vs the r5000, but not really a problem.

The 4 tuner limit means a max of 4 r5000-hd's per system. You can all sorts of other tuners and it works fine.



Thanks,
mike

[mkanet]

So, how many channel line ups would I have if I have the following:

1) OTA ATSC tuner (internal)
2) OTA ATSC tuner (internal)
3) R5000 (external)
4) HD Homerun (external: tuner #1)
5) HD Homerun (external: tuner #2)

Im having a hard time compreending how the guide would look or how I would switch from one line up to the next (SageMC)

Thanks so much for your information Mike!

Originally Posted by mikesm

yes, i use my r5000 with an hdhomerun and it works fine. Due to some sage quirks you have to use a different channel line-up for the hdhomerun vs the r5000, but not really a problem.

The 4 tuner limit means a max of 4 r5000-hd's per system. You can all sorts of other tuners and it works fine.



Thanks,
mike

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by popechild

Okay, darn both of you guys. Now you're getting me excited, and I don't have the money to get excited right now...

Let me ask a question or two of my own if I may.

Comcast here in LA was recently taken over by Time Warner. So I'm a little worried about whether or not they'll agree to provision it or not, but I can obviously call them and try to figure that out on my own.

1) Is there any fear that the cable co will *stop* supporting boxes like these that are already out there in the market? Other than some future potential move to Mpeg4, once you get this thing provisioned, they should let it keep working as long as you've got service with them, right? I guess if you moved and had to re-provision you could get stuck, but otherwise is there any chance all of a sudden they'll flip a switch and say "sorry, the dcp501 won't work anymore"? $450 is a lot of money to pay for the r5000 mod, but if I felt confident it would last me for a few years at least without any significant chance they'd shut it down, I could probably handle it...

2) Content: I assume you get whatever channels you pay for right? Nothing more, nothing less? So even though this isn't an HD box, they'll still let you order HD content and the r5000 can grab it off this box even though it doesn't have an HD tuner in it? Or is there some minimum level of service you need, or alternately, can you get HD without even buying the HD package since it's not really an HD box anyway?

Thanks! I'm eager to call and see if TW will provision it here, but not eager to deal with CS reps on the phone. I've been eyeing this mod and holding off hoping something would happen with cablecard (ie. a hack). But since there's no telling when or if these'll finally be available in any DIY machines, this is the only option I've seen that seemed to be a possibility. So I've been checking back here regularly to see if Sage has gotten H.264 playback working yet for the Dish mod. Now I may not even need Dish after all!

First off, does your market use Moto boxes or SA? If Moto boxes, then this approach should work for you. Under federal law, they MUST provision a user owned STB IF it is compatible with their network. However, most of the non DCP501's for sale (DCT2500's, etc...) on ebay are stolen, so as a rule of thumb they refuse to provision them. The DCP501's never were offered by an MSO, so they have no excuses on this unit.

If you get a MSO owned box, obviously it will be provisioned, but if they detect you messed with it on a visit, you could be subject to fines and other bad consequences - you don't own the box.

For them to deprovision these types of boxes would mean to obsolete millions of STB's. They are not going anywhere anytime soon. They cannot detect the R5000 mod on a box remotely, but it's obvious if they see the extra USB port hanging out the back. :-)

getting them to provision the DCP501 (a non HD box) with HD content is generally not a problem, but sometimes they screw this up. It can take a couple calls to fix it. After all, they generally don't know if the DCP501 is HD capable or not. In any case, the DCP501 has a HDD200 slot in the back for an HD daughter card, so all you need to do is tell them that and they will generally activate it for HD services if that isn't the default.

Comcast in the SF bay area activates HD by default fine. Can't speak to TW. But if you are serious about this, call them up and find out if they will do it. generally MSO's will (because it's the law).

It's very expensive, but the only option out there that isn't gelded like cablecard.

