Studdering video when using VMR9

[WeatherB]

Hey guys,
I'm having some problems with video playback of Live TV when using VMR9, the audio is fine by the video studders. Every few seconds the video freezes.

Here are my specs:

Sage TV (newest non beta)
Sonic Cineplayer Codec
DX9c
Windows XP SP2

Athlon 64 2800+
1 GB Ram
Geforce 6800 video card
Hauppauge PVR-250
Using regular cable.

thanks

[kny3twalker]

SageTV has yet to update to the new Renderless Exclusive mode VMR9 that microsoft has told software makers to use when rendering in VMR9

until they do, we will always have poor video playback at least with recorded TV since the deinterlaing is not a pretty job for the decoders unlike DVDs with VMR9 rendering

there has been quite a lot of members here request this from SageTV
but our request seem to be ignored

other apps like Zoomplayer have evolved and started to test the VMR9 specific mode and have been having very good luck

I have no idea why SageTV has decided that VMR9 is not an important feature for their software

you should email them and request "Renderless Exclusive mode VMR9"

[nielm]

Originally Posted by kny3twalker

SageTV has yet to update to the new Renderless Exclusive mode VMR9 that microsoft has told software makers to use when rendering in VMR9...

there has been quite a lot of members here request this from SageTV but our request seem to be ignored

Kny3twalker: a quick search suggests that you are the only one regularly asking for it

Narflex has already responded (both in forums and email) that Sage already uses Renderless mode with a custom allocatorin VMR9 ever since the beginning of 2.0....

[Wheemer]

I am definately asking for it aswell. More people would be if they knew the benifits of using it.

Exlcusive Fullscreen Mode is needed!!!!

[dagar]

If that is what needs to be implemented to fix it -- I'd like it for my 3 clients as well.

[kny3twalker]

Kny3twalker: a quick search suggests that you are the only one regularly asking for it

and no SageTV has not still gotten the idea that they must use both renderless mode VMR9 and exclusive mode to get smooth tear free VMR9 playback

TheaterTek is another app that just jumped on this Renderless exclusive mode VMR9 and zoomplayer is in alpha development at AVSforum
http://www.theatertek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7060

I very much doubt I am the only one
I remember quite a few people leaving SageTV to get MCE so they could get smooth VMR9 playback

anyways Microsoft has told app makers for over a year that this is the only/best way to get smooth playback with VMR9 and I guess SageTV will just wait another year before they decide this is a must to compete with other apps

I might be asking for it the most but not the only one
since I am willing to say what the problem is and how it can be fixed
instead of passing the blame on like hardware etc....

although with lower end video cards(like 5200s and 5700s) HDTV can be choppy using renderless exclusive mode VMR9
but recorded SDTV should be fine

as it is now
you can have a freakin super computer and still get choppy playback with even recorded SDTV

now tell me one reason that SageTV should not put down everything they are doing and start developing this FULLY
not incompletely like they have left us

and with statements like that from older experienced moderators or members
that is why we do not have it
you would rather side step the problem
and say that I am complaining or the "only one wanting it"
rather than face it and encourage SageTV to develope this for its users

[dagar]

Which I can reduce down to: why the hell do I need a Radeon 9700 Pro or faster to watch TV with reasonable PQ and still get studdering.

[ben_gb]

To be fair, although Kny3twalker may be the only person specifically asking for "renderless mode VMR9 and exclusive mode", many more people have been asking for tear-free playback, which, from the explanations given, seems to amount to the same thing!

Regards,
Ben

[something fishy]

The OP is describing what I see on my system using the VMR9 and I do not think that it reflects a hardware limitation - given the hardware I'm using it seems too gross for that.

(After failing with a scheme to keep playback interlaced along the chain) I am using nVDVD 4 (1.00.67) with a 6600GT (71.80beta drivers). I get chronic stuttering/dropped frames in Sage using VMR9.

The screen resolution is only 720*576@50p with the desktop cloned to s-video out (at a PAL resolution: 720*576@50i). The aspect ratio controls are set so that horizontal and vertical image size is 100% (so the video surface does not extend off screen).

