DVI to HDMI trouble connecting TV

[DjJohn97]

Hello. I recently purchased a Sony Widescreen TV that is HDready and has HDMI connections.

I am getting a poor quality signal using the SVIDEO connection, so I went out and bought a DVI to HDMI cord and have attempted to hook the computer up to the TV. I have been running into problems....

My setup:
Dell P4 PC
Hauppage PVR-150
512 megs ram
All in Wonder Video card with DVI and SVideo out
Windows XP Home
Sony 34 inch wide screen regular tv with HD ready

Anyway when I connect the computer to the TV using the DVI to HDMI the picture works, however, the resolution is locked at the lowest setting and the screen size is way too large (i cannot see the full desktop).

I have gone into the Monitor settings and windows will not let me increase the resolution size or make any adjustments to the image size. I have attempted to view a showwith Sage, however because the screen size is so messed up and the resolution is so poor I am not having any luck with it.

Has anyone had any luck connecting their computer to their tv with a DVI to HDMI cable? Is this a lost cause?

Thanks,
John

[cummings66]

You don't mention what your resolution is, but you might be able to use powerstrip to map your display. Assuming you are really using DVI out it should be doable.

I'm not sure how ATI drivers work, but Nvidia 71.84 have settings to actually output HDTV resolutions and maybe your card's drivers do as well.

If it doesn't, most likely 848x480 will be what you want because if you choose something like 1024x768 it will distort the text and make it hard to read things.

[mlbdude]

WIth an ATI you realy want to use the component adapter. If you can't then you will need PowerSTrip to create a new monitor defintion to unlock the other resolutions. It is not an easy thing to do but there is some information on it in the AVS forums.

[cummings66]

Just out of curiosity, why would you want component instead of DVI if your card can do both equally well?

DVI should give a better pic compared to the other methods.

For an ATI card you can probably go the the AVS forum and click on DaGamePimp's web link and copy his ATI Powerstrip settings for pixel mapping and save yourself a ton of work.

[mlbdude]

DVI has some limitations. The biggest being black and white crush. On my system using DVI I loose quite a bit of detail in dark scenes that I don't care to loose - but I am picky. However, once both are calibrated the IQ seems identical other that the previosly mentioned DVI issue.

This may also greatly depend on your TV type. I use a CRT, but those using DLP or LCD may get better results with DVI since those TV's have the DVI limitiation built in and are also fully digital.

[dbfresh23]

If you install the ATI drivers with the Catalyst Control Center it will allow you to change the resolution of the output being used for the tv. I had a similar problem with resolution, installing the CCC drivers and using it to configure the card fixed it. Though I'm using a Radeon 9700Pro - not an AIW.

[DjJohn97]

Thanks for the replies regarding the problems I have been expierencing...

A couple people have mentioned using component? My video card does not have component out it only has Svideo or the DVI output.

I use component to connect my dvd player to the tv and the quality is great. It would be awesome if I can do that with my computer... I have this great tv that is high quality, but the shows that are recorded are of low quality even though I have the recording mode set to Max quality. It seems to be something to do with the video card.

Also - someone mentioned an Nvidea card that has HD output? What model and where can I get that? I looked on circuit city's webpage and I didnt seem to locate any cards that the specs stated they had HD output or component for that matter.

Thanks for your help.

John

[DjJohn97]

Also... I saw something mentioned about the AVS forums? I did not see a forum listed as that. I also did a search for DaGamePimp but nothing came up.

Thanks,
John

[dbfresh23]

For like $30, ATI sells a small adapter that converts your DVI to Component

http://shop.ati.com/product.asp?sku=2537967 - That

Though I'm still pretty sure that the CCC drivers available freely from ATI will fix your problem.

[cummings66]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

Many graphic cards can output HD. I'm using an old 5700 FX and it will do it, the newer 6600 which is preferred will do it, as will even older cards. The ATI's can do so as well, but you need updated drivers to do it.