Thanks,
mike

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

So, how many channel line ups would I have if I have the following:

1) OTA ATSC tuner (internal)
2) OTA ATSC tuner (internal)
3) R5000 (external)
4) HD Homerun (external: tuner #1)
5) HD Homerun (external: tuner #2)

Im having a hard time compreending how the guide would look or how I would switch from one line up to the next (SageMC)

Thanks so much for your information Mike!

This should work fine. You get one integrated guide with the sum of all the channels with sage. The channel numbers may be different on the different boxes, but Sage mashes this all together into an integrated guide. You can even combine Cable and DBS on one sage install if you like - Sage does the right thing with managing the tuners.

thanks
mike

[popechild]

Originally Posted by mikesm

First off, does your market use Moto boxes or SA? If Moto boxes, then this approach should work for you. Under federal law, they MUST provision a user owned STB IF it is compatible with their network. However, most of the non DCP501's for sale (DCT2500's, etc...) on ebay are stolen, so as a rule of thumb they refuse to provision them. The DCP501's never were offered by an MSO, so they have no excuses on this unit.

If you get a MSO owned box, obviously it will be provisioned, but if they detect you messed with it on a visit, you could be subject to fines and other bad consequences - you don't own the box.

For them to deprovision these types of boxes would mean to obsolete millions of STB's. They are not going anywhere anytime soon. They cannot detect the R5000 mod on a box remotely, but it's obvious if they see the extra USB port hanging out the back. :-)

getting them to provision the DCP501 (a non HD box) with HD content is generally not a problem, but sometimes they screw this up. It can take a couple calls to fix it. After all, they generally don't know if the DCP501 is HD capable or not. In any case, the DCP501 has a HDD200 slot in the back for an HD daughter card, so all you need to do is tell them that and they will generally activate it for HD services if that isn't the default.

Comcast in the SF bay area activates HD by default fine. Can't speak to TW. But if you are serious about this, call them up and find out if they will do it. generally MSO's will (because it's the law).

It's very expensive, but the only option out there that isn't gelded like cablecard.

Thanks,
mike

Thanks Mike. Yeah, I just got off the phone with TW here and they do use the DCT/Moto boxes, so technically it shouldn't be a problem. But now I'm in the inevitable "I have no idea what you're talking about, I think we just lease our own boxes" circle of trying to find someone there who can confirm that they'd be willing to do it.

To the question a minute ago about VOD stuff, explain how that works then. The only VOD I ever order is ESPN's College Football package in the fall. Suppose there's a game on one day that uses that, is there a way for me to record that through Sage? Maybe by directly tuning the channel on the DCP501 and then having Sage record whatever channel it "thinks" it's still on? But no way to have Sage tune to that channel and record it?

Also, I assume this is a single tuner device right? So the only way to record two cable channels through it at once would be to get two DCP501s and two r5000 mods, right? So no ESPNHD and DISCHD at the same time? That kind of stinks, but hopefully with my two current OTA HD cards I'll be able to make due. I seem to remember a time where there was no such thing as DVR, and somehow I was able to survive...

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by popechild

Thanks Mike. Yeah, I just got off the phone with TW here and they do use the DCT/Moto boxes, so technically it shouldn't be a problem. But now I'm in the inevitable "I have no idea what you're talking about, I think we just lease our own boxes" circle of trying to find someone there who can confirm that they'd be willing to do it.

To the question a minute ago about VOD stuff, explain how that works then. The only VOD I ever order is ESPN's College Football package in the fall. Suppose there's a game on one day that uses that, is there a way for me to record that through Sage? Maybe by directly tuning the channel on the DCP501 and then having Sage record whatever channel it "thinks" it's still on? But no way to have Sage tune to that channel and record it?

Also, I assume this is a single tuner device right? So the only way to record two cable channels through it at once would be to get two DCP501s and two r5000 mods, right? So no ESPNHD and DISCHD at the same time? That kind of stinks, but hopefully with my two current OTA HD cards I'll be able to make due. I seem to remember a time where there was no such thing as DVR, and somehow I was able to survive...

