nVidia PureVideo saves the day!

[jbarr]

I downloaded the nVidia PureVideo Decoder 30-day trial, installed it, set SageTV's decoder to "Default", and now the PureVideo decoder very nicely handles SageTV video playback.

I have to say that the results are just short of stunning. Video playback through the S-Video port to my 27" tube TV FINALLY looks good! Colors are more vivid, the image is sharper, and the video seems to have lost the annoying "jerkiness" that it was doing before. I know others have had mixed success with getting PureVideo working, so maybe I just got lucky. But it's working, and seems to work very well.

Anyway, my main "test" video that I use to test video playback is simply any Fox News broadcast (CNN works the same as well.) Specifically, the "news crawl" at the bottom of the screen was always jerky or stuttery. It now flows across the screen very smoothly. And other shows like "Star Trek: TNG" that exhibited lots of jerkiness, now play much smoother.

Now, I just have to decide over the next 30 days if I want to go with the basic "Bronze" version gor $20.00 or be forward-thinking and go with the all out "Platinum" version for $50.00....

[blade]

What took you so long?

You said others have had mixed results, but the majority of people have very good results with the Nvidia decoder. I suspect many of those that don't have other problems.

I don't think the more expensive ones get you anything extra if you're using Sage.

[Lucas]

Nvidia purevideo is a huge improvement over the SageTV internal Decoder. I tried it over a year ago and did not see much improvement over the Sonic or Intervideo WinDVD decoders.

I gave it another try recently and went ahead to make it the standard decoder even if it uses slightly more CPU cycles than others.

Just as blade said, you don't really need the gold or platinum versions. Those are only useful if you are doing the AC3/DTS decoding on the HTPC and outputing discreet analog audio through the sound card.

If you, like most of us, pass the digital stream through SPDIF out to an audio video receiver then bronze is all you need.

[jbarr]

Notably, the "gold" version adds Dolby Digital 5.1, and the Platinum version adds DTS. Obviously, these aren't useful for SD SageTV recordings, but what about DVD playback? That's where I get a bit confused....

I have a fairly simple Sony home theater system with 5.1 surround sound speakkers, and when I play DVDs on it, I get full, excellent surround sound. I would like to be able to play DVDs (either native, or "ripped") through SageTV and also get surround sound playback. Is this possible? My SageTV HTPC motherboard has a digital audio out (coaxial only) and an optional S/PDIF jack that I presume I could connect to the Sony Home Theater box. So when playing a DVD through SageTV, what would I need to get 5.1 surround sound to come out? That's really the last technical point that needs to be resolved.

[jbarr]

Lucas, I think you answered by question--just use SPDIF passthrough, and I should be good to go.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jbarr

Notably, the "gold" version adds Dolby Digital 5.1, and the Platinum version adds DTS. Obviously, these aren't useful for SD SageTV recordings, but what about DVD playback? That's where I get a bit confused....

Just to clarify, even if you get the Silver/Gold versions, decoding is limited to "Dolby Certified" applications, basically that means Windows Media Player or MCE. Decoding won't work in Sage no matter what version you get.

Passthrough works briliantly though

[bcjenkins]

Originally Posted by jbarr

Now, I just have to decide over the next 30 days if I want to go with the basic "Bronze" version gor $20.00 or be forward-thinking and go with the all out "Platinum" version for $50.00....

Save your money, go bronze. The difference is for decoding audio which doesn't work unless you use MCE or WMP

B

(I foolishly paid for plat.)

[jbarr]

So to clarify, I have an HTPC with a SPDIF output that will connect to my Home Theater surround sound receiver.

SageTV recordings recorded off of SD cable will be standard Stereo audio, and will play either on the TV speakers or passed through thr SPDIF to the receiver and come out the receiver as Stereo.

If I play a DVD through SageTV and have a SPDIF cable going from my PC to my home theater receiver, then Dolby Digital/DTS will pass through the SPDIF and be processed by the receiver providing 5.1 surround sound.

Is this correct?

Last two questions:

1. How is standard stereo and SPDIF audio handled? I know SageTV will provide standard stereo to the TV, and I know that you can have passthrough SPDIF, but can you have the two concurrently? Or is it "either/or"? And if you can have them concurrently, are there any "sync" issues?

2. Is SPDIF audio volume controllable from SageTV? Currently, SageTV handles the volume level that is fed to the TV. Is this the same with a SPDIF connection, or does the receiver control the volume level independent of SageTV? I think I know the answer, considering it's called SPDIF "passthrough".

