All I want is OTA HDTV and DVR

[StealthTT]

I've done some searching on this forum as well as others and I haven't found the answer to a few of my questions. I get a lot of technical jargon and double speak from the salesmen, so I turn to you guys. From the 40 or so posts I've read while searching for my answers, you guys seem a knowledgeable lot. Thanks in advance for any help you're able to provide.

I do not have the time any more to need cable or satellite, but I do enjoy watching a few primetime shows. I however hate watching over the air (OTA) signals on my 53 inch Panasonic rear projection HDTV. I was told by an aquaintance that SageTV coupled with a video card and HD antenna is probably what I need. He also told me of the DVR functions and I was quite intrigued.

--With these three items would I be able to watch and record HD signals over the air?
--Is my TV compatible?
--Is my computer compatible with the addition of a video card?
--My friend bought the Hauppauge PVR-150 with the SageTV software, but he doesn't have HDTV. Any advice for selecting an HDTV video card?
--What cables would I also need?
--Do I need more RAM? I know it doesn't hurt, but is it a given that I'll need it for HDTV recording?

Here is what I have:

Computer=
2 year old Emachines T3092
AMD Athlon XP 3000+
160Gb harddrive
512mb DDR SDRAM
DVD +/- RW
Nvidia GeForce4 MX Integrated GPU

TV=
Panasonic 53 inch HDTV rear projection
Model number PT-53TW54
HDMI/HDCP Type A input
(2)Component Video Inputs 75 Ohm, Phono Jack Type
S-Video
No built in HD tuner

Antennaweb.org shows *yellow* Small Multidirectional Antenna will work at my specific street address.

Thank you,
Mike.

[GKusnick]

Just to clarify: what you hate about your current setup is that you're watching standard-def (SD) broadcast TV on a big-screen HDTV. Is that right? It's not the programming you hate, or the fact that it's OTA and not cable. It's the fact that SDTV looks like crap on your screen, so you'd rather be watching OTA HDTV. Correct so far?

If so, you have a couple of options. If you don't care about timeshifting or DVR, you could buy a cheap used satellite box off Ebay or something. Many such boxes have OTA HD tuners built in. You don't need a satellite subscription to use that built-in tuner; all you need is an antenna. So that's one way to go.

If you want to go the DVR route, SageTV is a good solution. I'm not familiar with your specific computer model, but it looks like it probably has enough horsepower to do the job with the addition of a good video card. First thing to do then would be to open the case and make sure you have an AGP slot on your motherboard to plug a video card into. You want a card with DVI and/or component video outputs (preferably both). I'd suggest a GeForce 6600GT or better; see this thread for detailed model comparisons.

I'd also suggest doubling your RAM to 1GB. It may not be absolutely necessary but it can't hurt.

If you're going to do a lot of HD recording, you're going to want to add a second hard drive, as big as you can afford. There are some pretty good drives in the 500-750 GB range out now.

There are several good choices for HDTV tuners. I've used both FusionHDTV5 RT Lite PCI cards and Vbox 3560 USB tuners successfully. You may want to get at least two tuners so you can watch/record more than one show at a time.

As far as cables go, you need a coax to connect your antenna to your tuner device(s), and possibly a splitter if you have more than one tuner. USB tuners come with their own cables, but if you get more than one USB tuner you'll need a powered USB hub as well to power them. You'll need a way to get the video signal out of your computer and onto your screen, either a DVI cable (if your TV accepts that) or a set of component video cables. I'm guessing your PC doesn't have a digital audio (SPDIF) output so you'll probably need an audio patch cable to connect your PC's audio out to your TV or stereo or whatever.

[StealthTT]

You're correct, "looks like crap" is an understatement.

I explored your two suggestions. I found a hand-full of hdtv satellite receivers on ebay. One ad for a Sony H200 mentioned that no subscription was necessary for OTA HDTV. Here is the ad:


Two other ads that looked like what I wanted were for Dish Network 811 HD receivers:
http://cgi.ebay.com/DISH-NETWORK-811...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dish-Network-811...QQcmdZViewItem

Are there any satellite receivers that won't work? I was told by a DirecTV salesman that no satellite receiver's OTA would work without a subscription. He said the only ones that did were hacked and they are illegal. I take it he's wrong? Only newer ones? Certain brands? What should I look for?

Even though it looks like a used satellite receiver is much cheaper, the second option of using my pc still holds quite an allure because of the Time-shifting and DVR aspects.

I popped my computer case open and I see I have one AGP slot. The video card I have is soldered to the board. I understand the term Integrated now. Can I still change to a new video card?

I found there is room for another stick of 512 SDRAM bringing me up to 1024.

I read the thread about graphics cards, but 90% of it was over my head. I'll have to do more research on the matter or take someone else's educated opinon such as yours.

Is a separate TV tuner card (FusionHDTV5 or VBOX) needed as well as the graphics card?
Then 2 if I want to watch one thing and record another?

I'm sorry to ask to be spoon-fed but so much of this is over my head. I keep finding technical jargon or information that conflicts with the salesmen or product websites.

Thanks for your time,
Mike.

