VistaView Saber 2020

[bjterry62]

Okay, I went with this card after fighting with the PVR-500 (Samsung tuners)for a month. Originally, the PQ was not bad. Now it has gotten to where after about every third reboot of the system, I get total static on Live TV and have to go try other decoder / renderer options. The ones that worked before, do not work now. I can eventually get it working with another combination, then after a few reboots, it does it again. I can't seem to figure out what is causing this. Has anyone else tried this card yet an if so, have you seen this behavior? For that matter, has anyone seen this behavior with ANY card?

My Setup:
Antec NSK2400
MSI K8NGM2-FID
Kingston VR single 512
Samgung Spinpoint 20gb notebook drive (OS)
Seagate 400gb SATA2 (Recording)
NEC DVD RW
VistaView Saber 2020
On-board sound and video

Thanks,

BT

[PGPfan]

FWIW, I have the same m/b, case, and tuner as you. I haven't seen this problem, it might be a defective tuner. Have you tried contacting VistaView? I've found them to be very helpful in the past.

-PGPfan

[bjterry62]

Your sig appears to state that the VV Saber is on the Foxconn system. Is it actually on the MSI? If so, are you using on-board video? I saw in some other threads where some issues were cleared up with this MB by getting a separate graphics card (yes, I want to avoid this). If you have the VV Saber running on Sage on the MSI MB, could you PLEASE post your decoder / renderer setup info for Video / Audio and DVD. Also, if you remember, did you load the decoders before or after loading Sage? I am beginning to think that the order that decoders are loaded onto the system affects Sage's performance.

The reason being. I had this setup working okay and decided to load PowerDVD because I don't like the DVD section of Sage. I installed PowerDVD and set it up to autorun whenever a DVD was inserted. I then rebooted and DVD's played perfect. I try to run Live TV in Sage and it's nothing but static where it was working okay before the PowerDVD install. What changed? Apparently the "Defaults" in Sage change whenever another type of decoder / renderer/ etc is installed. This really kind of pisses me off. I mean, should I fear loading any new software when I finally have my Sage box up and running? If so, I'm going to look for another app!

Thanks for the info,

BT

[blade]

Originally Posted by bjterry62

Apparently the "Defaults" in Sage change whenever another type of decoder / renderer/ etc is installed. This really kind of pisses me off. I mean, should I fear loading any new software when I finally have my Sage box up and running? If so, I'm going to look for another app!

The defaults in Sage use the windows default. The last decoder installed is the one windows assigns as the default decoder. Dumping Sage because of the way windows handles new decoders seems rather silly. Anyway, most people suggest selecting the decoders by name instead of simply choosing default to avoid the problem you saw.

Also the decoders have nothing to do with capture and regardless of what decoder you choose none of them will cause you to see static. As PGPfan said, it sounds like you have a defective tuner.

[Polypro]

The "Defaults" Change in Windows, Sage just uses what Windows uses if Default is selected. You can specify which decoder you want Sage to always use, if you want. You can also install MS's DECCHECK to show you what codec is the default, and change the default if another codec takes priority. For example, if you install AC3 Filter, you'll see it as the new default for Windows Media Player in DVD>Advanced.

P

Edit: Too Slow!

[bjterry62]

Originally Posted by blade

The defaults in Sage use the windows default. The last decoder installed is the one windows assigns as the default decoder. Dumping Sage because of the way windows handles new decoders seems rather silly. Anyway, most people suggest selecting the decoders by name instead of simply choosing default to avoid the problem you saw.

Also the decoders have nothing to do with capture and regardless of what decoder you choose none of them will cause you to see static. As PGPfan said, it sounds like you have a defective tuner.

Problem is, when I installed PowerDVD, the decoder / renderer was Sage / Overlay.

I'm well aware decoders have nothing to do with capture. The issue is not with capturing, it's with playback. Live TV playback was nothing but snow when earlier it had been okay. All I did was install PowerDVD. The decoder /renderer configuration was not set at default at the time. But yet SOMETHING caused this. BTW, I can do a System Restore to back before the PowerDVD installation and playback is okay again. I was originally suspect of the tuner, but it plays fine with the VV software. So, I would still like to see someone elses configuration that is using the same hardware as me. Screenshots would be fine. I'll even give you my email address so you don't have to find a place to post them. BTW, my MB bios is 3.5.

Thanks,

BT

[bjterry62]

Originally Posted by Polypro

The "Defaults" Change in Windows, Sage just uses what Windows uses if Default is selected. You can specify which decoder you want Sage to always use, if you want. You can also install MS's DECCHECK to show you what codec is the default, and change the default if another codec takes priority. For example, if you install AC3 Filter, you'll see it as the new default for Windows Media Player in DVD>Advanced.

P

Edit: Too Slow!

I haven't used the default decoder, but I HAVE used the default renderer a few times (but not this time). I'm beginning to think I may have a MB vid problem. I have an x700 ATI expansion card laying around that I will try. Perhaps that will help. If not, I will try another MB.

