Front end feature comparison chart

[hobbes487]

Hi all!

I am working on a feature comparison chart for a large list of front ends. I have not used Sage TV myself so I am looking for someone who is a SageTV expert who would be willing to contribute to the project. If anyone is interested in contributing to the project contact me at htpcsw@gmail.com

When the chart is complete it will be posted at www.htpcsw.com

If you havn't already you should come check the site out. It is focused on htpc software. We are a fairly new site and looking for members. The site has news, a version tracker for htpc software, guides, a forum and soon to have some reviews.

[edgley]

You should check out the CQC software over at http://www.charmedquark.com

[salsbst]

Preface... this is just IMHO...

Does anyone else here take issue with the term "front end"? Personally, I think it distorts what is provided by many HTPC apps including SageTV.

Nothing personal, hobbes487!

I've just seen that term used over and over again, mostly on AVS forum, and have finally reached the point where I feel I must comment.

I would think that an application that does nothing but present a GUI over existing features from other applications could safely be called a front end. An example would be the original version of MyHTPC (which grew into Meedio), or one of those Windows Shell replacement programs.

But to call something like SageTV a front end severly under-represents what SageTV is.

[salsbst]

Oh, and btw, if you feel like listing the features that you're evaluating in your comparison, I'm sure you'll get good feedback here on the forum.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by salsbst

Does anyone else here take issue with the term "front end"? Personally, I think it distorts what is provided by many HTPC apps including SageTV.

The term "Front End" seems to have been coined for apps like myHTPC, XLobby, MainLobby, etc which would provide a unfied "front end" to many other apps/functions. Then rightly or wrongly (I probably agree with you), it seems to be being applied to about any HTPC related software.

But to call something like SageTV a front end severly under-represents what SageTV is.

That and SageTV isn't a very good one , in that it doesn't inteface easilly (wasn't designed to) other apps. SageTV is however an excellent PVR and a moderately good Media Center app.

[hobbes487]

Originally Posted by salsbst

Oh, and btw, if you feel like listing the features that you're evaluating in your comparison, I'm sure you'll get good feedback here on the forum.

Ok, here is the list of features that I am using for the comparison. Feel free to suggest any others that you feel may be missing.

TV
TV Setup wizard
Live TV
External TV Tuners
Recording Scheduler

Record Once
Record Now
Daily
Weekly
Weekdays
Season Ticket

Program Guide
Color Coded Genres
Timeshifting
Analog Support
DVB support
HDTV Support
Multiple Tuners
VMR9 Rendering
Overlay Rendering
Picture-in-Picture
AC3 Support
Transcode Recordings

WMD
Xvid
Dvix
MPG

Map channels to specific capture card
Zooming
Standby/Wake on record time
Web Scheduling
Closed Captions
ffdshow for TV
Automatic Comercial Detection/Skipping

Music
Multizone Audio
CD Player
CD Autoplay
Music Jukebox
Downloads Album Cover Art & Info
Downloads Artist Art & Info
3rd Party Audio Player Support
Load, Create & Save Playlists
Display Now Playing Info on every screen
Search
Rip CDs

Video
On Screen Display
DVD Player
Media File Browser
Downloads Movie Cover Art
Built in Video Player
3rd Party Video Player Support
VMR9 Renderless Playback
Zoom
ffdshow support
DVD Profiler Info Support
Rip DVDs


Radio
FM Support
AM Support
Station logos
Timeshifting
Recording scheduler
Internet Radio Streaming
3rd Part Radio Tuner Support

Pictures
Slideshows
Zoom
Rotate
Thumbnail Generation
Delete
Background Music

Other
Skinnable
Plugin Support
Import Scheduler
PIN Security
Remote Control Support
On Screen Configuration
Weather Module
Supports Live images from web
File Browser
Internet Browser
Recipe Module
RSS Feed Module
On Screen Keyboard
Client/Server Setup
Date/Time Display
Dynamic Key Mapping
Live TV as Background in Menus
Window & Fullscreen Support
PPC/PDA Control
Launch External Programs
Burn CD/DVDs
MSN Chat
YAC Support
LCD/VFD Support
Offline media support
X10 Support
Emulator Front End

Plugins/Add-ons available

Operating System

Ease of Setup 1-5

Cost

[SHS]

SageTV is more long the line of Multi-Media Center as stanger89 said and term "Front End" applys to other apps that are not turely integration in to one application which there for control by main UI to run other application base on external command lines but dose not have fully control over that application like a direct plug-in.
But in some case depend on the Plug-in style in a way SageTV could be called a Front End becuases it runing external tool like Kjake's DVD Burning, Comskip.

