Considering a switch from Tivo, Hardware recommendations?

[abbott_m]

I've been using Tivo (3 of them currently running) for about 4 years and generally have good experience with the but the limitations of that relatively closed system has started to frustrate me.

In researching SageTv I've seen quite a few options but the list has kind of overwhealmed me. What I'm thinking is using 1 DTV feed and 1 Cable feed as inputs to a SageTv system. I'm planning on getting a new PC to run this system from Dell and while I've read the minimum system requirments I doubt that will give the performance I'm looking for.

So, the real question is, with the inputs I've got available what would be an ideal system and tuner combination to do this. I'm kind of thinking that this system would only have my 30" tv as the monitor but I'm also planning on wireless keyboard/mouse combo for using it as a computer (sometimes) and a remote to run the system for TV watching. I've also got a couple of stand alone DTV receivers that have the serial port on the back which I think is what's required for SageTv to interface.

Appreciate the feedback.

Mike

[Grasshopper]

Hi Mike,

You really don't need a powerful system for recording purposes, the cheapest you can find should work just fine as long as it has the stability to handle a couple of PCI cards for tuners. Where you want power is in playback -- specifically, you want a decent video card. Or an MVP.

Here's the crucial question: Do you have/can you run Cat5 LAN cable through your house? A decent Sage server box has substantial hard drive space and a couple or three tuner cards to tune shows -- and such a box tends to be big, ugly, and noisy. The beauty of Sage is in its client/server architecture. If I were starting from scratch I'd tuck a Sage server somewhere out of the way (office, closet) and use MVP's as clients at each TV.

[abbott_m]

I'm very familar with network technology (I sure hope so, that's what they pay me for) so that's not a problem. I'm not familar with what a MVP is. Also is memory something to be concerned about? I can easily get 512mb but was wondering if a 1gb upgrade is worthwhile.

[Grasshopper]

A MediaMVP is a device made by Hauppauge, the folks who make some of the best and most compatible tuner cards. Basically, it's a network device that will receive audio and video from your server and display it on a TV or push audio to a stereo system. Recently, a Sage front end was developed that lets the MediaMVP interface very elegantly with your server. The advantages of this device are that it's small, silent, and a very cheap way of getting good quality regular tv displayed. The limitations are that it's only stereo (no surround sound), that it won't play DVD's, and that it's not a PC, so no surfing from the couch with a wireless keyboard.

You might find that that latter limitation isn't such a big deal; unless your TV is an HDTV, many folks find that surfing on their TV is a less than satisfactory experience due to the low resolution of the TV.

If you go with this architecture, then your primary hardware needs will be 1 tuner card for each show you want to record simultaneously (3 should be plenty for most people) and 1 MVP for each TV you want to be able to watch on. Oh, and a whole lot of hard drive space. Half a gig of RAM is fine for a dedicated Sage box, you might want more if you plan to use your server as a regular PC as well.

See the top thread in this forum (sticky) for more on the MVP.

[abbott_m]

So if I understand everything correctly I can go with a decent system for the server (I'm only planning at the moment on a direct replacement of 1 tivo) that's got 1 or more tuner pci cards in it and a great video card which has either composit output or svideo. That output would then to to the tv but do I also need a good audio card as well or does the video card handle that output?

[Grasshopper]

You probably want a decent audio card as well, depending on a bunch of things (whether you plan to output directly to speakers or to an amplifier, whether the built-in audio is okay, etc).

[korben_dallas]

Abbott,

This is my opinion only, but I find the MVP too limited a solution for client access. Yes, a few hundred $ is less expensive than a PC in each room, but there are too many contraints. Plus you have a highly unsupported setup once you start using the MVPs and no upgrade path for future technologies, codecs, a/v connections, etc.

Wait until next week for the "announcement" regarding a Linux extender & Sage 3.0, then look at all your options.

[Toddly]

I got an MVP working in my house and I must say that I am quite pleased. If all you want to do is watch SDTV its seems a perfect replacement for a TIVO. That is all I want my system to do and I want it quiet as well.