I am unfamiliar with how TW does VOD. If it's a channel, then Sage should be able to tune it and schedule it. if you have to go through a set of menus to select the program you want, then I don't think Sage can do that. Still, you should be able to manually select the program you want, and tell sage to blindly record it. That probably will work.

As for the # of tuners, yes, if you want two tuners you'll need 2 R5000-HD's and two DCP501's. However, DISC in my area is transmitted in the clear, so you'll want to make sure and check that. if so, a normal QAM tuner like an HDHomerun will be able to record it, leaving the DCP501 free for other programming. Your OTA cards will not be able to receive QAM programming, encrypted or not.

PS you'll have to escalate this to a supervisor or VIP support desk. Generally the normal folks have no idea as to what to do with a user owned box. I was surprised Comcast was so flexible actually. the SF Bay area folks are quite good.

Thanks,
mike

[popechild]

Originally Posted by mikesm

I am unfamiliar with how TW does VOD. If it's a channel, then Sage should be able to tune it and schedule it. if you have to go through a set of menus to select the program you want, then I don't think Sage can do that. Still, you should be able to manually select the program you want, and tell sage to blindly record it. That probably will work.

As for the # of tuners, yes, if you want two tuners you'll need 2 R5000-HD's and two DCP501's. However, DISC in my area is transmitted in the clear, so you'll want to make sure and check that. if so, a normal QAM tuner like an HDHomerun will be able to record it, leaving the DCP501 free for other programming. Your OTA cards will not be able to receive QAM programming, encrypted or not.

PS you'll have to escalate this to a supervisor or VIP support desk. Generally the normal folks have no idea as to what to do with a user owned box. I was surprised Comcast was so flexible actually. the SF Bay area folks are quite good.

Thanks,
mike

Yeah, from what I've heard, TW here doesn't send anything except OTA stuff in the clear for QAM. What a shame...

[popechild]

Well, as expected, the TW rep called back to say they had spoken to "someone in the warehouse" who said that they don't provision any equipment that they don't lease. So the obvious questions are:

1) Can this be true? They've already said that they lease the Motorola boxes, so are they legally required to provision the DCP501 for me, or is this something that they can choose whether or not to do? And...

2) Assuming they're "supposed" to do it for me, any suggestions on how to work this up the correct chain or use the right magic words with the right person to get someone to be willing to provision this thing? It seems like people always have trouble getting through to someone who can/will do this for them - how did the dam finally break for you?

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by popechild

Well, as expected, the TW rep called back to say they had spoken to "someone in the warehouse" who said that they don't provision any equipment that they don't lease. So the obvious questions are:

1) Can this be true? They've already said that they lease the Motorola boxes, so are they legally required to provision the DCP501 for me, or is this something that they can choose whether or not to do? And...

2) Assuming they're "supposed" to do it for me, any suggestions on how to work this up the correct chain or use the right magic words with the right person to get someone to be willing to provision this thing? It seems like people always have trouble getting through to someone who can/will do this for them - how did the dam finally break for you?

this needs to get escalated. If you have an online support option, a lot of those folks seem better informed than the locals. Eventually, I found someone at comcast through their online support who escalated this to the executive VIP support line, and they knew exactly what to do.

You may want to post on some of the avsforum boards or the DSLreports forum for TW and see what luck others have had.

They are required by statute to provision the box. But some CSR will not understand this. Don't waste your time or theirs and escalate. maybe you could try and call the GM's office for TW in your area. He/she might understand or find out who would. if they refuse to do anything, then say you are filing a complaint with the FCC, and call the media bureau at the FCC and complain. Usually, that gets their attention. :-)

thanks,
mike

[mkanet]

I don't know why I didn't think of this... but if I lease 2 DCT5100's, it's not that much difference in price for me except paying for an addition mod! I'm guessing if I order one of the DVR models which has two tuners, the R5000 is limited to only one tuner per STB.

What channels are on the clear anyway beside local channels?