Thanks,

BT

[PGPfan]

Originally Posted by bjterry62

Your sig appears to state that the VV Saber is on the Foxconn system. Is it actually on the MSI? If so, are you using on-board video? I saw in some other threads where some issues were cleared up with this MB by getting a separate graphics card (yes, I want to avoid this). If you have the VV Saber running on Sage on the MSI MB, could you PLEASE post your decoder / renderer setup info for Video / Audio and DVD. Also, if you remember, did you load the decoders before or after loading Sage? I am beginning to think that the order that decoders are loaded onto the system affects Sage's performance.

The reason being. I had this setup working okay and decided to load PowerDVD because I don't like the DVD section of Sage. I installed PowerDVD and set it up to autorun whenever a DVD was inserted. I then rebooted and DVD's played perfect. I try to run Live TV in Sage and it's nothing but static where it was working okay before the PowerDVD install. What changed? Apparently the "Defaults" in Sage change whenever another type of decoder / renderer/ etc is installed. This really kind of pisses me off. I mean, should I fear loading any new software when I finally have my Sage box up and running? If so, I'm going to look for another app!

Thanks for the info,

BT

Thanks for pointing that out in my sig. I had for a while been playing 'musical chairs/pc's' getting my system the way I wanted and my sig reflects the FINAL setup. I WAS using the MSI board (great board, btw but not enough expansion slots for me to use as my Sage server), but the Foxconn is now my Sage server board. I know it was working on the MSI, but I never used PowerDVD, only TheaterTek so it's not identical to yours.

Still, I haven't seen anything like this before. Is the VistaView your only tuner card, or do you have another you could use to help isolate the problem?

-PGPfan

[bjterry62]

Originally Posted by PGPfan

Thanks for pointing that out in my sig. I had for a while been playing 'musical chairs/pc's' getting my system the way I wanted and my sig reflects the FINAL setup. I WAS using the MSI board (great board, btw but not enough expansion slots for me to use as my Sage server), but the Foxconn is now my Sage server board. I know it was working on the MSI, but I never used PowerDVD, only TheaterTek so it's not identical to yours.

Still, I haven't seen anything like this before. Is the VistaView your only tuner card, or do you have another you could use to help isolate the problem?

-PGPfan

Not a problem. No the VV Saber is not the only card I have. As a matter of fact, I was trying out this MB / Tuner combo to replace my previous setup (MSI RS482M2-IL, A64 3200, software tuner). Since I only have one case, I had to pull my the aforementioned hardware out of the NSK2400 and install this MB / Tuner / 2.5 Hdd to try the Saber and Sage out. I can put back the old hardware and the thing up and running in 20min. But, I want to get the Saber working so that I have dual tuners.

I am beginning to be suspect of this MB. As I mentioned in my first post, I was attempting to use a PVR-500 a month or so back. At that time I was running into PQ problems and inconsistancies with most of the tuner cards I tried (3). I finally switched to the MSI ATI setup becasue the beginning of the viewing season for the shows that we like was coming up. I never got to try the PVR-500 with the RS482 because it was deemed defective by the retailer and was returned for replacement. However, it seems somewhat coincidental that I am again having issues with tuner cards on this same MB. I think that this weekend, I will try reloading everything on the 6150 setup. First drivers, codecs then Sage and if that doesn't work, I'll switch over to the RS482 and try that. I'll try to post the results.

BT

[ARMYB77]

Not to question anyone, but I always thought snow on live TV ment your tuner wasn't tuning in on the right frequency (channel). I know that the Saber 2020 has updated drivers on their website that allows you to control your RF input via a sys tray icon. What may be happening is that the Saber may think that you have one of your tuners set to FM radio (another words all you would see is static) If you update your drivers with the new one that controls the RF control maybe that will fix the problem.
I know there are problems with the 6150 chipset from NVIDIA, but this problem has nothing to do with that in my opinion. Besides most people if they use the ASUS video drivers for the 6150 have no problems what so ever. (I know you have an MSI, but ASUS drivers seem to work).

So like I said I think that your card is trying to use it's second tuner, and it thinks that it is a FM tuner instead of a TV Tuner, changing your encoder/decoder combos is just a way that you have found to kick it loose so that it returns to the TV Tuner you want.

Make any sense?

ArmyB77

[blade]

Originally Posted by ARMYB77

Not to question anyone, but I always thought snow on live TV ment your tuner wasn't tuning in on the right frequency (channel).

That's why I said the problem wasn't the decoders. Sounds like the tuner isn't working properly then after multiple attempts to play something (repeatedly changing the decoders and attempting to play another show) it finally tunes a station.

I don't see how it would be possible for a decoder to cause "static" during playback. Static and snow are analog issues and the decoder deals with a digital recording.

bjterry62 says it is a playback problem in which case it should affect pre-recorded shows as well as "live TV" and those same shows should playback properly once changing the decoders "fixes" the problem.

[bjterry62]

Here's an update for those interested.

This issue I am having with this tuner is kind of twofold.

1.) With SageTV, I am having some issues with PQ during LiveTV with the Saber 2020. What works one time doesn't always work after a reboot (and sometimes just Sage restart). So, I believe that it is a Sage problem because Tuner 0 looks great with the Vista View PVR app and BTV. Okay, that's that one.

