HD Capture card advise sought

[roxy99]

I have a hauppauge dual 500 connected to 2 SDTV Satellite boxes. I'd like to subscribe to HD service from my Satelite provider but still want to keet my SDTV tuners and dual Haupauge 500 installed with program guide enabled for SDTV stations.

I am running SageTV 5.0.04

My questions are:

1) Whats the most recommended hassle free HD capture card?

2) How to I set Sage so that the program guide for HD channels is only available to the HD Capture device? The EPG lineup for my Satellite provider has only 2 choices Basic and Extened. Do I make the Basic lineup with all SDTV selected for the non-HD and then selected extended line-up for the HD and only enable HD Channels? Is Sage smart enough not to mix things up?

[blade]

You can't capture HD from sat through a HD capture card. They can only do OTA or QAM from the cable company (only 2 can currently do this with Sage).

I believe you need a specially modified stb in order to capure HD from sat and they're very pricey. If you search for r5000 you should find plenty of info to get you up to speed.

[roxy99]

Drats that's too bad. I guess I'll have to bypass Sage and tollerate commercials and old fashoined live TV on my HD satelite tuner.

What about digital HD from a cable company?

[Mark SS]

Roxy99 - add your location to your profile as its makes difference for topics like this.

In the UK there is now a solution for recording HD channels from Sky using a DVB-S2 card. Unfortunately Sage doesn't yet support DVB-S2 or h.264, although it is apparently on the todo list.

As Blade said there aren't any consumer cards that can capture HD from a set-top box yet.

[jmiddleton]

Many HD STBs have a firewire port that can be used to connect to your computer. There is a massive thread discussing how to use this with SageTV http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...light=firewire
This only works for unencrypted content. You'll need an HDCP compliant system to view premium channels or HD-DVD's. Vista is HDCP compliant and we're starting to see HDMI video cards reach market. HDMI capture cards are easy to make but won't work until you have a HDCP compliant media center. The digital content protection is messy and will take some time to sort itself out. Don't plan on burning your own HD DVD's from ripped or captured content - at least not until someone cracks the HDCP encryption.

[ybrew]

Sage user in Texas.

I just want a hassle-free HD card to use with for OTA HD. My system has 2 hauppauge 500s and I'm very happy with them.

Are there any dual-tuner HD cards? If not, I'd probably want 2 (or maybe even 3) HD tuner cards to add to my system.

What's a good, relatively inexpensive HD card recommended now?

[foolio]

Originally Posted by ybrew

Sage user in Texas.

I just want a hassle-free HD card to use with for OTA HD. My system has 2 hauppauge 500s and I'm very happy with them.

Are there any dual-tuner HD cards? If not, I'd probably want 2 (or maybe even 3) HD tuner cards to add to my system.

What's a good, relatively inexpensive HD card recommended now?

I'd recommend the HDHomerun device:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20549

-Double tuners; OTA and QAM
-No wasted PCI slots
-great OTA reception (better than my fusion HDTV)
-very responsive developer.
-relatively inexpensive given what you get: $179

[ybrew]

I've heard about that, and actually joined their forum, but I really need to research it a bit more.

Got some reading to do this weekend I guess.

[roxy99]

That thread you linked RE:- Firewire plugin- is pretty daunting. It looks as though HD is pretty Beta for DVR HTPC setups. Lots of users using it but there is no easy magic answer then. I was hoping for a kind of simple plug and play solution. SDTV was so easy to set up with Sage in comparison.

[domc]

I think this question is going to be coming up a lot since so many people are going to be getting HDTV for Christmas.

I still think we are about a year away from a HTPC supported HDTV (Sat/Cable HDTV) and two years or so before a "crack" happens to record HDTV shows to DVD. Just my opinion.

SDTV looks like crap on HDTV to begin with. I won't use Over the Air HDTV since I don't watch a lot of network tv (mostly the other cable channels) to justify the cost of buying a card and upgrading SageTV.

