PVR-350 or PVR-250/250MCE and good video card?

[Brent94Z]

Hello!

I've been reading and getting some conflicting opinions. Some opinions may have been based on old drivers too so would like to see some current views

I'm in the process of gathering components to build my HTPC. I'm at the very beginning stages (basically just bought a few hard drives!) so can pretty much do whatever you guys recommend!

I've been reading that the PVR-350 cards are good and bad in that the output won't output like a DVD that is played from the DVD drive. Is that correct? Some are saying that the PVR-350 output is good but is limited to just what has been previously recorded and 'live' cable viewing. But, with the PVR-350, I could do onscreen menu viewing but can't with a PVR-250?

I realize that it will be considerably more expensive to buy a PVR-250 and a good video card as compared to a PVR-350 stand alone. I can spend the extra bucks if it is the right thing to do but after reading and doing a lot of searching, I'm having trouble determining, for me, what the right thing is.

What I'm primarily going to use my HTPC for is recording cable shows and using SageTV for watching live TV so I can have access to the on screen menu. I don't have digital cable or satellite and would really like a menu I can just point and click to watch a program I'll might watch a DVD from the HTPC but I do have a separate DVD player that could be used.

What I'm wondering then is what would be the big differences over using a crappy video card and the PVR-350 vs using a really good video card and the PVR-250/250MCE (not sure which 250 I'd get yet)?

Also, I see mention of 9600 and 9800 video cards but when trying to look up info on those, I see several different models, etc. and I'm a bit confused as to which would be best for me. Can you also maybe point me in the right direction to just what video card would be best for outputting to a Integra DTR-7.4 receiver (s-video or component) and being played on both a standard 4:3 62" rear projection and also a 110" InFocus projector... both being fed from the DTR-7.4.

I'd also like to MAYBE put in a 2nd capture card and I've read of some conflicts with the PVR-350/250 being used together in the same machine. However, reading more current posts, I think this has been completely resolved, right?

Mainly though, I'd like the best possible combination for the above even if it means spending like $200 more to get a separate video card over just a PVR-350... if that's the route I should take.

Thanks!!!

[stanger89]

Originally posted by Brent94Z
Hello!

I've been reading and getting some conflicting opinions. Some opinions may have been based on old drivers too so would like to see some current views

I'm in the process of gathering components to build my HTPC. I'm at the very beginning stages (basically just bought a few hard drives!) so can pretty much do whatever you guys recommend!

I've been reading that the PVR-350 cards are good and bad in that the output won't output like a DVD that is played from the DVD drive. Is that correct? Some are saying that the PVR-350 output is good but is limited to just what has been previously recorded and 'live' cable viewing. But, with the PVR-350, I could do onscreen menu viewing but can't with a PVR-250?

The 350 is a niche product IMO, only suited to those driving an SDTV, you can do a search if you want an explanation of why.

The 350 has it's own dedicated video out, and yes you can view the menues/OSD on that output. The 250 has no output so you can't view anything with it alone, with a 250 you view everything via your video card.

I realize that it will be considerably more expensive to buy a PVR-250 and a good video card as compared to a PVR-350 stand alone. I can spend the extra bucks if it is the right thing to do but after reading and doing a lot of searching, I'm having trouble determining, for me, what the right thing is.

Get the 250 and video card, I'll explain below.

What I'm primarily going to use my HTPC for is recording cable shows and using SageTV for watching live TV so I can have access to the on screen menu. I don't have digital cable or satellite and would really like a menu I can just point and click to watch a program I'll might watch a DVD from the HTPC but I do have a separate DVD player that could be used.

You'll want to view DVDs on your HTPC, see below.

What I'm wondering then is what would be the big differences over using a crappy video card and the PVR-350 vs using a really good video card and the PVR-250/250MCE (not sure which 250 I'd get yet)?

