Hardware Acceleration

Mike Young · #1 10-30-2003, 06:34 PM

(from HTPCnews interview )
"DXVA is supported by a much larger variety of MPEG2 decoders for use with the Overlay Mixer (very few decoders support DXVA with the VMR9). The most notable is the "InterVideo NonCSS Video Decoder for Hauppauge", which is the decoder that comes with the Hauppauge capture cards. It cannot use DXVA with the VMR9, but it can with the Overlay Mixer."

This is great information! I was begining to suspect that DXVA was not being utilized on my system now I am sure.
Whenever I try to force DXVA (select mpeg mode A or B) with Overlay on and using the Intervideo drivers I get the message :

There was an error with the MPEG-2 video setup Failed rendering MPEG-2 video stream using Directx video acceleration media-type
I dont get the error with C or D but CPU usage is about 30% when recording, which still seems too high, it is about 2% when sage is sleeping. Nowhere have I found any exact and clear description of what these modes do other than control deinterlacing in some way.

The PowerDVD codec, as I mentioned in a previous post does not work at all in Overlay Mode it fails with a similar error but doesnt say anything about Acceleration. The PowerDVD will work in VMR mode, but CPU usage is 60% or more, which tells me Acceleration is not on.

Since DXVA is the "key" to SageTV performance it would be great to get this feature enabled and to have some sure-fire way to tell that it is enabled.

mike/

Narflex · #2 10-30-2003, 07:06 PM

If you've got the DXVA MPEG Mode set to A, B, C or D and you do NOT get an error message; then you can be sure that it's using DXVA.

Mike Young · #3 10-31-2003, 05:23 AM

Ok I'll take your word for it, but should CPU usage be that high with the Hauppauge and using DXVA ? Why won't modes A or B work ? What exactly is the difference between them ? Why wont the PowerDVD codec work in overlay ? In VM the PowerDVD codec is running at about 50 - 60% so there is definitely better preformance using the intervideo drivers, I was expecting to only see about 10% cpu though.

thanks,

mike/

mlbdude · #4 10-31-2003, 05:39 AM

I am not possitive but I think mpeg DVXA and hardware acceleration through a decoder are different.

I too would like to know what each DXVA MPEG Mode is. Maybe it is different between each decoder and video card.

One item of note, I would agree that something is working. SS users are getting around 30-40% CPU usage with the Hauppauge Intervideo registry settings turned on (way over 50% with them off). I get under 10%, and get around 40-50% with the Elecard decoder which does not support hardware acceleration.

Mike Young · #5 10-31-2003, 07:18 AM

Yeah, about 10% is what I am thinking it shoud be, but I dont want to contradict Mr. K. because I have no way to prove it ! but I dont think there is any way that I am getting Hardware Accel.
I input a support request to ATI, trying to find out if there is a utility that can monitor if an app is utilizing DXVA.

mlbdude · #6 10-31-2003, 07:27 AM

ATI support call would be good. I notice my CPU usage with DXVA on with the Intervideo codec is around 40% with drivers 3.7 and 8% with 3.6. I guess I will try 3.8. I read on the AVS forums though that it is broken in 3.8.

Mike Young · #7 10-31-2003, 07:32 AM

3.7 are the ones I am running, I have versions going way back though so I could try that. Im kinda scared of 3.8.

falchulk · #8 10-31-2003, 07:48 AM

It depends on your video card and system. I have a m10000 that I originally used for sage. With the reg setting to 1 it got 45% for live tv (record and play at the same time) and 5% for just record. With it off I got 80% for live TV. Recently I had some lockups and wanted to do other things with my PC as well. I ordered a new shuttle system with a 2700+ athlon processor. It has a on board geforce4 card that has a mpeg2 hardware decoder. I can turn off software decoding entirely and get 8% for live tv (and DVD as well)! Since the shuttle has 2 vga out and svideo, I can connect to my TV as well as a monitor and have a diffrent desktop on the monitor then TV. I have 30FT of monior extension cable connected to the PC in my family room and going to a monitor in my breakfast nook. Using my new gyration compact mouse/keboard suite, my wife can surf the net, do finances, or work on recipes wile the rest of the family uses sage. All of my emulators (mame to nintendo64) can also be run on the monitor without effecting sage in the slightest. I now know what people with the pvr350 can look forward to. The diffrence is I get it now! Anyway, my point is, its all in the hardware you have as to how much good acceleration will do for your CPU usage.

ToxMox · #9 10-31-2003, 08:02 AM

Falchulk:
I'm just curious. What Shuttle motherboard is that?

mlbdude · #10 10-31-2003, 08:54 AM

Just noticed that I had upgraded to the version 4 Hauppauge Intervideo codecs and was still editing the old registry keys. The new keys did the trick again and the CPU is down below 10%. Image quality is still not there with this codec (deinterlacing mainly) but at least I know it is there if I want it.

