DVD Standard Quality 2 hrs doesn't fit on a dvd

[churcj2]

Something I've long wondered is why the DVD Standard Quality that Sage TV can write at with a WinTV PVR 250 is usually in excessive of 3 gigs for a 1 hr show.

Standard single layer dvds advertise 2hrs play and a straight copy of the mpeg would only allow for just over a 1 hr show (maybe an 1 1/2hrs perhaps). I've only fiddle a bit with DVD authoring software but it seems when encoded at this quality the space needed to write to the DVD is in access of the the 4.7 limit. I can tell the DVD Authoring software to go to Long Play but then that degrades the quality of the original MPEG.

I'm I just missing something, or do I need to get sageTV to encode the MPEG at a lower rate. IE DVD long play in sage TV (but then the quality starts to suffer).

[dvd_maniac]

you can create your own quality recording settings. Just create one that allows you to fit 2 hours on a dvd-r.

You can find the information to do this HERE...

[korben_dallas]

This may work for you, depending on your situation, as other forum members have reported success in making their own custom recording qualities with a constant bit rate. The standard DVD-r/rw is 4.7GB. You'll want to leave around 500MB for the directory structure and possible extra's. That leaves you with 4.2GB, or 2.1GB per hour. 2,100,000,000 x 8bits / 3600seconds is 4,666,666 or 4.67Mbps video capture bit rate.

edit: DVD beat me to it!

[nielm]

You can also create an oversized DVD filestructure, then use dvdshrink to shrink it to the required 4.7G

[falchulk]

Originally Posted by nielm

You can also create an oversized DVD filestructure, then use dvdshrink to shrink it to the required 4.7G

True, but that's a recompress and could be done during the burn job by nero and a few of the others. He did not want to "degrade" the original mpeg with recompression.

[nerys]

also recompressing does not work well with sage recording I know I tried it.

what I would prefer is sage MODIFY there naming to be inline with industry standards

DVD HQ ia 1 hour per dvd
DVD SP Standard Quality is 2 hours per dvd
DVD LP Long Play is 4 hours per DVD
DVD SLP or EP Extended Play or Super Long Play is 6 hours per dvd

Sage TV should have it list modified to reflect this industry standard set of recording modes (double all of this for DL media)

there is one more mode but no dvd recorder supports it to my knowledge

it basically VCD but with 48khz audio to give 7hours20minutes on a dvd (nearly 15 hours on DL media !!!)

I picked dvd standard thinking I could split it up into 2 dvd's and later use a DL disk to record the superbowl

I ended up with a 16gig file !! even after first pass compression (would take 2 to shrink it enough to fit) the quality was so horrible I just gave up and deleted it.

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[buzzerbee]

Originally Posted by nerys

what I would prefer is sage MODIFY there naming to be inline with industry standards

DVD HQ ia 1 hour per dvd
DVD SP Standard Quality is 2 hours per dvd
DVD LP Long Play is 4 hours per DVD
DVD SLP or EP Extended Play or Super Long Play is 6 hours per dvd

I agree and I also liked having the approx file sizes listed too

[buck1952]

Heres 'Custom Recording Quality Profiles' for a 4.3 gig file @ 60 min. to 200 min. in 10 minutes increments, myQualitiesHrs.txt
Paste all lines starting at the first 'mmc/python2_encoding/Movie' into your sage properties file.

Paramerters for all profiles-
audiooutputmode - stereo
audiocrc - off
gopsize - 15
videobitrate - needed bitrate for movie length to fit 4.3gb
inversetelecine - off
closedgop - off
vbr - off (cbr)
outputstreamtype - Program Stream
width - 720
height - 480
audiobitrate - 224
audiosampling - 48000

[dvd_maniac]

@neyrs

it basically VCD but with 48khz audio to give 7hours20minutes on a dvd (nearly 15 hours on DL media !!!)

Are you talking about KVCD or KDVD?

there is one more mode but no dvd recorder supports it to my knowledge

Many newer players do play KVCD or KDVD.

[nerys]

no idea what kdvd or kvcd is

352x240 1500kbit 48khz audio is a legitimate dvd standard ANY dvd player on the planet should play it just fine.

not many devices (none that I am aware of) encode it directly IE standalone dvd recorders etc..

its one of my HUGE pet peeves that dvd authoring software FORCES me to reencode 44khz audio to 48khz even though I know for a fact that every single dvd player on earth can play 44khz audio JUST FINE :-(

you see even though dvd players can read 44khz fine VCD players of which I have several in cd and hd formats) can NOT read 48khz audio

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[buzzerbee]

Originally Posted by buck1952

Heres 'Custom Recording Quality Profiles' for a 4.3 gig file @ 60 min. to 200 min. in 10 minutes increments, myQualitiesHrs.txt
Paste all lines starting at the first 'mmc/python2_encoding/Movie' into your sage properties file.