Almost there

Also, I see mention of 9600 and 9800 video cards but when trying to look up info on those, I see several different models, etc. and I'm a bit confused as to which would be best for me. Can you also maybe point me in the right direction to just what video card would be best for outputting to a Integra DTR-7.4 receiver (s-video or component) and being played on both a standard 4:3 62" rear projection and also a 110" InFocus projector... both being fed from the DTR-7.4.

This here is the single most important paragraph. You're actually one of the easiest recommendations I've seen. Get the good video card and the 250. The reason, you have a projector:

• It will be way easier/more stable than a 350
• It will give you better PQ
• It will give you more flexibility

I'd also like to MAYBE put in a 2nd capture card and I've read of some conflicts with the PVR-350/250 being used together in the same machine. However, reading more current posts, I think this has been completely resolved, right?

AFIAK, they're resolved.

Mainly though, I'd like the best possible combination for the above even if it means spending like $200 more to get a separate video card over just a PVR-350... if that's the route I should take.

Thanks!!!

Actually there's one more thing you may want to consider, getting a 350 and a good video card. The video card will be essential to getting good PQ on your PJ. You could then use the 350's output for maximum PQ on your SD RPTV (it's not HD right?).

I'm assuming that InFocus has a DVI or VGA input? If so you really will want to use that, by going component you're just going to complicate things. Component output on PC video cards is a tricky matter, involving very limited resolution support or expensive transcoders.

My advice to you would be:
A Geforce FX 5900 XT via DVI/VGA directly to the PJ.
And either:
S-Video from the card to your RPTV
or
S-Video from a 350 to your RPTV

I think I'll leave it there, let me know what questions you have and I'll do my best to answer them.

Oh, sounds like you've got a nice setup there, does that DTR use digital amplification? I know the DTA-9.4 amp is digital, just curious if the RX is also.

[Brent94Z]

Thanks, stanger89! But, lots of acroynms in there for a new guy. LOL! I've figured out some but having trouble with others

SDTV = standard definition TV
OSD = on screen display
PQ = picture quality???
SD RPTV = standard definition rear projection TV???
PJ = projector???

Just want to make sure I got those right so I don't have any misconceptions. hahahaa

The 350 has it's own dedicated video out, and yes you can view the menues/OSD on that output. The 250 has no output so you can't view anything with it alone, with a 250 you view everything via your video card.

Does this mean that there is no difference with the OSD between the PVR-350 and PVR-250/video card with TV out? I thought I had read here somewhere that the PVR-350 did something "extra" here. I've been reading a lot so could just be confused.

Get the 250 and video card, I'll explain below.

Is that a typo? Below you talk about getting the 350 and a good video card... not the 250???

Ahh... I just figured out that I think you were originally going with having me get a 250 and good video card but then also presented reasons why a 350 and good video card might also be useful

This here is the single most important paragraph. You're actually one of the easiest recommendations I've seen. Get the good video card and the 250. The reason, you have a projector:

It will be way easier/more stable than a 350

It will give you better PQ

It will give you more flexibility

Is the stability only an issue with the Intel chipsets? That is a concern because that is what I was looking at for a motherboard setup

Can you elaborate a little on how a 250/video card is more flexible than a 350?

Actually there's one more thing you may want to consider, getting a 350 and a good video card. The video card will be essential to getting good PQ on your PJ. You could then use the 350's output for maximum PQ on your SD RPTV (it's not HD right?).

Ahhh... I think I follow ya here Have the output of the video card either via DVI or VGA go directly to the projector and the output of the 350 go to my receiver which goes to my RPTV. And you are correct, not HD.

I'm assuming that InFocus has a DVI or VGA input? If so you really will want to use that, by going component you're just going to complicate things. Component output on PC video cards is a tricky matter, involving very limited resolution support or expensive transcoders.

Yes, the InFocus ScreenPlay 110 does have both those inputs.

