Two-room networked system and PVR350 DVD playback issues

[IPFighter]

First, Merry Christmas to all. I hope you have a good holiday.

Second, I could use input from those more experience that I regarding my setup. I am afraid (after reading various previous posts) that I may need an exchange of hardware and/or software from Sage, but I thought that I should ping the knowledgeable masses first.

I aim to have a two-room setup as follows:

Room 1
• LCD TV
• DISH satellite receiver
• PVR box with a PVR150 and video out card to the LCD TV that will control the DISH satellite receiver using built-in IRBlaster via SageTV.

Room 2
• Projection TV
• Yamaha receiver with 5.1 channel sound
• DISH satellite receiver
• PVR box with a PVR350 and video out card to the LCD TV (S-Video from video card, NOT PVR350) that will control the DISH satellite receiver using UIRT via Sage Client and Sage Recorder.

The PVR boxes in both rooms are part of a shared home network; all drives, etc. are visible and accessible from each.

My goal was to be able to (1) independently watch, pause and record live TV from each room; (2) access and watch TV shows and movies previously recorded in either room on the systems in either room; and (3) access and watch previously ripped DVD (e.g., Lord of the Rings; Spiderman 2, etc., that I have purchased but put onto HD for each of playback), including with full menus, from either room.

I should say that I went with the PVR350 and Sage Client/Sage Recorder in Room 2 (rather than a duplicate setup as with Room 1) at Dan's suggestion. He said that I needed Sage Client/Recorder for Rooms 1-2 to be able to see each other's recordings. He then indicated that PVR150 was incompatible with SageTV, thus I needed PVR350.

I now have Room 1 set up and working fairly well. In Room 1 I can do (1), (2) and (3) great. I have been working on Room 2. I now have Sage Client setup and working and I can do (1) using the Room 1 DISH tuner (I understand that I will need to install Sage Recorder to be able to independently watch TV using the Room 2 DISH tuner) and (2) (although I am getting only video, no sound, but I that may be due to a cross wire thus far hooking my optical cable through my Yamaha receiver). However, while I can see the ripped DVDs in the Room 2 Sage Client, it gives me an error whenever I try to play them.

Thus my most immediate question: why can’t I play the ripped DVDs in Room 2? In reading the posts, I fear it is an inherent limitation with the PVR350. Is it true that the PVR350 (or Sage Client) cannot play these ripped DVDs? I can use PowerDVD (not through Sage Client) in Room 2 and access and play these DVDs, but I cannot do so through Sage Client. Does that mean that I need to switch back to the PVR150 (and thus to SageTV rather than the Sage Client and Sage Recorder combination)? Do I have any other options using my existing hardware? Or have I simply got a setting or two off? It does not make sense to me that a PVR350 limitation should be the problem when I am using a separate video card for my S-Video out (or is the problem with Sage Client?).

Any help on this particular question would be greatly appreciated. Or any more general comments regarding improvements to my setup.

Many thanks

[stanger89]

DVDs on client...

Yes, you can play DVDs on SageClient, I've done it. However, you can't, for all practical purposes play DVDs through the 350. There are ways (you can search), but not necessarily easy or ideal.

That said, it sounds like you have all HDTVs, is that correct? If so, my advice would be to drop the 350 output and S-Video altogether (you can still use the 350 for recording). You'd be better off, IMO, going with Component/VGA/DVI to your HDTVs.

[mdmint]

If I understand your setup correctly you're not using the 350 for vid out. Since you're not using the 350 for video output no reason to have it at all. I use a PVR250 in my Client (it to is supported by Recorder). While Frey no longer sells them other places do, for less than a 350, and don't have the possbile video output conflicts. IMO the 350 should never be used if it's vid out isn't being use. Just asking for more complications.

[mls]

You may need to set up the Import folder for the ripped DVD files as a UNC path
\\Computer_Name\Shared_Folder

I had to do that to get my DVD files to play on the client.

Also check the SageTV.properties file on the server, and the SageTVClient.properties file on the client and see if ",.ts" is in the line for the file extensions. Might need to also add ",.vob".

The exact lines in those files is slightly different between v2.0 and v2.1, but if you look thru the files you'll find were it lists the other extensions like .mpg,.jpg etc.

Hope that helps. Merry Chirstmas!

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mls

Also check the SageTV.properties file on the server, and the SageTVClient.properties file on the client and see if ",.ts" is in the line for the file extensions. Might need to also add ",.vob".

Shouldn't need to edit the properties file at all for DVDs, Sage detects them natively. FWIW, .ts is for HD transport streams, and throwing .vob in there might confuse things since it would import the "DVD" (ifo/bup/vob/folder structure) and the individual .vobs.

[mls]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Shouldn't need to edit the properties file at all for DVDs, Sage detects them natively.