[Crashless]

I agree with salsbst, I think the term 'front end' in regards to SageTV applies more effectively towards the STV packages, where the SageTV core is the 'back end'.

The term 'front end' has become used far to widely than I think it's original definition implies. Especially at AVS, I think due to the fact there are many users uninitiated to the nuances that are HTPCs.

[mayamaniac]

Agree, SageTV is not a front end. Meedio Essential and XLobby are front ends. Front ends are interfaces that can be configured to launch and control other apps, such as SageTV. If you are to include SageTV in the comparision, use the term that has been used more often now which more accurately describes what SageTV, MCE, Meedio suite, BeyondTV, etc, are about, and that term is "Media Center".

[Blue]

I think it is a matter of semantics (I almost typed symantec). If the definition of a front end includes the ability to launch other applications, then SageTV is a front end.

Meedio Essentials is also a front end, in that it can launch other applications, but it also includes an audio player, a video player, weather, and an optional TV component (Meedio TV), to name a few. Very similar to SageTV in that regard. However SageTV excels at the TV component, whereas Meedio Essentials excels as a front end.

Beyond TV, on the other hand, is a PVR only.

IMHO, a Media Center implies both software and hardware.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Blue

I think it is a matter of semantics (I almost typed symantec).

Yeah, it is semantics, but it's something we need to be careful with. I've been doing this (HTPC/Media PC) thing for a while so I guess that kind of affects my perceptions a bit.

If the definition of a front end includes the ability to launch other applications, then SageTV is a front end.

I'm from before, MCE, before SageTV 2, before Xlobby, (man I'm talking like I'm a geezer ). When somebody says frontend a couple things come to mind:
*Menu interface
*Ability to customize the interface and lauch other apps.

Specifically, myHTPC, Xlobby, and Mainlobby come to mind. They are simply interfaces for uniting different specialized apps. They are user-configurable, easilly through either wizards, config files, or configuration dialogs.

Now, we've seen the advent of the "media center" app. This brings a few different things to mind:
*Management of many forms of media
*Playback of many forms of media

SageTV, and MCE are prime examples of these, they provide some things associated with a frontend, like the nice menu system integrating features, but they are fundamentally different at the same time, in that they don't offer easy customization of layout/look/feel, or easy launching of other apps. Properly executed a media center app is definitely capable of rendering a frontend unneeded, but they don't replace them

SageTV and MCE kind of run the the line of branching into the frontend category, in that it is possible for them to do frontend things. However the fact that you need an SDK/programming/etc to do it, renders them not frontends IMO. Now the various STVs/imports that give menu customization functionality and external program launching functionality definitely move Sage closer.

Meedio Essentials is also a front end, in that it can launch other applications, but it also includes an audio player, a video player, weather, and an optional TV component (Meedio TV), to name a few. Very similar to SageTV in that regard. However SageTV excels at the TV component, whereas Meedio Essentials excels as a front end.

Meedio is a prime example of the reverse, it is/was a frontend, but is starting to bundle stuff with it to make it more of a media center. However Meedio is a frontend in the prime sense of the word, its basically a menu system for driving other apps. Of course it's nice SDK makes it possible for others to integrate their apps in closely with the frontend.

Beyond TV, on the other hand, is a PVR only.

And Beyond Media is a frontend, probably, although I'm not entirely sure how it integrates with other apps.

IMHO, a Media Center implies both software and hardware.

Well there's the Media Center machine/system which implies hardware softare, but there's also the media center app or frontend/apps that run on top of it.

To the OP, I don't really know what you should call it. I'd probably lean toward making it a media center shootout, because based on your criteria, you're basically looking to compare, entire media management/playback solutions.