Also, one major reason I purchased the Integra DTR-7.4 was because of its ability to internally convert all the video input signals to component. So, whether I'm running my VCR, S-Video, or DVD player, all signals go into the DTR-7.4 and then go out both an S-Video and component output. Right now I have the S-Video output going to my SD RPTV and the component output going to the projector. So, I could use S-Video from the HTPC to the S-Video input on the DTR-7.4 and use the component output to watch it on the projector. However, I think I might get better quality by using the computer monitor input (VGA) on the projector coming directly from the HTPC, right? I have a 50' cable currently run from the area my HTPC will be at to the projector. I don't have a DVI cable though and from what I've read, it might be difficult to find a 50' DVI cable?

I did a quick search and found the GeForce FX 5900 XT. I don't know much at all about this stuff so will be taking your guys' recommendations but am wondering why you recommend this card over the 9600/9800. Aren't those "better"? Or, are you just saying the 5900 you recommend is the best bang for the buck? I don't mind spending a little extra if it'll get me a kick booty setup. I want to do this correctly the first time

Oh, sounds like you've got a nice setup there, does that DTR use digital amplification? I know the DTA-9.4 amp is digital, just curious if the RX is also.

Actually, not sure. LOL! The high end audio store I bought the projector from recommended that receiver. So far I do like it but I don't know a lot about the technical side of it... other than I'm generally considered a electronics/gadget guy by my buds but I had to call tech support to figure out how to work the damn remote. LOL!

Oh, in case you are wondering, here is what I'll be using my HTPC on. Dad built it for me... looks killer

Big TV
Bigger TV



Once again. THANKS!!! I'm excited to get this HTPC built and greatly appreciate the help!

[kny3twalker]

personally I would go 9800 PRO with a 250

the 5900 XT is a crippled video card much like the ATI SE cards

the RAM is slower and the GPU is slower

they usually perform at the level of the 5700/5700 Ultra

[stanger89]

Originally posted by kny3twalker
they usually perform at the level of the 5700/5700 Ultra

Sort of, the 5900 XT isn't the crippled stepchild of the 5900 you make it out to be. The XT simply has a slightly slower clock than the 5900, and uses slightly slower RAM. It's actually a much better card than the 5700 ultra, for about the same price.

The 5900 XT is roughly 10% faster than the 5700 Ultra. However I'm with you on not getting a 5700XT, the 5700 is right on the edge of minimum performance, so dropping it takes you below.

My reasoning behind recommending the 5900 XT is that for the best VMR9 performance you need a good card, the 5700 seems to be about the minimum, it has a 128bit memory interface, the 5900XT is more powerful/has more bandwidth so VMR9 should be easy. Plus there's no need to go with the full-up 5900/5950, that much cost/power isn't necessary.

Further, if you've read about the upcomming nVDVD 4 decoders, they're really going to shine on Geforce FX+ hardware, offering things not available on any other cards.

One more thing, with a Projector, I assume it has DVI in, or at least VGA so component output is unnecessary, making an ATI card likewise unnecessary.

[Brent94Z]

Originally posted by stanger89
One more thing, with a Projector, I assume it has DVI in, or at least VGA so component output is unnecessary, making an ATI card likewise unnecessary.

One thing about this to consider...

Right now I have component going up to the projector. I also have a VGA cable but am unsure of the quality I'll get because it is a 50' cable.

If the ATI will give me as good or better performance and has component output (I assume it does based on what you said ) then I won't have to purchase anymore cables or hardware. I'd hate to see what a 50' DVI cable would run let alone I don't want to go up into my attic again. LOL! And, for VGA, I'd have to purchase some type of splitter to allow me to use a regular monitor located at the HTPC and the projector. So, I could spend another $50 to $100 more on the video card that has component output to get around not having to spend $50 to $100 on a switch or cable. Make sense???

But, now I'm wondering, assuming the 50' VGA cable works like it should, would the quality be better using my projector as a "monitor" or would it be better using either the S-Video out or component out of the ATI?