For playing real DVD's yes, but not all versions of SageTV understood "ripped" DVD files. So, not knowing for sure which version, I just added in the other items that were mentioned in other older posts about getting SageTV to play ripped DVD files.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by mls

For playing real DVD's yes, but not all versions of SageTV understood "ripped" DVD files. So, not knowing for sure which version, I just added in the other items that were mentioned in other older posts about getting SageTV to play ripped DVD files.

Since he is asking about setting things up, I would think he has a fairly recent version, and v2.0 & v2.1 both play ripped DVDs natively, at least using the layout shown in Appendix I of the manual.

Oh -- and it wasn't removed from the v2.2 beta.

BTW: I wonder what was actually said about the 150 vs. 350, since the 150 is listed on the SageTV System Requirements page as a supported tuner, unless there was something about that client PC that made it not feasible to use it. Also, you don't even need a tuner in the client PC -- you could connect all tuners to the server & still watch shows on the client. That way, you don't have to have the client on in order for recordings to be active on both tuners. On the other hand, you may want a tuner on the client to provide remote capability, unless you simply use a USB-UIRT & some other remote on that PC.

- Andy

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by Opus4

BTW: I wonder what was actually said about the 150 vs. 350, since the 150 is listed on the SageTV System Requirements page as a supported tuner, unless there was something about that client PC that made it not feasible to use it. - Andy

True, PVR150 supported tuner under SageTV, however PVR150 not supported by Recorder and hence not usable to SageTV Networked mode.

From SageTV requirements: TV Tuner Card: Installed TV Tuner/MPEG-2 Encoding Card or USB device (Please note: The PVR-150, PVR-500, Plextor ConvertX, UltraTV PCI 500/550 and ProVideo 358T are not supported in SageTV Recorder and therefore cannot be used as networked encoders)
http://www.sage.tv/requirements.html?sageSub=tv

[Opus4]

Thanks for pointing that out! Even though I knew this was on the client, I forgot we were talking about using SageTV Recorder with it. And, you couldn't use two 150s on the server & use both of their IR blasters, since you can only use 1 IR blaster at a time. The USB-UIRT could be used to control both converters on 1 PC, but then you are still in need of a remote on the 2nd PC.

- Andy

[IPFighter]

Thank you all for your attention to this issue.

Over the weekend I have still not been able to get my Sage Client to playback ripped DVD's located elsewhere on my networked system. It gives me this error every time:

There was a Playback Error in playback Details: Sage.PlaybackException: ERROR (-3,0x80070057): There was a problem accessing the filesystem for playback

I have tried every combination of setup option I can think of to no avail.

Because I am not using the PVR350 TV out, but rather an S-Video out from a separate video card, I believe it safe to say that the PVR350 is not causing this problem. Also, because I am using the same DVD decoder (Cyberlink PowerDVD) on both my Room 1 SageTV machine (which plays back the ripped DVDs fine) and my Room 2 Sage Client machine (which gives me the above error), I guess that is not my problem either. I am left to conclude that it must be a problem with the Sage Client. I've asked Sage support but off hand can anyone decrypt the error message or propose a solution?

In part because of my struggles as noted above, I am still not satisfied with the system Dan recommended because of the interface for Sage Recorder. I was expecting an interface identical to SageTV (and Sage Client) when playing, pausing and recording live TV. But Sage Recorder appears very different (unless I am missing a plugin option that would retain the SageTV interface). (I am having enough trouble getting my wife used to the SageTV interface in Room 1 (she is used to DISH PVR) and do not think forcing yet another interface on her in Room 2 would be wise.....)

The difference is such that I may need to exchange the Sage Client/Recorder combo in Room 2 with another instance of SageTV, and just run it (probably on another PVR150) on my Room 2 machine. As I see it, while this system would sacrafice the ability to view recorded TV with tags on either machine, it would allow me to (1) separately play, pause and record shows in each room using each room's separate DISH receiver; I would be able to see and play TV recorded in each room from the other room, albeit without tag info; (2) access and play previously recorded .mpeg movies from either room regardless of where they are stored on my network; and (3) access and play ripped DVDs.

I see my tradeoff being losing the tags on shows recorded on each separate SageTV system versus being able to switch to the simpler PVR150 (over the PVR350), use the standard interface in SageTV and be able to access and play ripped DVDs (which thus far I cannot do with Sage Client).

Am I missing anything in this analysis?

Many thanks

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by IPFighter

Thank you all for your attention to this issue.

Over the weekend I have still not been able to get my Sage Client to playback ripped DVD's located elsewhere on my networked system. It gives me this error every time:

There was a Playback Error in playback Details: Sage.PlaybackException: ERROR (-3,0x80070057): There was a problem accessing the filesystem for playback

I have tried every combination of setup option I can think of to no avail.

It sounds like you have a path problem. Are the DVDs accessable via the EXACT same path on both PCs?
Like
\\Computer\Directory\DVD
or
Z:\Computer\Directory\DVD
from both computers.