[hobbes487]

Wow. I seem to have caused quite a stir about the definition of a front end. I suppose it may be a little more apropriate to call my chart a Media Center/Front End/PVR feature comparison.

I just want to create a chart for people who are trying to decide on what Media Center/Front End/PVR to use. It would be awsome if you guys could take a look at the features I have posted and point out the features sagetv includes

Oh, since i have your attentions, have any of you checked out the site at all? Do you think is a worthwhile visit? And what do you guys think about the chart? Is it a good idea?

[Blue]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Meedio is a prime example of the reverse, it is/was a frontend, but is starting to bundle stuff with it to make it more of a media center. However Meedio is a frontend in the prime sense of the word, its basically a menu system for driving other apps. Of course it's nice SDK makes it possible for others to integrate their apps in closely with the frontend.

Actually, Meedio has always been a media center. Since day one of its release it has had a built-in video player, music player, weather module, picture viewer, etc. It also has a couple hundred plug-ins that run within Meedio itself, without the need for external apps.

Hobbes - is this list limited to out-of-the-box functionality? With SageTV (as well as other applications), third-party developments will be a significant factor. And I suspect that functionality will change frequently as new developments are released.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by hobbes487

I just want to create a chart for people who are trying to decide on what Media Center/Front End/PVR to use. It would be awsome if you guys could take a look at the features I have posted and point out the features sagetv includes

Maybe I missed it, but you don't seem to include "Runs as a Service." This, IMHO, is the greatest feature of SageTV. It loads as a Windows service (at your option, of course) when Windows starts, and being loaded allows it to record programming. Actually starting a recording seems to take little or no computer resources. If it crashes, Windows notices and can restart it.

One of the other programs I've used has been Fusion's software, for their HD cards, and just the loading of that program for a scheduled recordingoften crashes the computer. This is especially true if you have another program running using overlay, because when Fusion loads it wants to display a splashscreen (not at your option, of course).

Anyway, service mode seems much more advanced than starting a program to record something, or having a program always running in the system tray.

[steingra]

Originally Posted by hobbes487

Wow. I seem to have caused quite a stir about the definition of a front end. I suppose it may be a little more apropriate to call my chart a Media Center/Front End/PVR feature comparison.

I just want to create a chart for people who are trying to decide on what Media Center/Front End/PVR to use. It would be awsome if you guys could take a look at the features I have posted and point out the features sagetv includes

Oh, since i have your attentions, have any of you checked out the site at all? Do you think is a worthwhile visit? And what do you guys think about the chart? Is it a good idea?

I looked at the site, I think its a nice web site. I like all the links to all the programs...if I had found your site first, it would have given me the launch points to all (well most) of the online sites I ended up visiting, after reading like a million forums messages.

I can see you can add lots more content, reviews, links, etc

Heck I have collected so many links and written down some of my own information, I can probably send it to you, assuming you dont already have it


Looks good to me

[steingra]

Originally Posted by hobbes487

Wow. I seem to have caused quite a stir about the definition of a front end. I suppose it may be a little more apropriate to call my chart a Media Center/Front End/PVR feature comparison.

I think that makes sense to give it a more broad name. Because "Front end" pegs it down to something more specific than SageTV really is
(because sagetv is soooooo much more than just a front end)

[mightyt]

Originally Posted by hobbes487

Wow. I seem to have caused quite a stir about the definition of a front end. I suppose it may be a little more appropriate to call my chart a Media Center/Front End/PVR feature comparison.

Welcome to the Sage Forum! Yes ... folks here are very sensitive about front end and UI being confused with feature and functions ...

Getting past all that word stuff, I like what you are doing ... Personally I would love to see an unbiased matrix comparison of features and functions between HTPC applications. At the minimum it gives a good high level picture of what the strengths and weaknesses each have.

The only thing a checklist doesn’t provide is how well each product does in each area when compared to the others ...

But, still a good idea to me ... T.

[hobbes487]

Originally Posted by Blue

Hobbes - is this list limited to out-of-the-box functionality? With SageTV (as well as other applications), third-party developments will be a significant factor. And I suspect that functionality will change frequently as new developments are released.

I realize that with most front ends/Media Centers there is a tremendous amount of functionality added from 3rd party add-ons and plugins. In order to incorporate this into the chart I will make a note that the feature is avaible with a plugin, rather than just yes/no.

