Utterly confused (Additional Quality Settings)

[FreeBSD4me]

Originally Posted by mls

Although technically inaccurate, below is how Frey/Hauppauge appear to have calculated GB per hour. Reason it's inaccurate is because the audio channel(s) bitrate should also be included and VBR will vary the the total amount. Anyway, basically it works out like this...

bitrate (in bits per second) divided by 8 (to get Bytes per second) times 60 seconds (to get Bytes per minute) times 60 minutes (to get Bytes per hour). The formula then is:

[bitrate / 8] x 60 x 60 = GB per hour

This can be further reduced to:

[bitrate / 8] x 3600 = GB per hour

As an example, the "DVD Extra Long Play ~ 1.8GB per hour" setting works out like this:

[4000000 / 8] x 3600 = 1800000000 or 1.8GB per hour

I hope this wasn't too confusing to follow.

Thanks so much. That does help. For me, it’d be easier, and because of the large files we’re dealing with here if everything could be stated in Mbps or Gigs by default, but this is still the standard in the computer industry overall, so it would seem. Even Kbps wouldn’t be too bad, but bytes is something I think of back in the days of the 9600 bps modem for example. Anyway, it’s a complaint indicative of the mathematically inept I suppose --that would be me

Appreciate the time MLS

D.

[FreeBSD4me]

Originally Posted by TiltRod

Try these settings in the attachment. However, the only true way to know the right sizes is to record something at each quality and change the numbers later.

-D

You people are too kind. I’m going to purchase Sage in the next day or so, but now I almost feel guilty that I cannot somehow repay the forum. I know that sounds strange, but of all the forums I’ve participated in, I’ve never seen so many people willing to help out, and they don’t leave you hanging for several days either. If there are any other industry publications considering a review of STV, I do hope they make mention of this community, as it’s one of the best things the product has going for it!

Thanks,

Dave

[mls]

Originally Posted by FreeBSD4me

Even Kbps wouldn’t be too bad, but bytes is something I think of back in the days of the 9600 bps modem for example. Anyway, it’s a complaint indicative of the mathematically inept I suppose --that would be me

Just thought I'd toss in a couple other side notes to clearify a few things.

The notation for bits should be a small "b", while for Bytes it should be a capitol "B". Not everbody does this, so there are times things can become confusing.

So, in your comment about a 9600 bps modem, that references 9600 bits per second (not Bytes as you seem to implied).

Transfer speeds for things like modems, Ethernet adaptors, and hard drives are normally giving in bits per second. However, file sizes are in Bytes.

Since it is handy to know roughly how much file (disk) space would be required for a video recording we often talk about (Mega or Giga) Bytes per hour (even though internally everything else is usually referenced to in bits).

A bit is the smallest size of data (a single on or off value). A Byte is 8 bits. There are other older terms not used very often now anymore such as a Word which is half a Byte, or 4 bits.

You'll get used to all of the terms in time like I have after 20 years of messing with computers

[kny3twalker]

you did get this worked out right?
I really felt there were not enough choices and want some variable rate choices as well
I tried to follow the default qualities format with names and such (I hope my names were ok)
I added the text file as well on the FAQ to try to make it easier
maybe I should just reinstall install SageTV and add the new qualities
but then people would have to add the qualities when they first install

if you want a certain quality
I would be happy to type it up for you

Robert

[FreeBSD4me]

Originally Posted by mls

So, in your comment about a 9600 bps modem, that references 9600 bits per second (not Bytes as you seem to implied).