So I will be sitting back and enjoying my upconverted DVD's on my new HDTV and watch regular TV/Cable on my usual 27inch SDTV for another two years.
Yuck!

[blade]

Originally Posted by domc

SDTV looks like crap on HDTV to begin with.

Either this is highly subjective or a lot of people just have poor SD signals to begin with. I've seen a lot of people talk about how horrible it looks yet many people watch SD on HD sets. If it really looked like "crap" I doubt there would be that many people doing it.

[ybrew]

I'll report back on how good or bad it looks in about 3 weeks

[domc]

Yes I believe quality is subjective. I will also say that if you buy an HDTV this season, you better be prepared to buy upgraded latest greatest equipment from your cable/satellite supplier also. Will this make a difference? I don't know.

I'm wondering though. I'm still using an older model 508 from Dishnetwork. If I get a more recent Pvr box or even there HD/SDTV Pvr box, will the SDTV channels be upconverted (like regular DVD's on HDTV) to hdtv and look better?

I still think that using an 480 res and blow it up to a 720/1080 is just not going to look good. Similair to when you view a youtube video on your computer and blow it up to full screen or better yet, the way google videos look in SageTV right now. <grin>

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by domc

If I get a more recent Pvr box or even there HD/SDTV Pvr box, will the SDTV channels be upconverted (like regular DVD's on HDTV) to hdtv and look better?

The first thing you have to realize is everything, and I mean everything is upconverted on an HDTV. Lots of people probably don't realize that, the reason is because the input signal almost never matches the display resolution of the TV. So say you go out and buy a fancy 1080p HDTV. Everything you watch on that, be it overcompressed digital 480i, to overcompressed broadcast 1080i or 720p, to spectacualar HD DVD or Blu-ray (maybe output at 1080i) will all be "upconverted" to 1080p by the TV to display it.

Now, the question, will it look better? It depends, it depends on which device does a better job of the processing necessary to convert source format to 1080p.

Odds are, between a "cheap" dish box and the "cheap" electronics in an HDTV, it's probably a draw.

I still think that using an 480 res and blow it up to a 720/1080 is just not going to look good.

Oh, anybody who's seen DVD on my setup would disagree with that. DVD, which is usually 2.35:1 thus only about 720x360, scaled to 1280x720 on a 110x46" screen looks very good, as good, or better than some HD out there. Now, it doesn't match HD DVD, but it's plenty good enough for me to be happy watching my DVD collection.

Now Dish, definitely not as good as DVD. Quality varies channel to channel, some are better than others, but 99% of the time, it's perfectly acceptable on that size screen. Granted one can see all the defects, but, and maybe my expectations of SD have fallen, but it's definitely watchable.

Similair to when you view a youtube video on your computer and blow it up to full screen or better yet, the way google videos look in SageTV right now. <grin>

Fortunately, I have yet to see any "real" content look that bad.

[roxy99]

Originally Posted by blade

Either this is highly subjective or a lot of people just have poor SD signals to begin with. I've seen a lot of people talk about how horrible it looks yet many people watch SD on HD sets. If it really looked like "crap" I doubt there would be that many people doing it.

My good ole 27" SDTV (good quality JVC) does a better job with SDTV signal than my HDTV tv. I thinnk my SDTV signal is good for what it is but upscaled on my HDTV looks bad.

That could be my mpeg2 deinterlacer and scaler on my PC is crap or my HDTV is crap. Either way, until I get a HDTV cable box, I barely use my 60inch HDTV other than to watch DVDs.

I'll have to settle for non-timeshifted live HD TV on the HDTV set and keep Sage for SDTV. Hopefully broadcasters will keep SDTV around for a few more years.

[domc]

I was listening to a review of HDTV's yesterday and they mentioned that some HDTV's do a very good job with SDTV. One of the models was the one I have. My opinion is that is does not do a good job even with a direct connection to my Sat Box. I have a 27inch too and it looks a lot better (sage) on SDTV. There are to many variables like you mentioned above. To find the right combination (deinterlacing, etc.) is just a pain and not worth my time.