And, if going with the 9800 Pro, I just went searching and there seem to be a number of "9800 Pro" cards Is there one specifically that is better suited for what I need?
I found the ATI Radeon Pro 256MB DDR card but what is confusing is it says at the bottom it has component output but I don't see the proper connectors??? What's up with that?

Thanks very much guys for the help!

[stanger89]

Originally posted by Brent94Z
Thanks, stanger89! But, lots of acroynms in there for a new guy. LOL! I've figured out some but having trouble with others

SDTV = standard definition TV
OSD = on screen display
PQ = picture quality???
SD RPTV = standard definition rear projection TV???
PJ = projector???

Just want to make sure I got those right so I don't have any misconceptions. hahahaa

100% correct, you pass

Does this mean that there is no difference with the OSD between the PVR-350 and PVR-250/video card with TV out? I thought I had read here somewhere that the PVR-350 did something "extra" here. I've been reading a lot so could just be confused.

Yes Sage has only one menu/OSD system and it's the same whether you view it via a video card or via the 350. What probably got you confused is that an OSD/menu system on a dedicated video output like the 350 is a rather rare thing.

Is that a typo? Below you talk about getting the 350 and a good video card... not the 250???

Ahh... I just figured out that I think you were originally going with having me get a 250 and good video card but then also presented reasons why a 350 and good video card might also be useful

You got it

Is the stability only an issue with the Intel chipsets? That is a concern because that is what I was looking at for a motherboard setup

The stability issues seem to be limited to using the OSD features on the 350's output. I don't think it makes much difference what chipset you're using. In general Intel chipsets are the way to go (for an Intel CPU at least).

Can you elaborate a little on how a 250/video card is more flexible than a 350?

Like you stated above, the 350 can basically only play standard MPEG files, basically that means only Sage recordings.

However if you use a video card for output, you can view anything that you can play on your PC, DVDs, DivX, WM9, windows desktop, web surfing, email, etc.

Ahhh... I think I follow ya here Have the output of the video card either via DVI or VGA go directly to the projector and the output of the 350 go to my receiver which goes to my RPTV. And you are correct, not HD.

Yup, that's what I was thinking. Although from the information you've now posted, I'd say your best bet would be to get a 250 and a good video card (with S-Video out) and use both the VGA/DVI and S-Video outs on it.

Yes, the InFocus ScreenPlay 110 does have both those inputs.

Also, one major reason I purchased the Integra DTR-7.4 was because of its ability to internally convert all the video input signals to component. So, whether I'm running my VCR, S-Video, or DVD player, all signals go into the DTR-7.4 and then go out both an S-Video and component output. Right now I have the S-Video output going to my SD RPTV and the component output going to the projector. So, I could use S-Video from the HTPC to the S-Video input on the DTR-7.4 and use the component output to watch it on the projector. However, I think I might get better quality by using the computer monitor input (VGA) on the projector coming directly from the HTPC, right? I have a 50' cable currently run from the area my HTPC will be at to the projector. I don't have a DVI cable though and from what I've read, it might be difficult to find a 50' DVI cable?

I looked at the PDF, and your PJ is 800x600 native. That makes it very easy, any video card can do that. I'd really advise against going component because that will limit you to about 3 resolutions 640x480, 1280x720, and 1920x1080.

It's generally agreed that the best PQ occurs when you feed the projector it's native resolution (800x600 in your case) and let the PC do all the scaling. FWIW, there probably isn't a huge difference between VGA and DVI, so with a 50' run I'd go VGA. Just make sure you get a good cable, made with coax. It doesn't need to be made of silver like those from bettercables. You might want to look at Bluejeanscable. And actually after checking there, a 50ft DVI cable is less than a 50ft VGA cable.

