Novelty of Recording TV is Long Gone...Now Fix It

[Major_A]

I bought this product over a year ago and have had varying problems. I am now tired of dealing with them and want the software to work as intended. The crashing needs to be fixed ASAP. I am restarting my HTPC or SageTV two to three times a day. Sometimes the program crashes to the desktop other times it just freezes. I have tried various versions of JAVA with no results better than the previous. I can run two instances of SP2004 (one CPU and one RAM), Prime95, and 3DMark06 for 24+ hours without one error. I start up SageTV and within a few hours I'm walking over to the computer to restart the thing.

On top of this SageTV decides to periodically change my system clock for no apparent reason. I can be watching a show and next thing I know it’s somehow decided to jump a few hours forward. This requires minimizing SageTV so I can adjust my clock. This happens a few times a week.

Other times I find myself having to remove a channel from my lineup and re-add it so the TV listings will update itself. These things are more than annoyances they are making me reconsider this “coolness” factor for a functional DVR that will record the right show every time, and stay connected. I find myself while away from home trying to watch the shows I plan on recording because in all honesty I have no idea when I get back if it’s going to be there. While SageTV gets most of the blame I can’t exclude my Hauppauge IR.

Most people including guests and girlfriends have no clue how to fix these issues. While I can fix these issues without a problem most people wouldn’t know how to resolve them or possibly fix them (ala the time issue).

Moving on, here are a few suggestions I would like to see made/adjusted in SageTV.
Suggestions:
1. Add better visualizations for the music player
2. Have an option in the music player to always display the song information
3. Add a reminder option, I don’t need to record everything, sometimes I just need to be reminded to switch the channel
4. Add an option to restart SageTV at a predetermined time
5. Add an option to clear the JAVA cache through SageTV
6. Don’t make it tune the channel every time something “new” starts. I already have that turned off but the seamless viewing experience is lost anyway.

[AngelofDeth]

6. Don’t make it tune the channel every time something “new” starts. I already have that turned off but the seamless viewing experience is lost anyway.

Since SageTV records every show into a separate file, I don't believe this is possible. Switching files will always result in a non-smooth transition when a new show starts even on the same channel.

[bcjenkins]

Major A,

A few questions for you:

1. Would you please share your system configuration? Include as much detail as possible.
2. Have you contacted Sage support?
3. Do you use your machine for anything else?

B

[blade]

I don't think there is anything in particular to fix. Many people are running Sage without issue. Others have problems, but with computers that is always the case. If you can run Prime95 and other stress tests, but can't run Sage then you have a problem somewhere. PVR stresses your hardware in ways other programs don't because the hardware is being used in different ways. So it's possible some of your hardware just can't handle it or you have some software conflicts.

My Sage server has never crashed in almost 2 years and the client only has to be rebooted once every few months. So it's very possible to have a solid running Sage setup.

If you list your hardware and software I'm sure someone can offer some advice.

[Major_A]

Quick summary:
Sempron 2800+ O/C'ed from 1.6Ghz to 2.0Ghz stock voltage
512MB Value RAM - Corsair, Patriot
ECS nForce 250 - original BIOS (isn't a newer one)
6800nu stock
Hauppauge PVR 150 - latest drivers
Chaintech AV710 soundcard
Maxtor ATA133 60GB OS/SageTV drive
Western Digital SATA II 250GB storage drive
Lite-On DVD Burner - latest firmware
Rosewill Value 450W PSU
3X Zalman low speed fans
Zalman 7000 AlCu on CPU
Zalman V700 Cu on GPU
Windows XP Professional 32bit
DirectX 9.0C updated last week
OS all up to date

If you want more detailed information I ran the hardware summary in Everest, it's the .pdf file.

The only time I have problems with the software is when I am watching TV. If it let it sleep and let it run I rarely have a problem.

[hemicuda]

Are you sure President Scroob (Salute!) didn't have a hand in managing that setup?

Sorry, couldn't resist the reference.
I *will* resist the urge to quote that scene. I'm sure the board will be happy of that.

