Utterly confused (Additional Quality Settings)

[FreeBSD4me]

Hi all.

I’m totally lost on the instructions provided for adding quality settings. In the FAQ, it says to “add the following lines” to the Sage Properties File, however does not indicate exactly where to do so. So, I tried adding those settings right after the Sage default ones. Start Sage back up, and go to quality settings, but the new ones are not appearing.

Then I tried again by placing them all at the bottom of the file –still nothing. Then I tried literally replacing the Sage defaults with the new one, but again nothing. All that continues to appear are the default settings. Does anyone know exactly where these are supposed to go, and where they’re supposed to show up?

Many thanks.

[TiltRod]

the location of the addition doesn't matter, however the format does. i.e. proper use of the escape character "\". Also, make sure that the python encoder name matches the quality line name reference.

if you like, add the new properties to the end of your sage.properties file and PM me for verification. I may be able to see what is going wrong.

-D

[TiltRod]

FreeBSD4me,

Okay, found your problem.

(1) Remove the space from the mmc/python2_encoding lines at the peakvideobitrate. "75000 00" should be "7500000".

(2) Also remove the spaces from the seeker/recording_qualities lines "Best-VariableRate=Best - Variable Rate,384,48000,7500000" should be "Best-VariableRate=Best-VariableRate,384,48000,7500000".

I tested this and it works. Apply same procedures to each custom setting.

Hope that this helps. Happy encoding.

-D

[Opus4]

You can use spaces in the names, but if they were copied directly from the forum, the format may get changed a bit. The below lines work for me, but they don't get formatted correctly on 1 line even when I use any forum format tags.

mmc/python2_encoding/Best\ -\ Variable\ Rate=videobitrate\=6000000|width\=720|height\=480|audiobitrate\=384|vbr\=1|peakvideobitrate\=9000000

seeker/recording_qualities/Best\ -\ Variable\ Rate=Best - Variable Rate,384,48000,9000000

Edit: these settings were modified from those in the FAQ.

- Andy

[TiltRod]

Opus4,

I agree with you. I just figured FreeBSD4me would prefer the quickest method and avoid keeping track of escape characters. Ultimately it's his choice. I personally, like spaces and use them in all my custom qualities so the options list in sage looks better.

I, also like to put special characters at the beginning of the list name, so my qualities show up first in the options menu.

seeker/recording_qualities/\!Best-VariableRate=Best-VariableRate,384,48000,7500000

[Opus4]

OK -- I just wanted to clarify that names could be in the name of the setting.

I don't claim to know all these rules, though -- my settings were pretty much copied from that FAQ & then modified for my preferences, but I don't really know where I _have_ to have backslashes for example. As you can see, our lines differ in that regard; I just left them the way I found them since I didn't feel like experimenting to fix what already seemed to be working.

- Andy

[FreeBSD4me]

Thanks for the replies.

I don’t think the 75000 00 appeared correctly due to the formatting of the PM. The text file here ‘is’ displaying the correct value, which is 7500000, or at least how I’m seeing it. The spaces in “Best-VariableRate=Best-VariableRate,384,48000,7500000” “were” present, so I fixed those. It still doesn’t work, which leads me to believe I’m still messing something up here. I included my properties file as an attachment in this message, so hopefully the original formatting will stay intact. If you someone could look at it, I’d appreciate it.

Thanks,

Dave

[Opus4]

You did edit your properties file while SageTV was closed (not just sleeping), right? I don't remember whether it matters if the lines are after the "zzz=true" line at the end.

About the only differences between your lines & mine are the backslashes before the equal signs after the setting name (see my post, above).

- Andy

[FreeBSD4me]

Ok, well, I’m not having any luck. I do appreciate the help. I'll just wait until Sage comes out with a way that may be a little easier to adjust/ switch bit rates through the interface. For now, I’ll just work with what’s available.

Thanks,

Dave

[TiltRod]

FreeBSD4me,

You still need to remove the space betwee "Variable" and "Rate" in your seeker lines that should fix the problem.

And to reemphasize that sage must be shut down when making the changes.

-D

Actually in the interest of time, try using this attachment. I edited the custom quality lines myself. I changed the naming convention a bit to illustrate the relationship better, as well as make it simpler. Everything else is the same, and worked on my system.

Give it a try and tell me what happens

[Opus4]

Oh yeah -- I missed those extra spaces making the names different between the python & seeker lines... glad you noticed it.

- Andy

[FreeBSD4me]

Originally Posted by TiltRod

FreeBSD4me,

You still need to remove the space betwee "Variable" and "Rate" in your seeker lines that should fix the problem.

And to reemphasize that sage must be shut down when making the changes.

-D

Actually in the interest of time, try using this attachment. I edited the custom quality lines myself. I changed the naming convention a bit to illustrate the relationship better, as well as make it simpler. Everything else is the same, and worked on my system.

Give it a try and tell me what happens

Hey, thanks man.

The system is recording a couple of shows until 11:00. After that, I’m going to hurry on in there and try these out Oh, and yes, I ‘always’ shut Sage down after making changes –even in cases where it says you don’t have to. I'll let you know what happens.

Really appreciate it!

