Is It Worth It??

[mlbdude]

An all in one solution sounds like a good idea for you. MCE has the same hardware requirments as SageTV (a little stricter even) so anything you get for MCE will work with SageTV. I don't think you can get an MCE system without a hardware encoder - though it may not be as good as the Hauppauge 150.

The quality will be identical between SageTV and MCE but neither will be as good as a dedicated set top box unless you use a hardware decoder (only partially supported in Sage and not at all in MCE) or output with something better than SVideo. You will have to weigh the quality loss with the bunch of extra functionality you get.

Good luck!

[Mahoney]

The quality will be identical between SageTV and MCE but neither will be as good as a dedicated set top box unless you use a hardware decoder (only partially supported in Sage)

Sorry to be a pain, but could you expand a bit on this? I have a Radeon 9250 - I was under the impression that it had hardware MPEG decoding and that Sage used this via Direct Draw. Is that right? Or are you talking about some other item of hardware that would improve things for me?

[mlbdude]

I mean a full hardware decoder that has the hardware to output video - not a PC's desktop. Video cards just have hardware assist decoding which helps the CPU but does nothing for output. Hardware decoders include something like the 350 or XCard. Similar hardware is used on your cable box and or a Tivo.

Your video card basically takes snapshots of your desktop then scales and formats it to output to a TV. Doing so decreases video quality and also forces you to deinterlace your video.

[Mahoney]

OK, thanks. I just went and had a look at the XCard info; the way with putting it through a pass through to a video card in order to get the best of both worlds sounds interesting, though obviously rather hard work as you can't get cards with the relevant ports anymore.

Does no-one produce a genuinne all in one that does hardware decoding and desktop rendering?

[mlbdude]

Not that I know of. They also add limitations to DVD and music playback too. Nice but not worth the hassle.

[Mahoney]

Pity - the quality aspect sounds very nice indeed! Oh well.

[jethro]

So, bottom line is that no HTPC device (MCE or Sage) will be as good of quality as a standalone DVR (I was looking at a Pioneer w/ built in DVD-R). This was what I was originally going to get, but I thought the computer thing would give me a lot more flexibility at a lower cost (as I already owned the PC). It's always too good to be true, huh?!?

And when you compare quality, are you talking about compared to cable/sattelite & HDTV? Or do you mean even regular OTA analog broadcast? I am strictly OTA (though I'm wondering about trying DTV for standard broadcasts).

[nielm]

The computer thing still gives you lots of flexibility that a standalone DVR will not give you... (storing ripped DVDs on disk, expanding storage to match your needs, playback of internet radio stations, playback of MPEG-4 recompressed videos, viewing picture libraries, music libraries, multiple clients playing back from one server to name a few.)

[JUC]

Internet radio stations??? Through Sage??? Did I miss something?

[nielm]

No, but I run RealPlayer with a URL argument (which can be a menu item in Sage with my custom menus), and I can control it with my remote via Girder. For me thats good enough (and you could run winamp, WMP or whatever in the same way)

There is no way of doing this in a DVR!

The other major reason for an HTPC for me is that there although there are HDD Video recorders, or DVD writers with an HDD for sale in Belgium, none of them have an integrated EPG! So they have none of the features such as recording all episodes of a show...

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by jethro

standalone DVR (I was looking at a Pioneer w/ built in DVD-R).

I switched from a Toshiba RD-XS32 to SageTV because of CPRM and the "Copy-Once" flag on HBO/CINEMAX channels. I could only record them to the HDD or DVD-RAM disks which only the Toshiba could play back. With SageTV I could record them and then author a DVD-R disk. Plus after getting SageTV the streaming of video to the whole house from a Server PC made it the better choice anyway.

BobP.

[mlbdude]

Quality issues only apply to SVideo or lower (interlaced 480i output). Once you get into HDTV (even outputting standard def TV to an HDTV) you remove this problem as your HDTV wants to display progressive video anyway.

[Mahoney]

Quality issues only apply to SVideo or lower (interlaced 480i output). Once you get into HDTV (even outputting standard def TV to an HDTV) you remove this problem as your HDTV wants to display progressive video anyway.
Reply With Quote

Is an HDTV then to all intents and purposes a monitor?

Good to know - not that I'll be getting an HDTV any time soon, but at least it's a future fixable thing.

[jethro]

Hey, BobPhoenix. When you switched over from the Toshiba, did you notice a drop in overall picture quality? Did it seem to be more 'pixelated' or at a slightly lower frame rate? And were you viewing to a regular TV set on both?

Thanks. This could be really helpful, as I just saw a out-of-box RD-SX32 at Best Buy for only $250. Any other comments on this?

[nielm]

Originally Posted by Mahoney

Is an HDTV then to all intents and purposes a monitor?

Good to know - not that I'll be getting an HDTV any time soon, but at least it's a future fixable thing.

That depends on your TV... Some TVs have VGA inputs, some have DVI inputs, and some people use dongles to convert the VGA signals into RGB component video signals compatible with TVs... I believe it still needs some tweaking with things like PowerStrip to get correct refresh rates...

For displaying an SDTV (interlaced) recording onto a HDTV (progressive) display, you still need good deinterlacing, and for the larger HDTV resolutions, you may need a good filtering upsizer such as in FFdshow (just like when displaying to a high res montor!)

[mlbdude]

Originally Posted by nielm

That depends on your TV... Some TVs have VGA inputs, some have DVI inputs, and some people use dongles to convert the VGA signals into RGB component video signals compatible with TVs... I believe it still needs some tweaking with things like PowerStrip to get correct refresh rates...

For displaying an SDTV (interlaced) recording onto a HDTV (progressive) display, you still need good deinterlacing, and for the larger HDTV resolutions, you may need a good filtering upsizer such as in FFdshow (just like when displaying to a high res montor!)

If you use either an ATI or nVIdia the drivers support HDTV's right out of the box. Deinterlacing is still needed, however, with an HDTV it will alwasy be dineterlaced and the HTPC seems to do a better job than the TV.

Ffdshow it great for film but I have not had tood luck with video content myself.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by jethro

Hey, BobPhoenix. When you switched over from the Toshiba, did you notice a drop in overall picture quality? Did it seem to be more 'pixelated' or at a slightly lower frame rate? And were you viewing to a regular TV set on both?

Thanks. This could be really helpful, as I just saw a out-of-box RD-SX32 at Best Buy for only $250. Any other comments on this?

It might be a little softer in SageTV but that is most likely because I haven't calibrated my PVR cards yet. They looked excellent just out of the box to me so I haven't felt the need to yet. Now that I have an HDTV I'm going to look into calibrating the cards to get the best picture possible. Since my cable signal has problems anyway I can't say I noticed a difference on the 'pixelation' or the frame rate. Yes I went to the same TV for both now an 30" Toshiba HDTV from BestBuy. For me the RD-SX32 was a waist of 700 dollars and so was the Philips I had before the Toshiba. I really like the ability to record all of my cable chanels and record to DVD-R format and even more the ability to stream the video all around the house I won't be going back. The only thing I liked about the Toshiba better then using SageTV was the editing of the Videos on the Toshiba was really nice compared to the PC options I have tried (hauppauge mpeg editor and VideoRedo). But once I get back into editing out the commercials and triming the padding off on the front and the back of the videos I'm sure I will get use to the PC options and come to like them better.

BobP.