I sincerely hope you get your problems with STV resolved.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by Major_A

Quick summary:
Sempron 2800+ O/C'ed from 1.6Ghz to 2.0Ghz stock voltage
512MB Value RAM - Corsair, Patriot
ECS nForce 250 - original BIOS (isn't a newer one)
6800nu stock
Hauppauge PVR 150 - latest drivers
Chaintech AV710 soundcard
Maxtor ATA133 60GB OS/SageTV drive
Western Digital SATA II 250GB storage drive
Lite-On DVD Burner - latest firmware
Rosewill Value 450W PSU
3X Zalman low speed fans
Zalman 7000 AlCu on CPU
Zalman V700 Cu on GPU
Windows XP Professional 32bit
DirectX 9.0C updated last week
OS all up to date

If you want more detailed information I ran the hardware summary in Everest, it's the .pdf file.

The only time I have problems with the software is when I am watching TV. If it let it sleep and let it run I rarely have a problem.

Having tried to run Sage on an ECS motherboard with an AMD 64 CPU, I can advise you to not do so. IMO, most ECS are just too poorly designed.

I must also comment that to make matters worse, you say you are seriously overclocking the system.

I'd get rid of ECS and not overclock as you say you are doing - common sense. Get to stability then tweak.

Even so, my ECS based Sage System (sole purpose) was stable for quite a few months. Then it went to heck and I no longer use it. Itr would lock up hard with frozen video - no response to anything other than hard reboot. Wouldn't even ping.

[GKusnick]

You haven't said what version of SageTV you're running. There have been a lot of bugs fixes in the past year so if you're not on the latest version (5.0.4) you might want to give it a try.

Also be aware that this is a user-to-user forum. Vent all you want, but if you're looking for an official response, you should submit a support request.

On top of this SageTV decides to periodically change my system clock for no apparent reason. I can be watching a show and next thing I know it’s somehow decided to jump a few hours forward. This requires minimizing SageTV so I can adjust my clock. This happens a few times a week.

There's an option under Detailed Setup > General for synching the clock with the server. Have you tried turning that off? Also, have you checked your Windows time zone setting to make it's correct? It's possible that whoever is adjusting your clock (whether it's Windows or SageTV) is confused about what time zone you're in.

[Major_A]

Yes I built my HTPC, along with countless other computers. I would venture to say that setting up a HTPC or SageTV is not for a novice user.

Originally Posted by stevech

Having tried to run Sage on an ECS motherboard with an AMD 64 CPU, I can advise you to not do so. IMO, most ECS are just too poorly designed.

I must also comment that to make matters worse, you say you are seriously overclocking the system.

I'd get rid of ECS and not overclock as you say you are doing - common sense. Get to stability then tweak.

Even so, my ECS based Sage System (sole purpose) was stable for quite a few months. Then it went to heck and I no longer use it. Itr would lock up hard with frozen video - no response to anything other than hard reboot. Wouldn't even ping.

ECS isn't be best no doubt, but I have run into the crashing with no O/C and the O/C it has. This isn't a hardcore O/C, I've had the chip up to 315Mhz before, so 250 is a walk in the park. I am about to slap my old Abit AV8 and current A64 3500+ in my HTPC once I pick up a A64 X2 3800+. I bought the ECS and Sempron from Fry's for $70, so I figure why dump more money into it when I set out to get a cheap upgrade at the time.

Originally Posted by GKusnick

You haven't said what version of SageTV you're running. There have been a lot of bugs fixes in the past year so if you're not on the latest version (5.0.4) you might want to give it a try.

Also be aware that this is a user-to-user forum. Vent all you want, but if you're looking for an official response, you should submit a support request.


There's an option under Detailed Setup > General for synching the clock with the server. Have you tried turning that off? Also, have you checked your Windows time zone setting to make it's correct? It's possible that whoever is adjusting your clock (whether it's Windows or SageTV) is confused about what time zone you're in.

Sorry about that, yeah I'm running 5.0.4 with the JRE 1.6 beta. So far the beta JRE is the most stable. Thanks for the tip about the sync with system clock, I'll change it and see what happens. I figured this was a u2u forum but I had to vent after I hard locked earlier when I went to play a recorded movie. Hence, why I registered in January but have kept my mouth shut until now.

[AngelofDeth]

If you are only worried about recorded(and live) SDTV content, you might want to look into a MediaMVP. You probably already know about it, just thought I would mention it. Also, the recommended Java version (as far as I know) is the one that ships with SageTV, which is 1.4.something...

[Lucas]

Overclocking, no matter how little could cause problems.

I briefly run my 2.8P4 at 3.06 and had SageTV crashes within the hour so I corrected my ways.....

Also, as discussed in other threads JRE 1.5 and 1.6 have problems casuing crashes etc so the recommended version is 1.4.2.11.