So I'm like the one above. Use HDTV for DVD playback and SDTV for sage watching.

Wonder what an XBOX with Media Center with there HD-DVD player look like on HDTV? I think the cost would be around $500 I think for that setup.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by domc

Wonder what an XBOX with Media Center with there HD-DVD player look like on HDTV?

HD DVD looks very nice. The HD DVD player doesn't have any magic for SD though.

[blade]

Originally Posted by roxy99

My good ole 27" SDTV (good quality JVC) does a better job with SDTV signal than my HDTV tv. I thinnk my SDTV signal is good for what it is but upscaled on my HDTV looks bad.

That could be my mpeg2 deinterlacer and scaler on my PC is crap or my HDTV is crap. Either way, until I get a HDTV cable box, I barely use my 60inch HDTV other than to watch DVDs.

I'll have to settle for non-timeshifted live HD TV on the HDTV set and keep Sage for SDTV. Hopefully broadcasters will keep SDTV around for a few more years.

I've said this many times yet no one ever listens. I'm talking about comparing SD and HD sets of the same or similar size. You're comparing SD on a 27" set to a 60" HD. Of course all the defects in the SD signal are going to be much more obvious on the larger display. Try comparing your 60" HD set to a 60" SD. Or your 27" SD to a 27" HD and you'll get a much more meaningful comparision.

SD has plenty of imperfections and the larger the screen the easier they'll be to spot. If the differences you notice are due to the difference in screen size it doesn't prove your SDTV is handling SD content better than the larger HDTV because you're comparing apples and oranges.

[blade]

Originally Posted by domc

I was listening to a review of HDTV's yesterday and they mentioned that some HDTV's do a very good job with SDTV. One of the models was the one I have. My opinion is that is does not do a good job even with a direct connection to my Sat Box.

I have a 27inch too and it looks a lot better (sage) on SDTV. There are to many variables like you mentioned above. To find the right combination (deinterlacing, etc.) is just a pain and not worth my time.

The first step with a HDTV and SD signal is to get it looking as good as possible with straight cable, sat, etc... As you guys pointed out there are far too many variables in a HTPC to use that as your starting point. I'm the first to admit my HDTV looked horrible with a SD signal when I first got it. I had to run new coax, add a signal amp, new splitters, etc.. Once I had the cleanest signal possible I calibrated my display to give me the best picture possible with the built in tuner. After I got the PQ up to par I started working to get my HTPC to match what I had gotten out of the built in tuner.

So I'm like the one above. Use HDTV for DVD playback and SDTV for sage watching.

Personally I wouldn't feel Sage was worth the time or money if I couldn't use it on my primary TV, but everyone is different.

[jmiddleton]

For those who are disappointed viewing SageTV on their HD sets, how are you connecting the HD TV? if the answer is anything but DVI or HDMI you are not giving the TV a chance. The quality on your TV should be as good or better than the quality on your monitor. I'm less concerned with the relative size of the display than Blade because I assume the viewing distance will be greater for a larger screen. You might sit 2 feet from a 19" monitor and 10-12 feet from a 60" HDTV. The noticability of any imperfections will be counterbalanced by the distance between your eye and the screen. In my experience, Sage does an excellent job of upscaling the picture and, since I am very sensitive to flicker, I love the fact that the picture is flicker free. For my own setup, I am using a 52" LG DLP as the monitor for my HTPC connected by a DVI to HDMI cable. It's configured for 1280x768 with large fonts and is perfectly legible from my La-Z-Boy 10 feet away. I control the system with a Gyration keyboard and mouse. My digital cable box connects to the computer through S-Video and I watch DVD's using Sage and the computer DVD burner. Quality is superb - I gave my 32" conventional TV away a few days after getting this setup working. I have no doubt that HD content will look even better but we don't have broadcast HD in my corner of the world and there is no good way to get cable/satellite HD into the PC yet (which is where this thread started) so I'll be watching SD for a while yet. With this setup, it's no hardship.