Performance Issues with HD and new HTPC

[Mikeydog]

I run:
XLobby HTPC Front end (music & Movies)
PowerDVD
Zoom Player Pro
SageTV (6.16)
6.12 ATI drivers running 1280x720

I just upgraded my HTPC to:
Hitachi 57" rear proj
Denon 2803 receiver
ASUS M2ME
AMD 4200+ DC
2gb DDR2
400gb 7200rpm SATA(64k)
250gb 7200rpm SATA(OS)
ATI X600 256mb
SoundBlaster Audigy 2ZS (SPDIF to Denon)
Hauppauge WinTV 350 (Capture Card)
AVERMediaTV HD180 (HD Capture Card)

I just don't understand how HD isn't smooth. I basically can't watch live HD it pauses every second for a second. When I watch recorded hd it's watchable but it looks like it looses a frame or so every second.

The CPU isn't pegged. it's a duel core, and sage says it's using about 40%. I have tried to force it to a single CPU but no change in performance. The files run the same off of either drive which are both SATA..

Any ideas what I can do to increase my performance or smooth out the HD..

Thanks
Mike

[xred]

You're probably going to get asked for a lot more info, so here comes the first round:

What do you have the decoder settings in SageTV set to?
Are you using VMR or Ovelay?
Do you have Fullscreen mode enabled?

Have you tried changing any / or all of these?

[Mikeydog]

Thanks for the reply. Yes I am using VMR and Full Screen mode. I using the advanced settings in the config wizard.

Another odd thing I have noticed is that sometimes when I watch SD it will be a bit choppy, so I will go to the wizard set it back to standard, test it, then set it back to advanced and test it and it works fine again. ???

Thanks
Mike

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by Mikeydog

Thanks for the reply. Yes I am using VMR and Full Screen mode. I using the advanced settings in the config wizard.

Another odd thing I have noticed is that sometimes when I watch SD it will be a bit choppy, so I will go to the wizard set it back to standard, test it, then set it back to advanced and test it and it works fine again. ???

Thanks
Mike

CGoing in the Config wizard and doing that is nothing more than going into the Detailed setup and switching between overlay and VMR. You need to tell us what video decoder you're using. Also change your settings in detailed setup-video. Set it to a specific decoder and not default. Make sure you have the latest DirectX 9.0 C updates from Dec and the latest Windows Media Player 10 and updates to that. Work from within there and see what happens.

Gerry

[Mikeydog]

All software is the newest. DX9c and vid drivers.

I am using
Vid Renderer is VRM9
vid decoder is sage (i have powerdvd and ffdshow available also)
Audio Renderer is SB Audigy
Audio Decoder is Sage

In SD playback when things are running good I get 30FPS on FRAPS, when I watch HD it hovers around 25 dropping down in the teens every couple seconds, but usually just jumps around 20 to 25..

[cummings66]

While I won't say you have the same issues on playback many of us do with HD and V6, I will say to first install the purevideo stuff and see if it helps.

If it does great, if not then you may not really have FSE enabled. Yes, I know you can check the box but that doesn't mean Sage uses it. Support won't answer back on the details, but basically if something steals focus sage drops FSE and never retakes it, even if it's checked.

You'll be able to tell this if you ever see popup's from things like virus utilities or any other program show up on top of sage.

I have exactly the same problem you do and I know for a fact it's because FSE isn't always on. Also, use the .17 version. The logging is off by default and that caused some Hd playback problems as well for some. IMO the sage decoders aren't up to rendering HD, thus the purevideo suggestion. Yes, it will work on a non nvidia card.

[GTwannabe]

The Radeon X600 is rather wussy for HD. VMR9 may be too much for it to handle in HD... you could try Overlay mode. Another option would be to try the nVidia PureVideo Post Processor to take the video card out of the equation.

I would suggest replacing your X600 with an nVidia 7600GT or 7900GS (both offer full PureVideo support)

[Mikeydog]

Thanks for the info.. I know or at least I'm pretty sure I have FSE enabled, because FRAPS wont run unless it's enabled, and it is running while I watch Sage.

I kinda find it hard to believe that my card can't handle VMR9 for sage being that I am using FFDshow and Zoom player to upscale, sharpen denoise, etc.. movies, using VMR9 Renderless/FSE for DVD's.

But I appreciate the suggestions and will try out the Nvidia purevideo and see if that helps... I've not used it before anyone have a guide or suggested settings for it..