[Major_A]

JRE 1.4.2.11 crashes too. That was what I ran for a while after reading around on the crashing issue here on the forums. Like I said my computer is completely stable when torture testing, something a lot more stressful than SageTV running by itself.

Before today I was running my computer back at it's stock speed for a month and still had crashes. I like the added Mhz because I am then able to run FFDShow and resize the image. If I do this at stock speed it is unwatchable.

I'm not trying to dispel your comments but there is a method to my madness.

[GKusnick]

Another thing you might try (if you haven't already) is switching the PVR card to a different PCI slot. Try to get it an IRQ all its own if you can. Some motherboards don't handle IRQ sharing all that well, which can cause lockups during recording -- something your benchmarks will never stress.

Similarly, it's conceivable that MPEG2 decoding puts demands on your video card that the benchmarks don't simulate very well. The card itself may be OK, but if it's not getting enough power that could be an issue. I personally would tend to be skeptical of any PSU that has the word "Value" in its name. If you happen to have a spare PSU lying around (preferably a high-wattage name-brand unit), you might try swapping them to see if that helps.

I'm not trying to shift the blame, but hard lockups that require a reboot sound like a hardware or device driver issue to me. So that's the kind of troubleshooting I'd be doing in your shoes.

[AngelofDeth]

Hard lockups due to software is something i've rarely (if ever) seen in Windows XP...Its always been a hardware issue. Memory seems to be the most likely thing to fail after the HD in my experience... A bad, or underpowered power supply will also cause your computer to act like it has gremlins...

[waltraud]

Originally Posted by Major_A

4. Add an option to restart SageTV at a predetermined time

If you are running SageTV as a Windows service you could create a batch file containing

net stop sagetv
net start sagetv

And add a scheduled task to run it at a specific time

[Major_A]

Hardlocks was a bad choice of words. I have never had a hardlock of Windows, not my HTPC. Basically I will select a video to view and SageTV will lock up. From there I either need to reboot the computer or open up the Task Manager and close SageTV and reopen it. While I agree the PSU is questionable it has so far been rock solid. I have let Everest run in the background for days at a time to monitor temperatures and voltages. Everything was well within specs and I have not noticed a problem, yet.

As far as loading my card differently than a benchmark I can agree again. But the thing is I am just decoding SDTV through a satellite dish, not HDTV. According to PureVideo it is regularly 3Mbps. The card is good, the only reason it made into my HTPC is because I updated to a PCIe board in my main rig and couldn't use the card. I had similar crashes and SageTV lockups when I was using a Geforce FX 5600 before the 6800nu.

I have run my RAM through 24+ hour memtest86 runs to make sure it was not the culprit in the first place. I have had bad RAM issues in the past and I generally know what to look for and rectify them ASAP. I have had bad RAM that will play nice with everything except surfing the Internet, that was a pain in the butt to find the problem.

[Major_A]

Originally Posted by waltraud

If you are running SageTV as a Windows service you could create a batch file containing

net stop sagetv
net start sagetv

And add a scheduled task to run it at a specific time

I am no good at the software level of anything (dropped my JAVA C++ course in college after a week), can you post an example?

[waltraud]

Originally Posted by Major_A

I am no good at the software level of anything (dropped my JAVA C++ course in college after a week), can you post an example?

Just create a text file containing

net stop sagetv
net start sagetv

Save it and change the file extention to .bat

Then create a scheduled task to run the batch file. (Start - Program Files - Accessories - System Tools)

That's it.

BTW I am not at home at the moment so I can't check if the service is called sagetv. I am pretty sure though ;-)

You can double check the name under Services in Windows Computer Management or with 'net start' at the command line. This will list all the running services.

PS: You can check if the batch file works by just running it from the command line. I wouldn't run it by double clicking it because the window will close no matter if it was run successfully or not and you won't be able to check for error messages.

[bcjenkins]

pls post full output of java -version

[samgreco]

I would lay my money on the motherboard.

I had a Soyo Dragon in my Sage server and I would get random file corruption, only in Sage. Whenever I had to reboot, Sage would forget that it had a second PVR250. And I could never run another app like XLobby or other frontend without problems,

I switched to an Asus board and haven't had a SINGLE issue since. I haven't needed even a reboot in months.

And remember that the original Soyo tested perfectly. It still works, just not with PVR250s. I did try it later with other PVR software and had similar issues, so it wasn't Sage, but the combination of hardware.