So what is sage media center?

[silkshadow]

My first reaction, once I figured out what Sage Media Center is, was there is no way this will be able to compte with Tivo in the US. I still think that is true but, you have to keep in mind a couple of factors.

1) The US is only one country. If this thing supports XMLTV seemlessly, the world market will be its target not the US exclusively. Tivo is usless outside of the US excepting Canada and Australia where there is great homebrew support for it. Of course, this means trying to sell an electronic appliance internationally which can be tricky.

2) That being said, this device is not competing against Tivo. Tivo is a pure appliance, nothing more. Its processor is useless, it can't browse the web, get RSS feeds, play the myriad of video file formats (codecs), or play games. Its a PVR - thats it - and its totally propriatary (MFS anyone?) whereas Sage is open. This Sage MC is really competing against MS Media Center and for ~$400 vs ~$1200+ it should do pretty well. Unfortunately, most people don't know how to use Linux and will not be able to do all the cool things with it techs can do. *shrug* just look at all the people on AVS who aren't familiar with Linux and are hacking their Tivos. I think this is not going to be an issue except for Mom/Dad/Grandma/Grandpa who would not buy this anyway.

but it's far more likely to support something like XMLTV than Tivo is.

Amen. I wasted a ton of time trying to get XMLTV data onto my Tivos when I moved out of the US. Even after I was able to do so, Tivo would GSOD randomly when I gave it, even only slightly, incorrect data.

Tivo's business model is not sustainable because its not built on any competitive advantage.

While true, Tivo has been able to beat out all contenders for the standalone market (re: Replay). However, once the PVR offerings from the cable companies started happening Tivo was/is in panic mode.

[jptaz]

I am not sure how "Lifetime" a tivo subscription is if they go under. If the Tivo doors shut and the dial-in servers or data severs that feed the guides to the Millions of Tivos in US are not on they no longer have service.

Tivo has its foot in the door and at this point is probably hinging it bets on the pop ad revenue and targeted marketing to help it failing financial situation.

It is basically counting on people like my coworker. I did some research on the other options and pointed out that if I were asked to recommend a solution to a non techie I would pick replay because it has superior networking capabilities and sharing of media among sets pointing out that you can stream it directly from another box. He basically said that he was ok with the Tivo method of copying the whole program from the other box before watching method. We will see how loyal he and other consumers are when they are forced to watch a pop up ad while fast forwarding. And who knows, down the line they may actually end up disabling the ability to fast forward at all or decrease how fast it is.

When it comes down to it PC based solutions will only get more attractive as they mature in ease of installation and use. While a Linux based SageTV system may not be much more attractive to some people than a tivo or replay as it is still a proprietary system. While SageTV is not open it does allow XMLTV at this point which means even if Frey died tomorrow all of us could in theory continue to have an EPG where as the Tivo / SageTVLinux/ Replay guys may be lost.

John

[silkshadow]

Sage is open enough that I do not need to do cartwheels to get shows from it onto a DVD. With Tivo you need some serious acrobatics to do show extraction. That was a big pain in the butt to get working.

However, you are 100% correct. Tivo has the branding. Its like Intel. AMD's CPUs have almost always been as good (in some cases better) as Intel's and a bunch cheaper. However, there are still many people who will only buy Intel processors or computers with Intel processors.

[Hector]

Yea I think Tivo is doomed if they don't make a big deal with someone. It was smart for them to partner up with Netflix who is also in the same boat but they still need a big player. They've lost DirecTV and they never had the cable companies. They don't have the feature set to compete in the high end market and the non tech market can get a pvr for $7 a month.

I think silkshadow is spot on, we shouldn't be comparing this to Tivo.

peace . . .

[Crazedz]

Well you know that other free pvr's now have guide data you can get from zap2it by creating a free account on zap2it's website from that point you have the pvr login to zap2it using your account and download the guide data without any cost.

So if sage (god forbid) were to ever go under then it could still be possible to get the zap guides. It may require some changes to the current sage program or a plugin to do it but it's still possible to get them without having to resort to xmltv to do it.

That's something that can't be done with tivo.

[nielm]

Originally Posted by Crazedz

Well you know that other free pvr's now have guide data you can get from zap2it ... without any cost.

It may require some changes to the current sage program or a plugin to do it but it's still possible to get them without having to resort to xmltv to do it.

The zap2it EPG plugin for Sage already exists and is used for Canadian listings...

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by Hector

The current version is not guaranteed free guide data. It may be free for now but they retain the right to change their mind at any time and start charging you for it (read your EULA its in your Sage directory). I'm sure you realize there is a big difference between that and a lifetime guarantee of free.

conisdering Tivo's financial problems and the fact that they are starting to support pop up ads which could only mean they are doomed to fail, I wouldn't put their lifetime EPG feature as big advantage when comparing it to SageTV. Not for once that I'm concerned that SageTV will drop the free EPG and start charging. So when considering between Tivo and SageTV, I say this is a non issue unless there are some evidence that indicates tehy will be charging. And its not just SageTV, all the other competing PVR softwares offer free EPG also.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by silkshadow

However, you are 100% correct. Tivo has the branding. Its like Intel. AMD's CPUs have almost always been as good (in some cases better) as Intel's and a bunch cheaper. However, there are still many people who will only buy Intel processors or computers with Intel processors.