You might want to take a look at the manual, I believe Andy put a section in there about DVD rips.

In part because of my struggles as noted above, I am still not satisfied with the system Dan recommended because of the interface for Sage Recorder. I was expecting an interface identical to SageTV (and Sage Client) when playing, pausing and recording live TV. But Sage Recorder appears very different (unless I am missing a plugin option that would retain the SageTV interface). (I am having enough trouble getting my wife used to the SageTV interface in Room 1 (she is used to DISH PVR) and do not think forcing yet another interface on her in Room 2 would be wise.....)

I think you misunderstand the purpose of SageRecorder, in your system (after initial setup) you should never have to interact with it directly, the SageTV server will control the card in the remote PC via SR. To you (the user) it will be just like you have another tuner in the server.

You'll want to look at this:
http://www.sage.tv/2_papers/NetworkEncoderSetup.txt

[IPFighter]

Thank you for the post. A few more questions.

On the DVD issue, it was my understanding that using the Sage Client, it is in fact accessing the data through SageTV on my networked system in Room 1. Given that that path is correct (and DVDs play fine on it), I assumed that Sage Client would follow the same path with the same result. In fact, for non-DVD (.vob) files, e.g., .mpeg files, it works fine. My path structure for both file types is the same, for example:

F:\SciFi\LotR\Return of the King\VIDEO_TS (.vob structure in here)

for the DVD directory and

F:\SciFi\Star Trek\First Contact (.mpeg structure in here)

Where F is a mapped network drive visible to both the Room 1 and Room 2 machines.

Are you suggesting that I need to change Sage Client path configurations somehow for it to see the DVD structures even though I didn't need to change anything for Sage Client to see the .mpeg structures?

On the Sage Recorder issue I truly hope that I misunderstand its application. It would be my goal to be able to use Sage Client in Room 2 to (1) access and play all recorded TV, movies and ripped DVDs via SageTV in Room 1 AND to control the second DISH receiver in Room 2 (independent of what anyone is watching or recording using SageTV and the DISH receiver in Room 1) to watch, pause and record TV using the Sage Client interface, which looks the same as the SageTV interface. Thus, at the end of the day, I would be able to move to either room, start up SageTV or Sage Client, and watch, pause and record different shows through each separate DISH receiver or, if I want, access saved TV, movies or ripped DVDs located on any networked drive.

Can I do this by following the link instructions you provided? The only thing not clear to me from those instructions is whether at the end of the day I would be able to use the Sage Client interface exclusively (not have to go through the Sage Recorder interface) to control the Room 2 DISH receiver (using UIRT).

Thanks

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by IPFighter

On the DVD issue, it was my understanding that using the Sage Client, it is in fact accessing the data through SageTV on my networked system in Room 1. Given that that path is correct (and DVDs play fine on it), I assumed that Sage Client would follow the same path with the same result. In fact, for non-DVD (.vob) files, e.g., .mpeg files, it works fine. My path structure for both file types is the same, for example:

F:\SciFi\LotR\Return of the King\VIDEO_TS (.vob structure in here)

for the DVD directory and

F:\SciFi\Star Trek\First Contact (.mpeg structure in here)

Where F is a mapped network drive visible to both the Room 1 and Room 2 machines.

Are you suggesting that I need to change Sage Client path configurations somehow for it to see the DVD structures even though I didn't need to change anything for Sage Client to see the .mpeg structures?

It might be worth a shot to try adding the library dir as a UNC path to see if it makes any difference. Most stuff should be streamed through SageTV -> SageTVClient, but perhaps DVD playback differs. (I haven't tried DVD playback over my network.)

I don't remember if you said anything about using service mode, but if you are, be sure to have the service log in as a user w/a password in order for it to access UNC paths. (See the service mode info around p. 14 in teh v2.1 manual.)

On the Sage Recorder issue I truly hope that I misunderstand its application. It would be my goal to be able to use Sage Client in Room 2 to (1) access and play all recorded TV, movies and ripped DVDs via SageTV in Room 1 AND to control the second DISH receiver in Room 2 (independent of what anyone is watching or recording using SageTV and the DISH receiver in Room 1) to watch, pause and record TV using the Sage Client interface, which looks the same as the SageTV interface.

Can I do this by following the link instructions you provided? The only thing not clear to me from those instructions is whether at the end of the day I would be able to use the Sage Client interface exclusively (not have to go through the Sage Recorder interface) to control the Room 2 DISH receiver (using UIRT).

I don't have SageTVRecorder, but unless I'm wrong... my understanding is that it should be set up such that SageTV sees it as a network encoder & then you simply use the SageTV or SageTVClient interface as you would if all tuners happened to be on the server. i.e.: you shouldn't have to use SageTVRecorder for playback, etc.

- Andy