*Chuckle* Yes, that was a blunder I realized later, but somehow didn’t get back to editing the message. It’s pretty funny that I manage 4 of my own servers, and love to hack within the Unix world –even the Vbulliten forum for example, which I run a heavily modified version of, yet I still get stumped on bits and bytes? Funny stuff

Thanks MLS,

Dave

[FreeBSD4me]

Originally Posted by kny3twalker

you did get this worked out right?
I really felt there were not enough choices and want some variable rate choices as well
I tried to follow the default qualities format with names and such (I hope my names were ok)
I added the text file as well on the FAQ to try to make it easier
maybe I should just reinstall install SageTV and add the new qualities
but then people would have to add the qualities when they first install

if you want a certain quality
I would be happy to type it up for you

Robert

Hey Rob, sorry for the delayed reply, but I was never notified of the new responses. It’s probably because I viewed the ‘last posted message’ by refreshing my browser, instead of actually returning to the site, which would have set a new cookie session. As a result, (or at least in most cases), VB assumes that you haven’t read the message yet, and will not send any further notifications until you do.

As for the qualities, excellent work, and again, the time you took to do that was very much appreciated. So, here’s where I’m at with my testing: After two weeks of tweaking, I’m running the following config:

Decoder: Intervideo default decoder
Renderer: Overlay
DXVA: Interlacing –Bob and Weave
Bitrate: 4.5 Gigs per hour

Yes, my message is a little verbose, but in case you’re interested, here’s a small review of my test results thus far:

So far, the above settings yield the closest thing I’m going to get to the actual raw feed. Still though, dark scenes still appear to be having a few problems, in that sometimes you don’t see the details of a black/ dark background scene –it just sort of washes out in a dull black. There’s still a little more room for adjustment here, but you have to be careful, as it’s easy to washout normal ‘brighter’ scenes.

Now, you’re probably wondering why I’m not using the Ndvd encoder. Well.. I played around with this for days, but could not get it to look quite right, however I think it’s really more to do with personal viewing preference. You see, I find that Ndvd has a tendency to smoooooooth everything out too much. With Intervideo, you get what looks to be a “real time rendering look” and most notably a pastel look on faces when people move around too fast. Sort of looks like you can see the system actually trying to stabilize the resolution, until they’re still again. Does that sound right? Not sure how else to explain it, but I’m sure you know what I mean.

Does Ndvd correct this? Well, yes, sort of. It seems to mask the graininess on fast motion by (what looks to be) smoothing everything out. The problem with this is that you lose clarity and sharpness. As a result, I find myself really pushing the limits of the “image sharpness” setting trying to compensate. Moving images in ‘darker scenes’ seem to get lost in the wash, as it looks like it’s trying to mask the grainyness you’d typically see with Intervideo. With this decoder, I find myself straining my eyes to look for detail.

This is likely more of a problem with me and my extreme fussyness in trying to match the PVR to the precise performance of the raw signal. For the most part (with both decoders), the only real deficiency I find myself challenging is the ability to get rid of that ----what looks to be the system trying to render faces or skin colors when they move too fast. To the average untrained eye, I don’t even think they’d notice, but to me, I tend to notice it a lot more. Here are the shows that work best for testing:

NYPD blue: Excellent for testing a multitude of dark scenes with fast camera sweeps. If your skin colors are going to distort on movement, this is where you’ll see it.

CSI Vegas: Excellent for testing on very dark scenes. In this show, you can test for how well background information shows up in a dark room.

CNN and MSNBC. Both have varying dynamic range, but are excellent for tuning colors and daytime/ bright scenes.

One note: On a number of programs such as CSI, Law & Order, etc, they’re using some sort of digital smoothing effect, (not sure how to explain it), so this can throw you off at times. While running in “raw video mode”, it’s not that noticeable, but this seems to confuse the decoder at times. As a result, sometimes you’re not sure it it’s the decoder, or the “altered effects” the show is sending to the decoder. Thing is, there’s so much compression going on, it’s easy to yield a great picture on bright scenes, but the true test is how it handles high motion, or darker scenes.

All in all, I’m quite happy with STV and the PVR 250. I wish there were more decoders I could test drive, but the selection of them seems to be fairly sparse. I tried many searches on Google, but all you get is a confusing pile of everything but the kitchen sink. I was hoping to find a simple list of decoders to trial test, but no luck. Once again… I’m quite happy with the product, as well as all the help you people have provided.

Thanks again,

Dave