But now AMD outsells Intel in the retail market

[mls]

I think those talking about Tivo's lifetime EPG are missing one fine point. It is only for the lifetime of the unit (not the user) and can not be transferred to another unit when it's time to replace one.

As with any computer with running hard drive, that lifetime is somewhere in the 2-5 year range (depending on usage). Because of this, it doesn't matter if you choose to pay by the month or pay the lump sum for the lifetime fee. Either way Tivo will still get about exactly the same amount of money from you, the unit will fail, and you'll end up paying all over again when you get another one.

So, unless you're into doing your own Tivo repair, their lifetime EPG is actually a rip off.

[Hector]

Well sure now you're evaluating the value proposition between them and expressing your opinion.

However your original point was that it's being negative to point out that there are differences.

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

conisdering Tivo's financial problems and the fact that they are starting to support pop up ads which could only mean they are doomed to fail, I wouldn't put their lifetime EPG feature as big advantage when comparing it to SageTV. Not for once that I'm concerned that SageTV will drop the free EPG and start charging. So when considering between Tivo and SageTV, I say this is a non issue unless there are some evidence that indicates tehy will be charging. And its not just SageTV, all the other competing PVR softwares offer free EPG also.

[Hector]

I don't think that's right.

Lifetime service $300.

OR

$13 x 12 mo = $156 per year (actually its $12.95).

2 years monthly $312

3 years monthly $468

5 years monthly $780

Mine by the way is almost 6 years old.

peace . . .

Originally Posted by mls

I think those talking about Tivo's lifetime EPG are missing one fine point. It is only for the lifetime of the unit (not the user) and can not be transferred to another unit when it's time to replace one.

As with any computer with running hard drive, that lifetime is somewhere in the 2-5 year range (depending on usage). Because of this, it doesn't matter if you choose to pay by the month or pay the lump sum for the lifetime fee. Either way Tivo will still get about exactly the same amount of money from you, the unit will fail, and you'll end up paying all over again when you get another one.

So, unless you're into doing your own Tivo repair, their lifetime EPG is actually a rip off.

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by Hector

Well sure now you're evaluating the value proposition between them and expressing your opinion.
However your original point was that it's being negative to point out that there are differences.

Like I said earlier, it's something that is a non issue and you pointed it out as a downside of SageTV for not promising lifetime guarantee on the EPG is being negative. I mean, nothing is absolute, Frey can take out the music feature if they want, or the DVD, pictures, etc. But I'm gonna sit here and worry what if they do unless they give me reason to worry. But just because Tivo charged you $300 for something that is free doesn't mean that SageTV will also. If it makes you feel better, you can send $300 to frey and ask them to give you lifetime EPG like Tivo, I'm sure they'll just shrud their shoulders and gladly do so. Or you can do nothing and not worry about it like the rest of us.

[Opus4]

Wow... I might have to consider renaming this thread to something like "Lifetime EPG fees? Tivo vs. SageTV".

- Andy

[Hector]

Thats incorrect. Tivo is overcharging but guide data is not free, someone has to pay for it.

I'm not even sure what you're talking about. Who said you should be worried? Who said Tivo ever charged me $300? And why you think anyone would send $300 to Frey so they could feel better is a question I don't even want answered.

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

Like I said earlier, it's something that is a non issue and you pointed it out as a downside of SageTV for not promising lifetime guarantee on the EPG is being negative. I mean, nothing is absolute, Frey can take out the music feature if they want, or the DVD, pictures, etc. But I'm gonna sit here and worry what if they do unless they give me reason to worry. But just because Tivo charged you $300 for something that is free doesn't mean that SageTV will also. If it makes you feel better, you can send $300 to frey and ask them to give you lifetime EPG like Tivo, I'm sure they'll just shrud their shoulders and gladly do so. Or you can do nothing and not worry about it like the rest of us.

[Hector]

Hey I've got an idea, lets really take this one for a spin.

Who is Mike Machado? I've never heard this name before. Someone who has been around or a new investor?

Company Contact(s): Dan Kardatzke, CEO Mike Machado, President

http://www.cesweb.org/attendees/dire...p?exhibid=8430

Originally Posted by Opus4

Wow... I might have to consider renaming this thread to something like "Lifetime EPG fees? Tivo vs. SageTV".

- Andy

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Wow... I might have to consider renaming this thread to something like "Lifetime EPG fees? Tivo vs. SageTV".

- Andy

No, rename it to "Hector's Rant!!!"

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by Hector

Hey I've got an idea, lets really take this one for a spin.

Who is Mike Machado? I've never heard this name before. Someone who has been around or a new investor?

Company Contact(s): Dan Kardatzke, CEO Mike Machado, President

http://www.cesweb.org/attendees/dire...p?exhibid=8430

So was that a question or a statement?

Seems like you answered your own question.

[Hector]

I'll agree to that if you agree to quit whining about it.

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

No, rename it to "Hector's Rant!!!"

[Hector]

A question with a guess based on no data other than an assertion based on an assumption.

Originally Posted by Cayars

So was that a question or a statement?

Seems like you answered your own question.

[mightyt]

I say rename it Studio Jr.

Same players, slightly different whine ...

Well ... It was good while it lasted ...

Hey Andy, How about a special forum section for complaints and whining so we can choose to participate or not??

It's getting so you never know ... a thread starts out with good intentions and then ends up ... Bla ... Bla ... Bla ... Yawn ...

I guess even this post could be put in that category ...