DVI does not crush blacks, what can and will do it is improper level settings or driver problems. Look at this page for more info on this.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=523614

In the end how DVI looks depends on what you run the output stream through before it gets to the display. It can look very good, or look bad. Many people use settings that are named in a way to make you think it's one thing when it's really doing something quite different. For example, ffdshow has a setting called levels and if you use it you'll screw things up because it expands your 16 - 235 range to 0 - 255, thus clipping the blacks and whites and stretching the clipped range over a wider area than it should be.

If you get it to work, use VMR9 if possible, capture a screenshot of the live video input from Chapter 12 of DVE showing the ramps. Then using a paint program look at the colors and see if the blacks are 000 or 16 16 16 and if they're 000 you're crushing them and need to adjust the capture settings. Do the same for whites at 235. You'll notice the white dots above the ramp, that's where those numbers are. 7.5 IRE = 16 16 16 using DVI for black.

I won't claim all computers will pass proper video levels over DVI, but because it's digital it should be able to do so if you calibrate the program doing the capturing and don't screw with the output unless you know what things do. Save programs like ffdshow for later as they can really mess you up big time.

For example, calibrate SageTV's inputs. Once done calibrate the display so it does what you need, i.e. the blacks are truely black. Again, the AVS forums have an excellent forum for HTPC's and how to calibrate them.

I wouldn't buy a new video card yet, I suspect you can get the one you have working fine. One thing I wonder, when you said what graphic card you had, did you really mean it was the original first run of those cards? The first ones are pretty outdated now and I could see problems there, but if it's the later ones I'd think it would be ok.

[mlbdude]

It is pretty obvious and a well known issue with DVI that it crushes whits and blacks. On a properly calibrated display switching between the inputs it is very noticeable. It might be the kind of display I am using, but what DVI puts out is definitely not something I find desirable.

[DjJohn97]

Ok. I have installed the Catalyst.

My TV screen output through the dvi to hdmi cable is still locked at Screen 640x480, 8 bit color. I have gone through all the settings. I found something under FPD tab that says force 1080i mode. When I do that I get a blank screen and then after 30 seconds or so it goes back to the old mode.

I have WIN XP Home
512 ram
ATI ALl in Wonder 7500 card
Hauppage PVR-250 card

I looked through the manual for catalyst and have tried to troubleshoot on the ATI page. Do I just have a bad video card? Should I upgrade to the Nvideo card that some of your have discussed?

Thanks for your help. It seems like I may be doomed to staying in low quality or pay for a stupid tevo to get high quality recordings.

John

[turak]

Originally Posted by DjJohn97

Thanks for your help. It seems like I may be doomed to staying in low quality or pay for a stupid tevo to get high quality recordings.

John

My Tivo doesn't look that good on my 61" Samsung DLP. SageTV set to 1080i looks much much better on my TV. I'm using a MSI 6600GT through DVI. The only downside is I have to use overlay instead of VMR9 in sage.

[cummings66]

Looking at the specs of that card I'd buy a new 6600 myself. It's not that great of a card and with only 64 Megs of ram it's kind of limited compared to what's out there now.

I could see how it might not work well based on what I've seen, it's a DX7 card and you really need a DX9 to do things right.

[cummings66]

Originally Posted by mlbdude

It is pretty obvious and a well known issue with DVI that it crushes whits and blacks.

Not that I mean to argue but what do you have for a card and display?

I know the Zenith 318 had some pretty good white crush until it's firmware was upgraded which fixed it.

My belief is it's not DVI that crushes but rather the implementation that does so. For example normal levels on a DVD are from 16 - 235. DVI will handle 0 - 255, although 0 and 255 are not legal values, so it can't crush it because there's enough foot and head room to handle the range on a DVD if the DVI implementation is correct, not all are as Zenith demonstrated with it's early 318 DVD player.

I'm sure there are other flawed things out there. I just learned at a technical school on DLP's I attended that Panasonic DLP's hang a DA converter on their DVI input so you're screwed from the git go with them. Not all brands do this though.