[mdmint]

Plan to only replace one TIVO now fine, but build and plan to totally replace in the future. TIVO way to limiting for me! I'd recommend going separate dedicated Sage Server with multiple tuners, mega storage (my SageServer currently 4 PVR 250s tuners encoders [plus another PVR250 in main HTPC Client for 5 total usable to Server] and 1.5TB main storage RAID5 w/online spare plus 700GB video library storage in my main workstation RAID5). The server doesn't need good video or audio, 512MB plenty, 1Ghz+ CPU fine. Client you'll want to build for quiet, video output will depend what it's pushing but needs GPU power, audio you just need direct spdif output to your amp/receiver. A laptop HD (6GB+) ideal for HTPC. I use two in my main HTPC, one for Ghost backup or main. I went that way instead of RAID1 so if playing with Sage Client config's don't have to worry about screwing it up. Always Ghost it before changing or upgrading. Plus if main HD fails the 2nd HD is set as 3rd boot device in BIOS (1st CD, the the two HDs) Have fun!

[abbott_m]

I agree that tivo is way too limiting which is why i'm starting down this path. I'm going to be using an amp at least in my media room so that shouldn't be a problem. Initially I think I'm going to be running on a single computer for server/client (I think is is supported out of the box) but definately with plans to replace all the tivo's with sage client boxes.

So if I understand everthing so far, I need to size this server to perform both the client and server function (i.e. probably more than the eventual server will require). At a later date (after I pry the tivo out of my wife's hands) I can deploy clients as I see fit (with the appropriate client license on it).

Any flaws with this plan?

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by abbott_m

I agree that tivo is way too limiting which is why i'm starting down this path. I'm going to be using an amp at least in my media room so that shouldn't be a problem. Initially I think I'm going to be running on a single computer for server/client (I think is is supported out of the box) but definately with plans to replace all the tivo's with sage client boxes.

So if I understand everthing so far, I need to size this server to perform both the client and server function (i.e. probably more than the eventual server will require). At a later date (after I pry the tivo out of my wife's hands) I can deploy clients as I see fit (with the appropriate client license on it).
Any flaws with this plan?

The main possible glitch could be noise in media room. If you're planning on ample storage it'll require ample cooling equalling ample noise! Which is why I went separate Server in different room quiet Client in media room connected via copper gigabit.

[abbott_m]

I'm reading the manual and it kind of assumes that the client and server are on different boxes. Is this a requirement? If not is a seperate license for the client/server even after purchasing the server?

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by abbott_m

I'm reading the manual and it kind of assumes that the client and server are on different boxes. Is this a requirement? If not is a seperate license for the client/server even after purchasing the server?

When running Sage from a single box SageClient isn't needed at all. If Sage (main Sage program, often referred to as Sage Server) run as a Service when running Sage app runs "as a" Client. If not running as a Service, when running Sage app functions as both the core recording etc AND Sage Client interface, same main app.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by abbott_m

I'm reading the manual and it kind of assumes that the client and server are on different boxes. Is this a requirement? If not is a seperate license for the client/server even after purchasing the server?

The manual assumes the client & server are on different boxes because that's the way it is generally used.

SageTV itself can do all the recording & playback on one PC -- it is in direct control of the tuners in addition to being able to play content. You need one license for SageTV, since you only need 1 server.

SageTVClient will handle the playback on another PC, but cannot directly control a tuner on its own PC. (It can only control what gts recorded by talking to SageTV.) SageTVClient has nearly the exact same interface (except for a few server/client specific settings) as SageTV. You need a license for each client installed on separate PCs. Usually, you don't install a client on the server, but there is nothing saying you can't do so for some reason -- such as using it to drive MVPs.

- Andy

[korben_dallas]

There are 3 distinct flavors of Sage: SageTV, SageTV Client, and SageTV Recorder.

SageTV is the full version server with built-in client. That is what I use on my computer. Other computers are connected via the network and a SageTV Client, which gives them access to any tuners/capture devices on the server. Lastly, SageTV Recorder allows tuners/capture devices to be on any machine and be controlled by the server, but it has limited support for tuners/capture devices and recording over the network is not a good design unless you have CAT5.