Frey Technologies at CES

[srothwell]

Originally Posted by Cayars

Yep, I don't think there are any 1920x1080 LCD monitors either but I run 1600x1200 on my LCD and can decode HD to this output just fine with my FX-5700 and it plays just fine (Alianware Notebook). So I don't think 1920x1080 is going to be that big a deal with a high end computer.

I have a 1920x1200 monitor on my PC and I have no problem playing back 1080i files.

Maybe I'm missing something on this thread but I don't understand why we're re-comrpessing the OTA HD signal that's already compressed.

I mean, it's only 19 Mbps. That's less than DV or HDV. It seems to me it would make the most sense to simply record the bitstream, which is what cards like HDWonder do, or even the cable company's PVR. Again, I may have missed some part of the discussion in the thread though.

Now, would definitely see advantages to having a MPEG4 or DivX card that could re-encode to make the file smaller.

Also, my dream plug-in card would be a CableCard tuner. Most Sony TV's now have built-in CableCard that no longer requires a cable company's STB unless you want bi-directional data flow (i.e. PPV or VOD).

If I had to pick a card for someone to develop, it would be that. A PCT-Based card that you stick the CableCard in. Then you have access to all the digital cable programming (including HD over cable) without the crazy USBUIRT with the cable box.

And, the best news is, the FCC requires all cable companies to support CableCard. Since there are not 6 different models of the same Sony TV that depends on your cable company, it says to me there is a standard now and that someone should be able to creat the PCI card I'm talking about.

Stacy

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by jptaz

I agree with SHS - you would need a really fast interface to be able to bring in 237.3MB/s of uncompressed 1920x1080i at 30 Frames Per Second (60 interlaces frames). EVen at 1280x720P we are talking about 210MB/s. So even if you could pull the data into the PC and get it to the video card to display that is all you could do since I am unaware of any drive that can sustain that kind write performance even with a raid.

Why on earth would you want to work with uncompressed?

Also in terms of software playback of HD content I question how well it really works since no PC based software decoder I have seen can do smooth fast motion playback. It doesn't matter how fast the PC is because PCs can not do the timing accurately enough to get the frames to show up at the correct time. MPEG2 decoders have specialized clocks that make sure that things happen at the exact time.

I've been doing this and it works quite well and this is with an FX-5700. This isn't done via SageTV BTW.

The major plus side with HD versus SD content from an encoding card is that the HD content is more like to be a perfectly encoded stream as opposed to the less than perfect stream from the encoders. This makes the odds of a software decoder doing a good job better, but still not as good as a hardware solution.

Just my opion.

John

HD content doesn't need to be decoded when captured, that's the beauty of it.

[kny3twalker]

HD content doesn't need to be decoded when captured, that's the beauty of it.

thats encoded

[ErsatzTom]

Originally Posted by mwhitlock

I almost forgot to brag! Here it is: You all only wish you had a SageTV pen like mine. Muahahaha!!

Oh, man, I want one!

t

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by srothwell

Maybe I'm missing something on this thread but I don't understand why we're re-comrpessing the OTA HD signal that's already compressed.

There was some confusion about the hardware MPEG encoder on that card. Odds are, 10000:1, that it's for SD.

However a card capable of realtime compression of HD Component input is sort of the holy grail of the PC/PVR world, it would allow recording of anything in HD, like we do now with SD, and would avoid any nasty DRM required. Of course it looks like we're going toward direct digital transport stream capture with DRM instead.

[kny3twalker]

as things are now
with pq is how it is with sd
I would rather test the waters of drm
if it is just no burning of material fine
if cataloguing is an issue
I think HD hardware compression should be looked at again

[SHS]

Take that your using DVI to HDMI is that rigth kny3twalker?.

[kny3twalker]

yeah got the cable ram electronics
good price for 15 ft $63
and analogue audio
sounds good too

[SHS]

Cayars (Why on earth would you want to work with uncompressed?) that eazy to record 720x480 in real time with having re-render the entire movie with software that that there all ready in MPEG format then all we need to do is burn to DVD but there no Component input Hardware MPEG encoder that can take High rez image and down render to 720x480 in REALtime after all with HDTV content you (2) DualLayer DVD disk if I recall rigth with 2 hour clip.

[Crazedz]

Originally Posted by mwhitlock

So how do you hook up both analog cable and an antenna? Perhaps it can tune analog cable along with digital cable, or receive analog OTA broadcast along with digital ATSC, but it doesn't seem you could mix them. Is that right?

Ahh but you never mentioned mixing analog cable with ota antenna you just said "looking at the cards single coax one would assume it doesn't tune analog cable at all."