[hobbes487]

I hear crickets..... Nobody interested in filling out the chart i posted?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by hobbes487

Ok, here is the list of features that I am using for the comparison. Feel free to suggest any others that you feel may be missing.

TV
TV Setup wizard - Yes
Live TV - Yes
External TV Tuners - Yes
Recording Scheduler

Record Once - Yes
Record Now - Yes (sort of, it's actually kind of record once)
Daily - Yes - via timed recording
Weekly - Yes - via timed recording
Weekdays - Yes - via timed recording
Season Ticket - Yes

Program Guide - Yes
Color Coded Genres - Yesk - Customizeable with Studio
Timeshifting - Yes
Analog Support - Yes
DVB support - Not directly
HDTV Support - Yes
Multiple Tuners - Yes
VMR9 Rendering - Yes - including Fullscreen Exclusive
Overlay Rendering - Yes
Picture-in-Picture - No
AC3 Support - Yes
Transcode Recordings - No (but can deal with externally transcoded recordings)

WMD - Yes (I assume you mean WMV, and Sage supports WMV-HD)
Xvid - Yes
Dvix - Yes
MPG - Yes

Map channels to specific capture card - Yes
Zooming - Yes
Standby/Wake on record time - Yes
Web Scheduling - Via Neilm's plugin
Closed Captions - Yes (with 250/350)
ffdshow for TV - Yes
Automatic Comercial Detection/Skipping - Via user created addons

Music
Multizone Audio - No
CD Player - I don't think so (actually Yes on Linux version/MediaReady)
CD Autoplay - Dito
Music Jukebox - Yes
Downloads Album Cover Art & Info - No
Downloads Artist Art & Info - No
3rd Party Audio Player Support - Possible with MediaPlayer API
Load, Create & Save Playlists - Yes
Display Now Playing Info on every screen - ??? I think so
Search - Yes
Rip CDs - No (Yes on MediaReady)

Video
On Screen Display - Yes
DVD Player - Yes
Media File Browser - Yes
Downloads Movie Cover Art - No (but supports DVD Profiler/IMDB via user addons)
Built in Video Player - Yes
3rd Party Video Player Support - Yes (via MediaPlayer API or user addons)
VMR9 Renderless Playback - Yes
Zoom - Yes
ffdshow support - Yes
DVD Profiler Info Support - Yes (Via user addons)
Rip DVDs - No


Radio
FM Support - I think so
AM Support - No idea :0
Station logos
Timeshifting
Recording scheduler
Internet Radio Streaming
3rd Part Radio Tuner Support

Pictures
Slideshows - Yes
Zoom - Not integrated
Rotate - Not integrated
Thumbnail Generation - I think so
Delete - Yes
Background Music - Not integrated

Other
Skinnable - Studio
Plugin Support - Studio
Import Scheduler - ??? What's this?
PIN Security - No (I think there's a user addon though maybe) Oh and there are parental controls
Remote Control Support - Yes - Native USB-UIRT
On Screen Configuration - Yes
Weather Module - Yes
Supports Live images from web - Possible not integrated
File Browser - Not with default STV
Internet Browser - Not with default STV
Recipe Module - No
RSS Feed Module - User addon
On Screen Keyboard - Yes (some screens)
Client/Server Setup - Yes
Date/Time Display - Yes
Dynamic Key Mapping - Yes
Live TV as Background in Menus - Yes
Window & Fullscreen Support - Yes
PPC/PDA Control - Not yet
Launch External Programs - User addon
Burn CD/DVDs - No (Yes on MediaReady, or User addon)
MSN Chat - No
YAC Support - Maybe via user addon, can't remember
LCD/VFD Support - User addon
Offline media support - User addon (DVD Profiler data)
X10 Support - No
Emulator Front End - Yes (hidden)

Plugins/Add-ons available
http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=7953

Operating System
Windows ( or linux via MediaReady)

Ease of Setup 1-5
This one's asking for trouble I'd say 1 being easy, but many have trouble for some reason or another.

Cost - No charge per tuner, no charge for "Media Center" functionality, Studio is included, must pay for extra client licenses.