2.) With the Vista View PVR app and BTV, I have a great picture with Tuner 0 but no picture with Tuner 1. I have read in another message board that there is an issue with Tuner 1 not receiving a signal when the cable is only connected to the RF1 input. Some say I should use a splitter and connect to RF2 also and some say there is a tray app with the new drivers that takes care of this "Known loopthrough" issue. I am using the drivers from the VV website and I haven't noticed a tray app. But then again, I haven't been looking for one. I am at work now and will have to check this when i get home tonight. I will post what I find.

Now, with all that being said, I would like to get the Sage issue worked out because I own Sage and not BTV. I also like the greater functionality of Sage, but the issue with the decoders is driving me bonkers. Last night for example. I launch Sage and VIOLA!! Pretty good PQ with Live TV. I check the configuration, becasue I can't remember what I set it at last, and its Purevideo / Overlay. I leave it alone, close Sage and run BTV because it is set to record Lost. After the recording, I close BTV and open Sage, Live TV is all snow again. Here we go again. Now, when I go into Sources Configuration, it shows Tuner 0 as True for Live TV and Tuner 1 as False. At one time over the last few days, it showed False on both of them, which I thought was kinda wierd. I'm pretty sure that I remember getting video on both Tuner 0 and Tuner 1 at some time over the last few days, but currently, Tuner 1 is snow. What I plan to do over the next few days is get Tuner 1 working in the VV PVR app so that I know both are working. Once I get that going, I will see what happens in Sage. Possibly Sage is switching tuners on me, for some strang reason, and that's why I'm getting a picture one time and snow the next. If I can't get Tuner 1 working, I will remove Tuner 1 from the Sources in Sage and see if I still have the snow anomale. Either way, I'm going to figure this out.

Any comments & sorry for the long post.

BT

[blade]

Originally Posted by bjterry62

With the Vista View PVR app and BTV, I have a great picture with Tuner 0 but no picture with Tuner 1. I have read in another message board that there is an issue with Tuner 1 not receiving a signal when the cable is only connected to the RF1 input.

I'm not familiar with the card, but if that is true I think that would explain your problem in Sage.

Some say I should use a splitter and connect to RF2 also and some say there is a tray app with the new drivers that takes care of this "Known loopthrough" issue.

If there is a problem I'd definetly just use a splitter and not rely on software to fix the problem because you never know when a glitch or future update might break something.

Possibly Sage is switching tuners on me, for some strang reason, and that's why I'm getting a picture one time and snow the next. If I can't get Tuner 1 working, I will remove Tuner 1 from the Sources in Sage and see if I still have the snow anomale. Either way, I'm going to figure this out.

That is what I would guess is happening. I have 4 tuners and Sage doesn't always use the first one listed for live TV. The easiest thing to do is hook a splitter up to both rf connections. If that doesn't work then I'd try disabling the 2nd tuner.

[bjterry62]

Thanks Blade,

Yeah, I'm going with a splitter tonight (if I have time) and I'll post how things go. It's seeming more and more that this is going to be the issue.

BT

[bjterry62]

Update:

Split the signal to the Saber last night and now I have video on both tuners (PQ was degraded slightly though). BTW, I also noticed the TINY tray icon that is supposed to be used to straighten this issue out. It's just a tiny bar on the far right that I was completely overlooking. I didn't try using the tray app because I'm not planning on using FM. I may try it this weekend just to see if signal quality is any different though.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

BT

[Jackal]

My problems with the card are also within SageTV. I have the card running with MCE using one input for my Comcast TV and the other with a FM radio antenna. It's just fine. But I can't get a single channel in Sage no matter what I do. My HD card won't run in MCE though. It can't seem to see it. So I watch HD in Sage and SD in MCE. Just one having both signals would be nice.

[blade]

Originally Posted by Jackal

My problems with the card are also within SageTV.

The problem bjterry62 had wasn't a problem with Sage, but the fact the card was only getting an rf signal for one tuner. This had nothing to do with Sage.

[Jackal]

Ok, so I know that my card works because I can get video through it with the Vista software and MCE. Any ideas of why I can't get an image through Sage? I still don't have any type of remotes or USB-IRT. I know that it offers to set up on channel 4 but I can't do it without that hardware. I'm currently researching remotes. I need one that will work with both MCE and STV v6.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by Jackal

Ok, so I know that my card works because I can get video through it with the Vista software and MCE. Any ideas of why I can't get an image through Sage? I still don't have any type of remotes or USB-IRT. I know that it offers to set up on channel 4 but I can't do it without that hardware. I'm currently researching remotes. I need one that will work with both MCE and STV v6.

Are you stopping all the MCE services before you try using this with Sage? If you don't you'll never get Sage or any other PVR software to work with the card. The MCE remote will work with both.

Gerry

[Jackal]

Stop the services? I think I read about that before. How is it done? The card works fine in the Vista View software and the VBox HDTV card works fine in Sage right now. But I'll try turn off the services once I find the instructions. Thanks for the tip.