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jbarr

So to clarify, I have an HTPC with a SPDIF output that will connect to my Home Theater surround sound receiver.

SageTV recordings recorded off of SD cable will be standard Stereo audio, and will play either on the TV speakers or passed through thr SPDIF to the receiver and come out the receiver as Stereo.

If I play a DVD through SageTV and have a SPDIF cable going from my PC to my home theater receiver, then Dolby Digital/DTS will pass through the SPDIF and be processed by the receiver providing 5.1 surround sound.

Is this correct?

I believe so.

Last two questions:

1. How is standard stereo and SPDIF audio handled? I know SageTV will provide standard stereo to the TV, and I know that you can have passthrough SPDIF, but can you have the two concurrently? Or is it "either/or"? And if you can have them concurrently, are there any "sync" issues?

That's more a soundcard issue, if it will output S/PDIF and analog at the same time. I think most won't.

2. Is SPDIF audio volume controllable from SageTV? Currently, SageTV handles the volume level that is fed to the TV. Is this the same with a SPDIF connection, or does the receiver control the volume level independent of SageTV? I think I know the answer, considering it's called SPDIF "passthrough".

Not for AC3, it's volume can't be changed without decoding. It might work for PCM, probably depends on the soundcard though.

[IncredibleHat]

Originally Posted by jbarr

So to clarify, I have an HTPC with a SPDIF output that will connect to my Home Theater surround sound receiver.

SageTV recordings recorded off of SD cable will be standard Stereo audio, and will play either on the TV speakers or passed through thr SPDIF to the receiver and come out the receiver as Stereo.

If I play a DVD through SageTV and have a SPDIF cable going from my PC to my home theater receiver, then Dolby Digital/DTS will pass through the SPDIF and be processed by the receiver providing 5.1 surround sound.

Is this correct?

Thats what My setup does.

Sage outputs to the TV via the stereo front ports on the ACL8 port bay, to the TV stereo input next to the DVI input. I also have my spdif port plugged into my 5.1 receiver unit (logitech thing). If I watch DVDs, its passed direct to the receiver, and the TV does not play sound (what I want). When I watch TV from Sage, the TV outputs sound. However, I can ALSO turn on the 5.1 unit and add more 'bass oompfha' if I want, as the sound is also being piped out to the 5.1 system (strangely enough hehe, I havnt figured out why or how, it just does).

I use Bronze v223 of Purevideo.

As for volumes. I use my TV's volume control, and the 5.1 units volume controls. For the HTPC, it just outputs at standard 100%. My remote controls the TV's volume instead of the PC's vontroller (one of the benefits of the MCE remote... it can learn other remote's commands for volume etc).

Then I have my 5.1 unit volume controller. Which has Center, Rear, Sub, and Global independant volume controlling for fine tunning how I want it.

[mike1961]

This is just the oddest thing. For the longest time I have said that I notice no difference between the Sage decoders and the Nvidia decoders. I recently got the MVP and the quality again looked comprable to the decoders. Here's what I have found out:

1. I was able to greatly increase the quality by adjusting the Saturation and brightness almost to the point as if I just plugged the cable box directly into the TV. Why the brightness and saturation keeps reverting, I just don't know.

2. I discovered the Sage Decoders takes 40-60% of computer resources which is outrageous and could explain the "jerkiness" for many if not most. But, since my workstations are not running SageService and also are fairly quick, perhaps they may provide better quality than other users' system in the Sage community. The Nvidia decoders take only around 12% of resources.

The thing I like about Sage Decoders and Cyberlink decoders is that I can change the aspect to fill the screen or go 4x3 or 16x9. You can't do that with NVidia decoders and I don't know if it's a bug or what but Fill wont work. Also, the NVidia decoders are terrible to use with the Nielm's Multi FF/Rew plug in. I'm going to experiment more once he gets the new FF/Rew utility working with v6. I may use Cyberlink if it does not take too much in way of resources and works well with the plugins. But the only advantage I see to the NVidia decoders is they take very little resources so they will work better on a computer that is not strong on memory or may be running other applications.

Mike

[Mahoney]

The Sage Decoders are software decoders, the PureVideo ones use the capabilities of your video card. Hence the large disparity in CPU resources.

If you have an nVidia card you get clear benefits in the quality of video by using PureVideo.