Dave

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by FreeBSD4me

Oh, and yes, I ‘always’ shut Sage down after making changes

I realize that might have been a typo, but just in case it wasn't... shut down SageTV before editing the properties file, or your changes will get overwritten when you exit SageTV.

- Andy

[FreeBSD4me]

Originally Posted by Opus4

I realize that might have been a typo, but just in case it wasn't... shut down SageTV before editing the properties file, or your changes will get overwritten when you exit SageTV.

- Andy

Yep, that's exactly what I meant. I never edit any fille (if I can help it), that's loaded into memory.

D.

[mls]

Originally Posted by Opus4

You did edit your properties file while SageTV was closed (not just sleeping), right? I don't remember whether it matters if the lines are after the "zzz=true" line at the end.

I don't know what it does with lines after the zzz, but if I accidently put a line in somewhere else out of alphabetical order SageTV seems to move it around by itself to the correct position. Had that happen twice now and it took me a minute to figure out what happenned to the line I thought I had added.

About the only differences between your lines & mine are the backslashes before the equal signs after the setting name (see my post, above).

On mine, if I leave out the backslashes before certain characters SageTV seems to add them in by itself. It may not always do that, but it did add in the backslash before the equals in all of my custom recording lines.

[FreeBSD4me]

Excellent. All of them are showing up.

I know I’m being a pain, but could I request one small favor? When I look at the new quality settings in STV, a number of them do not display the GB per hour they’ll consume –they just display something like Fair-VariableRate. My math and understanding of how to calculate the GB per hour rates is somewhat lacking, so would someone mind filling in the GB per hour blanks for me here?

seeker/recording_qualities/Best-VariableRate=BestVBR,384,48000,7500000
seeker/recording_qualities/Fair-VariableRate=FairVBR,384,48000,3000000
seeker/recording_qualities/Good-VariableRate=GoodVBR,384,48000,4500000
seeker/recording_qualities/Great-VariableRate=GreatVBR,384,48000,6000000
seeker/recording_qualities/HighestQuality-4.25GBperhr=HQ4PT25CBR,384,48000,9500000
seeker/recording_qualities/HighestQuality-VariableRate=HQVBR,384,48000,9000000
seeker/recording_qualities/MPEG2MaxQuality-VariableRate=MPEG2MaxQualVBR,384,48000,12575000

For some reason, even the 4.25 Gig per hour rating is not showing up in the quality settings screen. I assume that if I alter the above lines, then I must make those same changes to the mmc/python2_encoding lines as well in my properties file?

Finally, if it’s not asking too much, (and again forgive my ignorance), could someone please provide a brief explanation of what (for example), 384,48000,7500000 actually mean? What part of the picture quality does each one affect? For example, does the adjusting of one of them affect how much graineness, (no such real word) appears in video with higher motion, etc?

I know how silly these questions may sound, but if I knew how each one affected performance, then I’d know what I was actually doing, and what to look for when messing with each one. If it would take too long to explain here, no problem –maybe at some point in the future, someone could explain this in the FAQ, or maybe a detailed explanation, which explains each one has been posted here already?

Many thanks again,

Dave

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by FreeBSD4me

if it’s not asking too much could someone please provide a brief explanation of what (for example), 384,48000,7500000 actually mean?

The FAQ entry you mentioned in the first post contains the link to the following document: Hauppauge Cards & Recording Quality. That document explains the format for the custom quality settings for Hauppauge cards.

- Andy

[FreeBSD4me]

Ahh, that makes it a little easier to understand. I still wish I know what the other settings do, or how they affect performance. For example, gopsize or inversetelecine, or the dnrtemporalmultfactor, etc. I know that if I searched long enough, I may find these on google, but just the same, a laymen’s terms explanation of what these actually do, and an example blurb of when to utilize them would be a great help for those of us that like to get our hands dirty under the hood. I know I could simply experiment with them, but without knowing what it is I should be looking for (in the resulting video), it could take some time to figure out.

Anyway… I’m not complaining; I’m enjoying this very much, and suppose a little overanxious in understanding the full scope of what these many settings are capable of achieving.

Thanks for the help Andy,

Dave

[TiltRod]

Try these settings in the attachment. However, the only true way to know the right sizes is to record something at each quality and change the numbers later.

-D

[mls]

Originally Posted by FreeBSD4me

My math and understanding of how to calculate the GB per hour rates is somewhat lacking, so would someone mind filling in the GB per hour blanks for me here?

Although technically inaccurate, below is how Frey/Hauppauge appear to have calculated GB per hour. Reason it's inaccurate is because the audio channel(s) bitrate should also be included and VBR will vary the the total amount. Anyway, basically it works out like this...

bitrate (in bits per second) divided by 8 (to get Bytes per second) times 60 seconds (to get Bytes per minute) times 60 minutes (to get Bytes per hour). The formula then is:

[bitrate / 8] x 60 x 60 = GB per hour

This can be further reduced to:

[bitrate / 8] x 3600 = GB per hour

As an example, the "DVD Extra Long Play ~ 1.8GB per hour" setting works out like this:

[4000000 / 8] x 3600 = 1800000000 or 1.8GB per hour

I hope this wasn't too confusing to follow.