I did a quick search and found the GeForce FX 5900 XT. I don't know much at all about this stuff so will be taking your guys' recommendations but am wondering why you recommend this card over the 9600/9800. Aren't those "better"? Or, are you just saying the 5900 you recommend is the best bang for the buck? I don't mind spending a little extra if it'll get me a kick booty setup. I want to do this correctly the first time

ATI has traditionally been the favorite for HTPC use. And that view was well founded back in the days of the Geforce 4, however with the release of the Geforce FX line, things seem to have changed. It's going to take a while for people to get over the automatic "buy ATI" answer I think.

It's kind of funny in a way, for a long time ATI was the only way to go for video, and nVidia was the undisputed king of PC gaming, but now, nVidia is hitting the PC video area hard, and ATI has the PC gaming lead

Info on the upcomming nVidia 4.0 decoders
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=429080
Theatertek 2.0 info (nVidia 4.0 decoders)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=412619
vpopovic's story of his trials of nearly all video cards available, and his ultimate DVD HTPC:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...imate+DVD+htpc
vpopovic's HTPC evaluated by none other than Joe Kane (of Digital Video Essentials fame) himself:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...light=joe+kane

The way things are going now, nVidia seems to be taking the right steps to improve HTPC picture quality.

Actually, not sure. LOL! The high end audio store I bought the projector from recommended that receiver. So far I do like it but I don't know a lot about the technical side of it... other than I'm generally considered a electronics/gadget guy by my buds but I had to call tech support to figure out how to work the damn remote. LOL!

Oh, in case you are wondering, here is what I'll be using my HTPC on. Dad built it for me... looks killer

Big TV
Bigger TV



Once again. THANKS!!! I'm excited to get this HTPC built and greatly appreciate the help!

You seem to be in about the same spot I am, or more correctly about 6-months to 1 year ahead of me. I've got a 36" RCA HD ready that I currently use, but am planning my display upgrade. Actually my whole HT upgrade. I'm thinking either a Pioneer Elite 56/59TXi, or separates (Anthem AVM-30, PVA 7) and some Magnepans on the audio side, and either a nice PJ (Benq 8700, Infocus 4805) or one of the new Mitsubishi DLPs like the 62525/62725. But that's all still on the drawing board

Oh, and while you're plainning your HTPC, don't forget a soundcard if you're planning on playing music on it. If you're curious about that let me know.

[kny3twalker]

the 5700 Ultra and the 5900 XT benchmark fairly close with the 5700 Ultra benching higher in many cases

I am having a hard time saying to buy a 5900XT over a 9800 PRO roughly the same price

when the 9800 PRO so much faster

the benefits of nvDVD decoders with an nvidia video card are only the ability to use a post processor with DXVA enabled

[stanger89]

Originally posted by Brent94Z
One thing about this to consider...

Right now I have component going up to the projector. I also have a VGA cable but am unsure of the quality I'll get because it is a 50' cable.

Well if you've got the VGA cable there already give it a shot. If you've got a PC handy it should be easy to test, just plug the PC in and see how text on the windows desktop looks.

If the ATI will give me as good or better performance and has component output (I assume it does based on what you said ) then I won't have to purchase anymore cables or hardware.

That's a tricky question, all things being equal (resolution at least) the PQ via VGA or component will be very similar. However all things wouldn't be equal since with a VGA/DVI connection, you'd be running your PJ's native resolution, with Component you'd be stuck with on ly HDTV resolutions. I'm not sure how your PJ works, but it's possible that with component you wouldn't be able to use the whole PJ since it would automatically letterbox the HD signal it was getting from the HTPC. Or you'd be forced to run it at SD resolution (640x480) in which case you still wouldn't be fully utilizing it.

I'd hate to see what a 50' DVI cable would run let alone I don't want to go up into my attic again. LOL! And, for VGA, I'd have to purchase some type of splitter to allow me to use a regular monitor located at the HTPC and the projector. So, I could spend another $50 to $100 more on the video card that has component output to get around not having to spend $50 to $100 on a switch or cable. Make sense???