If you set PureVideo to Raw Aspect (I think) then you can control the aspect ratio using Sage.

[mike1961]

Just tried it and it worked. The Anamorphic/Raw does allow for changes to Fill the screen in Sage. What do you find are the best settings to use (either doesn't matter or best:

Display Type
De-Interlace Control
De-interlace Mode
Enhanced nView Support
Color Controls
Color Scheme

Thanks,
Mike

[domc]

PureVideo doesn't work right here. I get skips and lockups in video. Cyberlink is much much better here and works really well.
Sonic drivers make the picture to smooth/blury for me.

I even did a complete windows re-install and still find the purevideo decoder not that great.

[doc]

The purevideo decoders are the only ones that work properly on my system. The quality is as good as watching satelite straight onto the TV, though I do have an NVidia 6600GT card.

If I used the intervideo or cyberlink ones, I get occasional sound and picture stutters. It will work for a few channel changes, and then when you think its been ok for a while, off it goes again.

The purevideo hasn't had any of these problems.

[blade]

De-Interlace Control - Smart, with anything else you won't get proper deinterlacing on your recordings. Using fraps you can easily see the difference. Film will be 24 fps and video 60 fps. If you use Automatic all recorded content will be 60 fps.

De-Interlace Mode - Per Pixel Adaptive is best if your card supports it.

[IncredibleHat]

When I had used "Smart" for the control type, I would get these quick flashes (almost like subliminal messages) during playback, randomly. Selecting Automatic would eliminate those. These flashes only occurred in sage though, not zoomplayer for a DVD.

However, choosing between the two and watching a lot of shows and DVDs, I honestly couldnt see a difference between them, other than the flashes in sage with 'smart' selected. *shrug*

However, this was back when I was using the 'trial' of purevideo, and 8x.xx graphics drivers. I've yet to try it now with the bronze 223 + 9x.xx drivers... that 'flashing' problem may very well have gone away.

When I tried other decoders in Sage, the image quality was horrible compared to purevideo. Really 'boxy' jaggies and edges... nothing was fine or smooth. Heck the SciFi channel logo was disgusting with anything but the purevideo decoders

For nvidia hardware owners, basically nvidia software is the best to go with. For ATI... its whatever your system likes the best, which is different for everyone it seems.

[blade]

Originally Posted by IncredibleHat

When I had used "Smart" for the control type, I would get these quick flashes (almost like subliminal messages) during playback, randomly. Selecting Automatic would eliminate those. These flashes only occurred in sage though, not zoomplayer for a DVD.

It is a known bug with the nvidia decoder and it occurs in other players as well. Problem is no one really knows what causes it because it seems to be very random. There doesn't seem to be any particular combination of software, hardware, or drivers that it does or doesn't affect. Some people never experience the problem while others can't get rid of it.

However, choosing between the two and watching a lot of shows and DVDs, I honestly couldnt see a difference between them, other than the flashes in sage with 'smart' selected. *shrug*

You shouldn't see much difference in dvd assuming it is flagged correctly. Recorded TV is a different matter because it will all be treated as video when in fact a large majority of it should be treated as film. If you use automatic with recorded TV you're not getting proper deinterlacing.

[IncredibleHat]

Originally Posted by blade

You shouldn't see much difference in dvd assuming it is flagged correctly. Recorded TV is a different matter because it will all be treated as video when in fact a large majority of it should be treated as film. If you use automatic with recorded TV you're not getting proper deinterlacing.

Considering my cable is analog, I dont think it makes a diff

Plus, a regular TV with the cable input direct, doesn't determine if something is a film or video when it deinterlaces the signal. Comparing between a regular TV, and the htpc playback, the only thing I really see different, is that the playback on the HTPC is more 'cleaned up'. Its not as grainy, and most of the interference has been removed.

I've been debating on going satellite... but I dread figuring out the evils of setting up the channel changing controlling hack job that one must do to get a 'set top decoder' to change to the right fignewton channel. BUT thats another topic, not to derail this one!!!

Bottom line: purevideo = gooooooood

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by IncredibleHat

Considering my cable is analog, I dont think it makes a diff

It does/can.

Plus, a regular TV with the cable input direct, doesn't determine if something is a film or video when it deinterlaces the signal.

Regular TV doesn't deinterlace at all, it just plops the fields up on the screen as they come.

Most HDTVs just to a dumb bob deinterlacing on SD video. Some of the better ones do a motion-adaptive DI, but few/none do real film detection.