Mike Young · #11 10-31-2003, 08:57 AM

Well your hardware config is going to have alot to do with it...I am running a Radeon 9200, and 2500XP +.
Originaly I thought I was doing pretty good....but I was checking CPU when sage was sleeping.....once I go full screen things change dramatically.
I hate to invest the time, but Im considering Ghosting off what I have and reloading from scratch.

mike/

mlbdude · #12 10-31-2003, 09:04 AM

I am using a Radeon 9000. But I am testing with the Hauppauge supplied Intervideo codec. I actually use the Elecard codec and that does not support DXVA so I get the usual 45% CPU usage with that.

falchulk · #13 10-31-2003, 09:24 AM

I have the sb61g2 I paid 270 for it but a week later that put a $60 rebate up instead of $30). What I can do now is unreal. I mean, I have another 2700+ but its a tower and loud as hell. This little thing is realitively quiet and does everything I want it to and more. It goes to sleep and wakes up with out a video hitch (m10000 wakes up and I had to go from full to window and back to get video). It wakes up, records, goes back to sleep. It has the nforce 2 sound and combinded with my klipisch system sounds incredible. FYI, if I use the intervideo sound codec, I can get fullscreen live TV at 6%. I like the nvdvd sound codec better though and 8% is still unbeliveable. The overscan is also much better then my m10000. The m10000 blows up so that much of the apps toolbar's are offscreen. The shuttle does it just enough so that I can still see the tool bars and max/minimize buttons on my apps. I thought sage on my m10000 was a HTPC. I have this system only about %80 configured (cutomizing/loading apps/setting remote control for use in emulators/configuring wireless gamepad/x10 appliance and light control/sage and myhtpc) and it blows me away how much better it is. I can play halo PC or macpayne 2 (New high end PC games)on my TV while sage records my wifes soap opera's. I just can't say enough about how much I love this system. The only drawback was my gyration suite (30ft+ RF without a hitch) is usb and has issues waking the system. I had to attach a reciver from an IR keyboard I had sitting around. I bought a RCA 9 function LCD learning remote and programed it with space from the keboard to wake it up. I also programmed the PVR250 remotes functions as well as the TV.
So even though it was a hassle, it made my system so much better (and a larger cool factor)in the long run.

Mike Young · #14 10-31-2003, 11:01 AM

last week I discovered I had originally edited the old registry settings too. But now both of them are edited.
All of the responses so far have further supported my assertion that DXVA is NOT being implemented on my machine for whatever reason, even when forceing mpeg mode A or B. From what I gather the mpeg modes control the de-interlacing so it would be interesting to see the differences.
mlbdude - are you able to access all modes with the intervideo in Overlay mode ?
I may try putting my 9000 pro in...and try to replicate your setup if thats the case.

mike/

mlbdude · #15 10-31-2003, 11:04 AM

I tried modes A-D last night and did not get any errors. I could not tell any differences between them. But I did this without DXVA enabled in the encoder. I will try again tonight with it on.

Mike Young · #16 11-03-2003, 07:00 AM

Did some more experimentation this weekend.
Uninstalled old Cat drivers, installed new 3.8 Cat drivers.
(Contrary to reports I experienced NO problems from 3.8 cats.)
drained CMOS and Reset my motherboard settings to Optimal.
Checked codecs - still cannot use cyberlink in Overlay mode, however....using intervideo, VMR mode C or D, using only about 10 - 12% cpu now when viewing TV!
Install New PVR-250 drivers... (1.17)
Now using intervideo can get ALL mpeg modes using VMR!
CPU when recording = 8%
Bad news is :
CPU when viewing live TV = 20 - 33%
why would Pvr drivers effect live TV cpu ?
duh..Because when I uninstalled registry hack was probably wiped out (have to check this )
Checked the Cyberlink codec...
VMR mpeg mode A - D CPU useage 50% when viewing live TV
Overlay - Fails in all modes - still no overlay with cyberlink driver ???

mlbdude · #17 11-03-2003, 07:47 AM

Any comments onf video\deinterlacing quality with the different MPEG modes?

Mike Young · #18 11-03-2003, 08:33 AM

I honestly have not been able to tell any difference between the modes! there is no indication that there is a difference except maybe a slight change in CPU usage. This is one reason I'm currious to see the cyberlink decoder work, to see if there is any difference there.
What I'm kind of wondering is...I have All the deinterlacing features of the Radeon tweaked all the way up....maybe the MPEG mode deinterlacing only makes a real difference if you video card is not doing any deinterlacing.

Mike Young · #19 11-03-2003, 08:48 AM

Regarding video quality....its all pretty acceptable, it could be a little sharper, but then I dont have the most ideal setup right now, I am going out of Svid, into a switchbox then out of the switchbox and into composites on one tv and out of switchbox coax into Living room TV. This is probably completley defeating the "tuning" capbabitlites for the svid out of the radeon. Interestingly, the tv with the Coax does have a much better picture, not sure if its because its a better TV.
One other note...I have primarily been watching TV shows off Sage and felt like I could always tell it was recorded, I recorded Warren Miller's "Cold Fusion" last week and watched it this weekend, the quality was stunning! I could tell no difference from watching a DVD. I recorded it off Encore, dont know if there was something different about the signal or what maybe less compression ? I know that movies are usually film and TV most TV shows are video, but that doesnt explain the apparent no loss in signal quality...or does it ?

Mike Young · #20 11-03-2003, 07:21 PM

Well...I re-enabled the registry "hack" now the intervideo drivers do not work in ANY mode under VMR other than default !
By selecting Default on mpeg mode they will work, however CPU is up to 40%.

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