Actualy most video cards have two monitor outs, usually a DVI and a VGA, so you could hook up a monitor to one, the PJ to the other and then just switch when you need to use the monitor.

But, now I'm wondering, assuming the 50' VGA cable works like it should, would the quality be better using my projector as a "monitor" or would it be better using either the S-Video out or component out of the ATI?

Component, VGA, and DVI will give you way better quality than S-Video, VGA or Component is harder to call. I'd say VGA at the projector's native resolution would give the superior picture.

And, if going with the 9800 Pro, I just went searching and there seem to be a number of "9800 Pro" cards Is there one specifically that is better suited for what I need?
I found the ATI Radeon Pro 256MB DDR card but what is confusing is it says at the bottom it has component output but I don't see the proper connectors??? What's up with that?

Probably doesn't matter too much. I've got a Sapphire 9500 and the HDTV adapter works fine on it.

Thanks very much guys for the help!

[kny3twalker]

I would go ATI branded

they have been selling them at Fry's Electronics and other electroincs store for just under 200 for months now

not sure how much you would save by going with another brand

but I would defintely look at reviews of the other branded cards to see the differences

the benefits of nvDVD decoders with an nvidia video card are only the ability to use a post processor with DXVA enabled

also I know I quoted myself but can you (stanger89) really say you would Sacrifice performance for this?

[stanger89]

Originally posted by kny3twalker
the 5700 Ultra and the 5900 XT benchmark fairly close with the 5700 Ultra benching higher in many cases

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...0_xt/page9.asp

I am having a hard time saying to buy a 5900XT over a 9800 PRO roughly the same price

when the 9800 PRO so much faster

Both cards are more than enough performance wise for video playback.

the benefits of nvDVD decoders with an nvidia video card are only the ability to use a post processor with DXVA enabled

And that's a big benefit IMO, I'm really enjoying running Sonic with DXVA, the no-hastle usage is very nice, as it the PQ. I can't wait to see what nVDVD 4 on a GeforeFX with the IVTC and Pixel-adaptive deinterlacing looks like

FWIW, I'm somewhat biased against ATI, I've been running my Radeon 9500 for over a year (close to two?) and frankly I'm getting sick of dealling with the driver issues. Especially the VMR9 tearing, I really think it's at least partially an ATI driver issue. If you look at the VMR9 Tearing Poll it's about 2:1 the people who have tearing on ATI hardware, even 9500+ (DX9 class) hardware. Where as on the nVidia side, it's the exact opposite. I realize that's not scientific or anything.

You can't really go wrong with either.

[stanger89]

Originally posted by kny3twalker
also I know I quoted myself but can you (stanger89) really say you would Sacrifice performance for this?

If you aren't gaming, how are you sacrificing performance? It either works or it doesn't (VMR9), and with either of those cards, VMR9 should work w/o incident.

Personally I think the card to get will be the Geforce 6600, however those won't be out for a few months, and will be PCI Express at launch.

[kny3twalker]

the best video round up until the x800/6800

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/

you can see the 5900 XT is not as much of a dog as the 9800 SE which consistantly benches low

but it does lose in benchmarks to the 5700 Ultra


also if the 6600 is anything like the x600

you may want to look at this
http://www.overclockercafe.com/Revie...600XT/pg_4.htm

the 9600 XT is barely being out performed by the x600 XT PCIe

I am guessing the 6600 will be more like a 5700 than a 5900/5950 series

seems smarter to spend less on the AGP card which is faster

for it will be a while before we see the benefits of PCIe

[Brent94Z]

Yes Sage has only one menu/OSD system and it's the same whether you view it via a video card or via the 350. What probably got you confused is that an OSD/menu system on a dedicated video output like the 350 is a rather rare thing.

Ahh... cool. Thanks for clearing that part up for me!

Like you stated above, the 350 can basically only play standard MPEG files, basically that means only Sage recordings.