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by StealthTT

I popped my computer case open and I see I have one AGP slot. The video card I have is soldered to the board. I understand the term Integrated now. Can I still change to a new video card?

You should be able to. That is why they included an empty AGP slot. In your BIOS settings, there should be a setting to disable the on-board video, and to only use the new video card.

I read the thread about graphics cards, but 90% of it was over my head. I'll have to do more research on the matter or take someone else's educated opinon such as yours.

Basically, the better the video card, the better the quality of the video onto your TV. If you get a video card that is too slow and underpowered, then you may have choppyness in watching HD programming.

Is a separate TV tuner card (FusionHDTV5 or VBOX) needed as well as the graphics card?

Yes, you need both a tuner card, and a graphics card. The tuner card brings the signal into the computer to be recorded, and the graphics card lets you output the recorded signal onto a TV.

Then 2 if I want to watch one thing and record another?

You will neeed 1 tuner card for each program that you want to record at the same time. Watching "Live TV" is a active recording, so you will need 1 tuner for that purpose. Watching previously recorded program does not require a tuner.

So, if you had 2 tuners, you could record 2 shows and watch a previous recorded show, or you could watch 1 show "live" and record a second show for later viewing.

[lobosrul]

I hope I dont get in trouble for saying this... but if all you really want is to time-shift, and skip the commercials, then I'd think your better of with a DVR box. Im sure there are some OTA DVR boxes out there.

If your interested in doing things like permanent recordings (after encoding to something), and DVD storage on your hdd, then a SageTV setup would make more sense.

You will definanly need a new Vid card (7600GT ive heard is the best out there for HD). You will also probably need Nvidia Purevideo decoder software.

As far as the card itself I have an ATI HDTV Wonder that works great for digital TV (analog is crap though). Ive seen it for around $50 on ebay.

Your CPU is powerful enough, especualy if you use Nvidia's purevideo decoder.

You will almost certainly want a 2nd HDD dedicated to sage. Probably atleast 250GB. HD recording can be up to 8GB an hour. A couple of football games and there goes 50GB.

But, definantly get hooked up for HD somehow. You spent thousands for that TV im sure, and your not getting your moneys worth watching standard def TV!

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by lobosrul

I hope I dont get in trouble for saying this... but if all you really want is to time-shift, and skip the commercials, then I'd think your better of with a DVR box. Im sure there are some OTA DVR boxes out there.

If your interested in doing things like permanent recordings (after encoding to something), and DVD storage on your hdd, then a SageTV setup would make more sense.

I don't think you'll get in trouble for saying that, but I'm going to disagree with it. For me, what makes SageTV better than an off-the-shelf Tivo box is not the fact that I can archive TV shows or rip DVDs. It's the fact that Sage is so much more flexible and expandable. Need more disk space? Throw in another drive. Too many recording conflicts? Add another tuner. Want to watch a recorded show on the SDTV in your bedroom? Hook up an MVP to your LAN. You can't do any of that with a Tivo, and it doesn't take long (in my experience) to get to the point of wanting to do those kinds of things.

[lobosrul]

I should've added the server/client architecture of SageTV is pretty neat. Not something I've done, but probably will one day.

I still think if all you want is OTA time shifting, a dual tuner DVR is probably enough. Very, very rarely have there been more than 2 OTA shows on at the same time that I wanted to watch.

Edit: the placeshifter is also pretty cool, that I have used. Watching world cup games at work was awesome

[StealthTT]

Thanks for all the help so far guys. I've learned a lot.

I've read some more today and found the info on CableCard. So now I'm on the fence with how to spend my money. My first love is car racing. I have a Dodge Stealth Twin Turbo, hence the username. I enjoy road course racing or open lapping as others call it. So my pool of extra money usually goes there. But since I won't be paying a cable or satellite bill I might as well spend that money on fully utilyzing my hdtv. So I'm left with a decision-
1. Wait for cable card. If it'll be all it's cracked up to be.
2. Spend a little money and buy a hd receiver. Provided I find one that works.
3. Get the SageTV, video card, tuner card setup. Most money, but adds lots of addons.

Hmmm.....is the cable card going to be as good as they say it will?

Are those HD receivers what I need? Or do they need "hacked" or modified?

Any certain models or brands work better or worse for this application?

Thanks guys. I appreciate it!!

[lobosrul]

Cablecard:

Cablecards are already availabe... just not for use on a computer. You can ask your cable company for one, and if your TV has a cablecard slot it will work. The downside to them is, the cable company still charges you about the same for them as a box, and you usualy cant get pay per view/on demand.

If you mean for a computer system, ATI's Ocur card, which has been delayed, supports cable card. The reason its been delayed is for DRM systems to catch up. This means a closed system that will not allow you to do what you want with captured files. It will mean upgrading to windows Vista, and probably wont work with SageTV .

Of course it might be cracked...

[StealthTT]

Thanks for the help everyone. I bought a used dsl hd tuner off of ebay. It's a Hughes HD-HTL and it works great. I still haven't bought a recorder as I still plan to go with the SAGE setup rather than a self contained DVR (i.e. TIVO).

Thanks again to those that replied.