This isn't the occasional glitch. The image "sticks" for maybe 0.1 or 0.2 seconds and then drops frames to catch up - it happens constantly and makes the VMR unwatchable. The problem is there (and as far as I can see unchanged) whether or not I have reclock in the graph (I am in PAL land so 50p is a multiple of the framerate) and whether or not I force vsync (either in reclock or through Sage's UsePresentationInterval registry key). Using the overlay I get silky smooth playback (writing this I realise that I haven’t checked the vsync switch in the graphics card drivers – I will this evening). Positively there is no tearing (but I wouldn't expect there to be at this resolution)

DVDs (mine are mostly NTSC) view much smoother - even though there is a frame rate conversion involved.

I would like to solve this as (stuttering aside) the VMR9 gives an image that looks closer to that of my PVR350.

Cheers
Eric

Full system specs:
WinXP home sp2
P4 2.0GHz 512Mb Ram
PVR250, PVR350
Sage 2.2.5RC1 run in service mode
6600GT (71.80beta) at 720*576@50p s-video (720*576@50i) to SDTV.

[Crazedz]

I'll throw in here and say i'd like to see this as well having to use overlay instead of VMR9 because of these issues and loosing transperancy just sucks. Plus overlay doesn't look so good.

[kny3twalker]

I also agree with the VMR9 looks better than overlay and VMR9 does better deinterlacing as well

[nielm]

kny3twalker: I was saying in a tongue in cheek manner that mentioning it in every other post will not get it implemented any faster...

...Especially if the developer thinks that he has already implemented what you were asking for (you were only asking for renderless with a custom allocator at first)...

...And calling their decisions stupid really won't help at all!

There have been a whole load of VMR-9 buzzwords thrown around and mixed up in these (and other) forums: windowless, renderless, exclusive, custom allocator-presenter, but nowhere have I seen a clear, concise description that a programmer can understand of what you are effectively asking for...

You mentioned

• TheaterTek -- all they say in the release notes is that they will add Renderless (but Sage already does Renderless)
• MediaPortal -- They have 2 separate VMR-9 options: windowless and renderless
• ZP is still a work in progres with 4 different VMR-9 modes: Windowed, Windowless and Renderless + Custom

All we know for Sage is that is uses VMR9 renderless with a custom allocator-presenter as mentioned by Narflex (whatever that means).

Anyway, VMR9 looks crap on my system, Overlay looks far better, and I am not talking about stuttering and tearing and deinterlacing artifacts (which I do not have): the simple color depth just is not there in VMR9...

[nielm]

Originally Posted by Crazedz

I'll throw in here and say i'd like to see this as well having to use overlay instead of VMR9 because of these issues and loosing transperancy just sucks. Plus overlay doesn't look so good.

You know you can get transparancy in overlay in 2.2 if you disable 3d accelleration and enable overlay color keying? (based on an idea by yours truly in his 2.0 STV )

[nielm]

Ps: WeatherB, sorry for the thread-jack

[WeatherB]

LOL, not a problem I noticed that if I change the decoder to something else and overlay, then change it back, it works correctly. weird

[kny3twalker]

Anyway, VMR9 looks crap on my system, Overlay looks far better, and I am not talking about stuttering and tearing and deinterlacing artifacts (which I do not have): the simple color depth just is not there in VMR9...

after calibrating my TV for VMR9 the color depth is much better than overlay
and all sagetv needs to do is add exclusive mode
that is what other app do to get the "tear free" playback

[WeatherB]

Mine doesn't tear... It is more like it freezes for one sec and then it fine.

[Opus4]

Just to double check on other things (I didn't notice this being covereed above already)... are the recordings on a partition with 64K clusters and are you playing VMR9 on the primary monitor?

- Andy

[kny3twalker]

Mine doesn't tear... It is more like it freezes for one sec and then it fine.

same difference

Just to double check on other things (I didn't notice this being covereed above already)... are the recordings on a partition with 64K clusters and are you playing VMR9 on the primary monitor?

I will go with that but still think SageTV is avioding the inevitable here

[WeatherB]

Harddrive was converted to 64K clusters and VMR9 on primary screen