However if you use a video card for output, you can view anything that you can play on your PC, DVDs, DivX, WM9, windows desktop, web surfing, email, etc.

This right here is definitely a huge deal! If I can get as good of video quality out of a FX5900 or ATI 9800 video card then that is definitely the way I want to go. I don't see why I'd limit myself to just MPEG files when I just might want to do all the other file formats you just mentioned. Looks like it's going to be the 250/250MCE card and one of the two video cards you guys are debating over... or maybe both. LOL! My main computer is a PIII 750 which is in serious need of an upgrade so I was going to build two computers... one HTPC and one for my normal computing. Both those cards are most likely overkill for my normal computer but oh well. LOL! Also, from what I can gather, it would be best to put the 9800 card in which ever computer I decide to use to play games on... which would probably be the HTPC. Hmph... is that a bad idea to try and combine a HTPC and gaming PC in one? The downside I can see is that I'd need a much more powerful processor to make it ALSO a gaming PC. If just a HTPC from what I've been reading, I can get by with a fairly old/inexpensive processor with just a lot of RAM.

Yup, that's what I was thinking. Although from the information you've now posted, I'd say your best bet would be to get a 250 and a good video card (with S-Video out) and use both the VGA/DVI and S-Video outs on it.

Yep, I think so too

It's generally agreed that the best PQ occurs when you feed the projector it's native resolution (800x600 in your case) and let the PC do all the scaling. FWIW, there probably isn't a huge difference between VGA and DVI, so with a 50' run I'd go VGA. Just make sure you get a good cable, made with coax. It doesn't need to be made of silver like those from bettercables. You might want to look at Bluejeanscable. And actually after checking there, a 50ft DVI cable is less than a 50ft VGA cable

Excellent. Great info! I've already got the VGA cable run so might have to give that a shot first before spending more $$$ and having to get up in my rafters! I'm getting a little old for that. LOL!

ATI has traditionally been the favorite for HTPC use. And that view was well founded back in the days of the Geforce 4, however with the release of the Geforce FX line, things seem to have changed. It's going to take a while for people to get over the automatic "buy ATI" answer I think.

Ok... I know a little about computers but have never been much into gaming so never really followed closely all these different video card things. But, from what I can gather and what I think is confusing me most, is people use generic terms (like 9800 or FX5900). Those are actually just chipsets, right? For example, for the FX5900 I've found a couple different looking items for what at first appears to be the same thing??? What's the difference between these two cards? Which is the better one?

GeForce FX5900 XT 128MB DDR AGP $179

XFX GeForce FX 5900 XT 128MB DDR AGP $199.

This is where I'm confused? They both have similar names but the boxes are completely different and the cards even look different???

Is the difference just that one is made by GeForce and one is made by XFX but both use the same 5900 XT chipset? Sorry for the confusion... newbie here trying to come up to speed. hahaha

You seem to be in about the same spot I am, or more correctly about 6-months to 1 year ahead of me.

Geesh! It sure doesn't sound like it to me... you're the one with the answers. LOL! I do have the home theater stuff but not the knowledge. You have the knowledge but not the stuff. Since knowledge is often times harder to gain than "stuff" I'd have to say you are ahead of me.

Oh, and while you're plainning your HTPC, don't forget a soundcard if you're planning on playing music on it. If you're curious about that let me know.

Yep, the sound card is going to be important as well. I have a 7.1 multi channel input on the back of the Integra that I plan on using for the HTPC so I'll need a sound card that has the proper cables for this

Thanks!

[Brent94Z]

Originally posted by kny3twalker
the 5700 Ultra and the 5900 XT benchmark fairly close with the 5700 Ultra benching higher in many cases

I am having a hard time saying to buy a 5900XT over a 9800 PRO roughly the same price

when the 9800 PRO so much faster

the benefits of nvDVD decoders with an nvidia video card are only the ability to use a post processor with DXVA enabled

Hmmm... do you have the English version of that last sentence? LOL!