I tried this and it didn't work for me. Can you assist me?

I test recorded 2 30 min shows- the first was recorded at the 2 hr setting and the 2d at the 3 hr setting. The 2 hr file is 1.08 GB and the 3 hr file is 772 MB.

In my (TMPGEnc) DVD authoring app, I tried to fit 4 of the 1.08 MB files (the same one 4 times) and it informed me that I am using 4494 vs 4438 allowed.
Same for the 3 hr file. I added it 6 times in the DVD authoring app and it came out to 4709 vs a max of 4438.

Should I change something?

Thanks

[churcj2]

Thanks for the info.

I'll have to give it a try with one of the smaller mb/s option and customize the sage quality list. Looks like something around 4660000 bits)/second will do the trick. I two would definately prefer settings that are similar to the standard dvd lengths. Still customizing is always a + as we all have our quicks.

From a quality perception point of view how does 4660000 bits/s compare to sages dvd standard which is currently around 6600000 bits/s? I know that is fairly subjective - In the end I'll just have to try it myself to see if I'm happy with it.

Would compressing the resulting 1hr at 4660000(2.2G) vs 660000(3gig) to mpeg4 result in a much smaller file? Currently I encode with mencoder using about 2000000bits/s and I can compress the 3 gigs down to just under 1 gig with little to no quality loss (or atleast fairly tolerable to my eyes). I'm wondering if I run the same process on the 2.2G file if it will make that much of a difference in size. Not a big deal i guess, I just run mencoder at night time when I'm not recording anything.

[nerys]

except that its really hard to customize since you can not GET RID OF formats un the list which is reslly annoying :-(

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[dvd_maniac]

@BuzzerBee

are these episode shows with commercials? If so, TMPGenc DVDAuthor has a way of cutting them out which will save you alot of space.

Also, remember what Korben said about having room for the dvd structure.
He states 500MB, which is with motion menus and chapter pages. But you could get that down to around 200MB if you use static or no menus.

Remember that blank DVDs are only 4.38GB and not the 4.7GB .

[buck1952]

Originally Posted by buzzerbee

In my (TMPGEnc) DVD authoring app, I tried to fit 4 of the 1.08 MB files (the same one 4 times) and it informed me that I am using 4494 vs 4438 allowed.
Same for the 3 hr file. I added it 6 times in the DVD authoring app and it came out to 4709 vs a max of 4438.
Thanks

A 2 hour movie with quality profile “Movie - 2hr” may be a little under or a little over 4.3G.
To be safe chose Movie – 2hr 10 min.

VideoHelp has a good bitrate calculator you could test different bitrates.
http://www.dvdrhelp.com/calc.htm

[buzzerbee]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

@BuzzerBee

are these episode shows with commercials? If so, TMPGenc DVDAuthor has a way of cutting them out which will save you alot of space.

Also, remember what Korben said about having room for the dvd structure.
He states 500MB, which is with motion menus and chapter pages. But you could get that down to around 200MB if you use static or no menus.

Remember that blank DVDs are only 4.38GB and not the 4.7GB .

yeah, I knew the calculations weren't exact, which is why I tried to make a test run DVD with the files. The shows I'm going to be recording are w/o commercials; there may be a little padding on the ends but I can't plan for that.
I'll use 2 hr 10 as buck1952 suggested, or this one that I adapted a little from the default file- I 'm making two 1 hr files using it, to see what I get:

mmc/python2_encoding/buzzerbee\ 2\ Hour=videobitrate\=4500000|peakvideobitrate\=6000000|vbr\=1|width\=720|height\=480|audiobitrate\=384|outputstreamtype\=10|audiosampling\=48000

[dvd_maniac]

there may be a little padding on the ends but I can't plan for that.

You might not be able to plan for it, but you can cut it out. Along with the credits too. When I was backing up some of my DVDs to DVD-r and the movie would ALMOST fit without shrinking. I input the dvd into TMPGenc and trim out the end credits. Sometimes credits take upto 400-500MB. And this extra space can be used for better quality video. Unless it's a Jackie Chan movie with those funny bloopers