I was merely pointing out that it is possible to do analog and hdtv over one coax. Now getting OTA HD and cable SD is another matter altogether and ill admit that no neither card can do that, But then you never specified that in the prior post.


Yeah SHS ya know i had forgotten MCE's DRM thanks for pointing that out but then i don't think beyond has any drm in it and they already have HD working with some cards albeit in a buggy way and others have also been working on getting HDtv cards working in their pvr software since may of 04 when the BDA filters code came out and are about where beyond is or a little further along in it so i dont think sage can afford to wait with this for much longer.

As for encoding of HDTV streams i thought or could have sworn that the streams came in already encoded so all the card had to do was recieve the stream and dump it to the harddrive for later playback.

Though a question does come to mind since their is going to be a switch at least by directtv to mpeg4 and hdtv cards are designed to capture and pass out mpeg2 streams does that mean their essentually useless for directtv after the switch occures?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Crazedz

As for encoding of HDTV streams i thought or could have sworn that the streams came in already encoded so all the card had to do was recieve the stream and dump it to the harddrive for later playback.

You're correct, however you are limited to OTA, or in the clear QAM cable. IF a card were to materialize, capable of realtime encoding HD component input (like the 250 does with SD S-Video) it would have none of those limitations. Just like today we can't record digital cable directly, but can quite easilly record the decoded (SD) output of a digital box.

Though a question does come to mind since their is going to be a switch at least by directtv to mpeg4 and hdtv cards are designed to capture and pass out mpeg2 streams does that mean their essentually useless for directtv after the switch occures?

I remember reading about upcomming DVB-S2 cards, which should be able to handle this.

Also, NO STBs output an MPEG transport stream, STBs only output UNCOMPRESSED video via either DVI or Component. HD is broadcast as a compressed transport stream, but the STBs decode/uncompress it an output it in it's raw, uncompressed for, for which there is no practical way to record it.

[sleonard]

Also, NO STBs output an MPEG transport stream, STBs only output UNCOMPRESSED video via either DVI or Component. HD is broadcast as a compressed transport stream, but the STBs decode/uncompress it an output it in it's raw, uncompressed for, for which there is no practical way to record it.

Well, except for Firewire outputs but then we're back to DRM restricting what we can and cannot record so my point is technically correct and practically moot.

[SHS]

kny3twalker where did get your TV at I check BestBuy, CircuitCity and they have KV model like the (KV-30HS420) and I also there from online store there a $400 diff.

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by SHS

Cayars (Why on earth would you want to work with uncompressed?) that eazy to record 720x480 in real time with having re-render the entire movie with software that that there all ready in MPEG format then all we need to do is burn to DVD but there no Component input Hardware MPEG encoder that can take High rez image and down render to 720x480 in REALtime after all with HDTV content you (2) DualLayer DVD disk if I recall rigth with 2 hour clip.

I think your talking about PRE-COMPRESSED video but I'm having a hard time understanding what you wrote.. You're referring to the stream, but the message I was referring to made it seem he was talking about real uncompressed video as in HUGE AVI type files.

[SHS]

No UNCOMPRESSED, RAW, etc video just like what are PVR 150/250/350/500/USB2 all rev as an input rigth now from TV, SVideo, etc, ect only it would be Component input like input 1920x1080 covert 720x480 encode to MPEG all in REALtime.

[kny3twalker]

well I got it at crutchfield
it is a new model and only store locally had it in
(Ultimate Electronics) and they would not work with me on the price
Crutchfield has no taxes or shipping and worked with me on the price
although if interested they offer the stand for free many times
the date on mine said November 2004

SHS this model KV-30HS420 does not have super fine pitch, the HD tuner/ cable card input, or memory card reader
nor a built in sub
the super fine pitch is more lines of resolution
I believe they have 1400 lines
the KV 30HS420 I would guess has somewhere between 800-1000

but I wanted the OTA tuner as well but maybe the KV 30HS420 maybe better since you could get a pci card
and at least could record from it as well

if you do not have a DVD calibration Disc
get one DVI is so far off by default over DVI
I need to buy one ASAP

but the price difference is worth it in my opinion
if I were to go with the KV series I would have went with the 34" since they are in the same price

[jptaz]

Pretty Cool...

So are you calling you cable company weekly to see when they will have CableCard?

John

[kny3twalker]

nope
cannot get digital cable where I live currently only analogue cable and directv
but I will be moving in a year
just have to decide where I am going to finish college
I am running OTA antenna for HDTV though
so I got a lot of good options just not the best one yet
I will make sure digital cable is available next place I move

[mwhitlock]

By the way, the press release on AVerMedia's web site says their card (UltraTV HD 1800 MCE) will "save digital TV programs directly to the PC's hard drive in the original digital format."