I've been an authorized repair technician for RCA, Philips, and Zenith for 20 years now and have seen a fair share of screwups on all those brands. The Panasonic data was from another servicer who is authorized to repair that brand and he just passed that along. We were chatting about Sony and other displays and which ones seemed to have the best PQ, reliability, and where the market is headed. Of course the engineer teaching the class had his opinions as well.

[mlbdude]

Originally Posted by cummings66

Not that I mean to argue but what do you have for a card and display?

I know the Zenith 318 had some pretty good white crush until it's firmware was upgraded which fixed it.

My belief is it's not DVI that crushes but rather the implementation that does so. For example normal levels on a DVD are from 16 - 235. DVI will handle 0 - 255, although 0 and 255 are not legal values, so it can't crush it because there's enough foot and head room to handle the range on a DVD if the DVI implementation is correct, not all are as Zenith demonstrated with it's early 318 DVD player.

I'm sure there are other flawed things out there. I just learned at a technical school on DLP's I attended that Panasonic DLP's hang a DA converter on their DVI input so you're screwed from the git go with them. Not all brands do this though.

I've been an authorized repair technician for RCA, Philips, and Zenith for 20 years now and have seen a fair share of screwups on all those brands. The Panasonic data was from another servicer who is authorized to repair that brand and he just passed that along. We were chatting about Sony and other displays and which ones seemed to have the best PQ, reliability, and where the market is headed. Of course the engineer teaching the class had his opinions as well.

I am using an nVidia 6600, and a Sony CRT RPTV (Current model). Calibrating for video levels with VMR9 for each input black levels are noticeably not as good as component. Also, with the nVidia (I think this is driver related though) there is considerable banding over DVI. Keep in mind that I am VERY picky, but if I can notice something just by watching a movie that I have already seen it is too much for me.

With the 6600 it has allowed me to have both inputs hooked up at the same time and I can just toggle the inputs/color calibration on my TV for comparison.

[cummings66]

I'm hesitant now. I was thinking of upgrading my Nvidia 5700 for the 6600 but I wonder if others have noticed banding?

My 5700 does not band at all, but it does have other issues like a sort of skip once in a while which is why I was thinking of upgrading. I calibrated my 5700 by capturing the image and comparing the RGB levels in it to what they're supposed to be, i.e. 16 and 235 on the ramps and then adjusted the display to the thing after that. But, there might be a difference in chipset here. What 6600 do you have by the way because there are several out there and I was looking at just the plain jane 6600 and not GT, but I did want 256M of ram on the AGP buss.

I run the 71.84 drivers for what it's worth and this is what I was looking at;

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...121-196&depa=0

[mlbdude]

Others on the AVS forums are reporting the banding. Over component on the same card it is not there. Those same people claim they did not see it until the new drivers. I did not use the card too much before these drivers so I can't comment.

I started with an XFX 6600GT but got rid of it due to noise/heat and the lack of a component option.

I am now using the Leadtek 6600. Much quieter and best is less heat (with the XFX I had a hairdryer instead of an HTPC).

Overall I am pretty happy with it. It is a bit disappointing that it is not as fast in VMR9 as my old ATI 9600, but I think as the drivers improve that may change.

I also have a 5700, and the 6600 looks no better to my eyes. Never had any performance issues with the 5700 though.

[tdalton]

This sounds a bit disconcerting to me. I am running Sage and using it only on my laptop now but I have just purchased a 62" Mitsu DLP which has HDMI and obviously component. It's mind boggling to me to think that DVI would have more quirks to it and require the calibration that has been discussed in this forum. As far as using the 6600 are you favoring the component output to the DVI? In general one would think that DVI would always have a crisper picture but I do understand poor implmentation of features often leads to less than desirable results it just seems that here we are talking about eliminating a digital to analog conversion with DVI. Also is there a video card better suited for htpc/Sage that is as good or better than the 6600 that can handle VMR9?