Thanks
Mike

[salsbst]

I suspect that there is something amiss in Sage v6 that is causing problems for Radeon users attempting to run FSE. I know Sage v5 was fine for me, but I am reduced to overlay under Sage v6. I had a sneaking suspicion when I saw this thread that I'd discover you were using a Radeon...

[bcjenkins]

disable_fse_on_focus_lost=

What is your's set to? Mine was true, HD jittery. False, smooth.

Default true

B

[camus]

Originally Posted by Mikeydog

I kinda find it hard to believe that my card can't handle VMR9 for sage being that I am using FFDshow and Zoom player to upscale, sharpen denoise, etc.. movies, using VMR9 Renderless/FSE for DVD's.

I don't, I have a 600 and use overlay exclusively with it, I don't use Sage on that machine. DVD playback and HD playback are entirely different monsters.

IIRC isn't FFDshow more dependent on CPU? I didn't it supported hardware acceleration. I don't use it but am just curious.

[salsbst]

Originally Posted by bcjenkins

disable_fse_on_focus_lost=

What is your's set to? Mine was true, HD jittery. False, smooth.

Default true

B

Woahhhh... I think this might be my fix! I was hesitant to post because this will surely jinx it. I'll play around some more and report back again.

[salsbst]

It was working, I swear. Then, I plugged the laptop back into the docking station and started Sage again, and phooey, stutter is back. I'm going to try to repeat my steps and look for a pattern.

[salsbst]

Ok, sorry for the noise. I have it working again, and I want to memorialize what I think I'm seeing.

The first thing is that I set the decoders (audio and video) to default (which ends up meaning Nvidia video and AC3 audio).

Another thing is that I start Sage in Windowed (as opposed to full screen) mode.

It seems that if I do those things, I get clean VMR9 rendering.

***

After further review, it appears that Sage is happier if I jump to full screen from a windowed mode *while video is playing back*. If I let Sage start in full screen, I have problems. If I let it get comfortable in a window, then going to fullscreen doesn't cause stutter.

I'm excited to be making progress. I think all of this is possible due to the registry setting to disable_fse_on_focus_lost=false, but there appears to be more to it on my machine.... the plot thickens.

[salsbst]

More progress.

It seems that the trick is to get Sage to render a new media graph in Windowed mode. Once that is accomplished, I can switch to full screen while the video is playing, and I still don't get stutters. I do, however, see some tearing.

I can repeat this pattern now. I'm going to work on getting a log file and reporting it to SageTV via the bug page.

[salsbst]

Ugg. It's more complicated than I thought. It seems that some HD shows are more prone to stuttering and tearing than others. I'm going to disable logging and try again.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by salsbst

I'm going to disable logging and try again.

You may know this already, but if you suspect debug logging is part of the issue, then you could try setting logging_flush_each_entry=false so it doesn't write the log after every debug line.

- Andy

[salsbst]

Thanks, Andy. That's where I have it set for now.

[salsbst]

Well, I'm starting to become more comfortable with the pattern, though there must still be some variables that I don't understand.

One thing that is odd is that the tearing on HD recordings is vertical rather than horizontal. I've only seen horizontal tearing before. This vertical tearing is always on the right edge of the screen.

Also, generally Sage doesn't like my firewire recordings. Even after going through my motions to make Sage stutter free in VMR9, I still get a little stuttering and almost constant tearing on my firewire HDTV recordings. Non-HD firewire recordigns are ok, though, and other HD (HDHomeRun-sourced) are okay.

Alas, my wife is home now, so I'm going to close up the troubleshooting for tonight. I'm glad to have made such progress today, and hopeful that things are starting to look up.

Thanks bcjenkins for the tip.

[Mikeydog]

Ok well I think I have mine a little better tuned up. Last night I tried setting

Detailed Setup
Video
---------------------
Renderer = VMR9
MPEG2 = Nvidia (I can also use PowerDVD with good results)

Audio
---------------------
Renderer = SB Audigy
MPEG2 SageTV

It seems to be working pretty good. With FRAPS turned on I am getting a solid 60FPS with recorded SD and 55 to 60 with Recorded HD. I am getting 60FPS with live SD and 55-60 with Live HD with a little drop here or there with the HD..

I have had SAGE lock up twice though on trying to close HD content. And it locks up real good. The sage icon sits there and spins but I cannot exit Sage or access anything else such as task manager. I have to hard reboot to get control back..

Thanks
Mike