Originally Posted by mikesm

I am unfamiliar with how TW does VOD. If it's a channel, then Sage should be able to tune it and schedule it. if you have to go through a set of menus to select the program you want, then I don't think Sage can do that. Still, you should be able to manually select the program you want, and tell sage to blindly record it. That probably will work.

As for the # of tuners, yes, if you want two tuners you'll need 2 R5000-HD's and two DCP501's. However, DISC in my area is transmitted in the clear, so you'll want to make sure and check that. if so, a normal QAM tuner like an HDHomerun will be able to record it, leaving the DCP501 free for other programming. Your OTA cards will not be able to receive QAM programming, encrypted or not.

PS you'll have to escalate this to a supervisor or VIP support desk. Generally the normal folks have no idea as to what to do with a user owned box. I was surprised Comcast was so flexible actually. the SF Bay area folks are quite good.

Thanks,
mike

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

I don't know why I didn't think of this... but if I lease 2 DCT5100's, it's not that much difference in price for me except paying for an addition mod! I'm guessing if I order one of the DVR models which has two tuners, the R5000 is limited to only one tuner per STB.

What channels are on the clear anyway beside local channels?

Yes, 2 5100's will need 2 R5000-HD's... :-) All of the current comcast DVR models have firewire outputs, so the NextComm folks will not mod those. Even if they did, it would only be able to record one channel at at time.

The R5000-HD hardware is soldered to 3 pins coming from the decoder in the DCT. It can only capture one MPEG stream at a time.

In the SF Bay Area, all the locals, plus DISC CNN and a few SD channels are in the clear, plus the HD locals, music choice, and local FM station digicasts... At least that's what my headend is sending.

A bunch more were in the clear 2 weeks ago, but then they encrypted them, including my favorite channel, HIST...

Thanks,
mike

[HawgGuy]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

So MPEG4 capture and playback ought to be possible in Sage using these boxes. Or so I understand; I'm not a Dish user myself.

Trust me, it's not. At least not yet for me (or anyone else that I know of).

dish vip-211, r5000hd

[mkanet]

Okay, maybe I'll just stick to 1 5100 + R5000. I just realized that adding an extra box makes a significant difference in the bill when leasing it.

I'm guessing that the HD HomeRun is currently the best dual HDTV tuner with QAM support? Is there a dual tuner external device which connects to the PC via USB 2.0? I only have one Ethernet port near my PC; and, don't want to get a hub/switch just for the the HD HomeRun. Can the USB 2.0's bus handle the bandwidth of (R5000 + 2 HD Tuners)?

-Michael

Originally Posted by mikesm

Yes, 2 5100's will need 2 R5000-HD's... :-) All of the current comcast DVR models have firewire outputs, so the NextComm folks will not mod those. Even if they did, it would only be able to record one channel at at time.

The R5000-HD hardware is soldered to 3 pins coming from the decoder in the DCT. It can only capture one MPEG stream at a time.

In the SF Bay Area, all the locals, plus DISC CNN and a few SD channels are in the clear, plus the HD locals, music choice, and local FM station digicasts... At least that's what my headend is sending.

A bunch more were in the clear 2 weeks ago, but then they encrypted them, including my favorite channel, HIST...

Thanks,
mike

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Can the USB 2.0's bus handle the bandwidth of (R5000 + 2 HD Tuners)?

Do the math. USB 2 bandwidth is nominally 480 Mbit/s or 60 MB/s. HD programming is typically around 6-8 GB/hour or ~2 MB/s.

On the practical side, I run an R5000 and three ATSC tuners on one USB controller without issues.

But given that you were willing to spend $500+ each for two R5000s, another $50 or so for an Ethernet switch doesn't seem like a big deal.

[mkanet]

This may sound like a dumb question, but does the R5000 require anything to run outside of the sageTV software like HD HomeRun? I know that HD HomeRun requires a manager app to constantly run in the background.

PS: Does the "OnAir Solution USB 2.0 HDTV-GT" require any extra software to run in the background as well?

BTW, Just to be clear, I'm not rich or anything close to that... the money for the R5000's was actually meant for a dual Cablecard MCE PC.