[Brent94Z]

That's a tricky question, all things being equal (resolution at least) the PQ via VGA or component will be very similar. However all things wouldn't be equal since with a VGA/DVI connection, you'd be running your PJ's native resolution, with Component you'd be stuck with on ly HDTV resolutions. I'm not sure how your PJ works, but it's possible that with component you wouldn't be able to use the whole PJ since it would automatically letterbox the HD signal it was getting from the HTPC. Or you'd be forced to run it at SD resolution (640x480) in which case you still wouldn't be fully utilizing it.

Yeah, the projector can do all sorts of internal resizing of the picture to make it fit properly on the screen. It does a pretty good job of it because I don't really notice a degradation in picture quality when, for example, I take a standard cable broadcast and stretch it to fit on a 16:9 screen. Still looks good but things are a little outta proportion

Actualy most video cards have two monitor outs, usually a DVI and a VGA, so you could hook up a monitor to one, the PJ to the other and then just switch when you need to use the monitor.

Yeah... that's a good idea. But, I'd need the DVI cable then as well for the projector. I'd rather buy a cable though than a switch since I think I'd probably lose some quality going through a switch.

Probably doesn't matter too much. I've got a Sapphire 9500 and the HDTV adapter works fine on it.

On the ATI, the specs indicate component output but yet I don't see it? Does the adapter plug into the DVI output and convert that? Or the S-Video? I assume it comes with this adapter since it is mentioned on the spec sheet. I'm just a little confused on how I'd actually use and if I'd lose the ability to use one of the other outputs like the DVI or S-Video?

[Brent94Z]

Originally posted by kny3twalker
I would go ATI branded

they have been selling them at Fry's Electronics and other electroincs store for just under 200 for months now

not sure how much you would save by going with another brand

but I would defintely look at reviews of the other branded cards to see the differences

Thanks! I see you two who know WAY more than me are having a very good discussion about which would be best. I'm just watching on the sidelines trying to figure it out too. LOL!

Since you like the ATI and I know zilch about them, do you have a link to which particular card you like? If you'll notice above, I'm having trouble figuring out just which card you guys are talking about because there are so many (or so it seems) "ATI 9800" cards.

Also, I'm not trying to do this as cheaply as possible and am willing to spend a little more to make sure I get the right thing the first time. I'm not loaded or "rich" but $100 one way or the other on a video card is OK. Granted, I don't want to spend $100 extra unnecessarily but if spending $100 more will get me a few more features or a little more speed or allow me to play some better games, then that's probably the way I'd like to go.

Thanks!

OT: I notice your avatar. I'm pretty much an F-Body nut and am involved pretty heavy in the online F-Body community so we may have run into each other before on some other message board if you do car boards as well

[stanger89]

Originally posted by Brent94Z
Ahh... cool. Thanks for clearing that part up for me!



This right here is definitely a huge deal! If I can get as good of video quality out of a FX5900 or ATI 9800 video card then that is definitely the way I want to go. I don't see why I'd limit myself to just MPEG files when I just might want to do all the other file formats you just mentioned. Looks like it's going to be the 250/250MCE card and one of the two video cards you guys are debating over... or maybe both. LOL! My main computer is a PIII 750 which is in serious need of an upgrade so I was going to build two computers... one HTPC and one for my normal computing. Both those cards are most likely overkill for my normal computer but oh well. LOL! Also, from what I can gather, it would be best to put the 9800 card in which ever computer I decide to use to play games on... which would probably be the HTPC. Hmph... is that a bad idea to try and combine a HTPC and gaming PC in one? The downside I can see is that I'd need a much more powerful processor to make it ALSO a gaming PC. If just a HTPC from what I've been reading, I can get by with a fairly old/inexpensive processor with just a lot of RAM.

Actually if you want to game, I'd consider a Geforce 6800, the extra horsepower will be handy for gaming.

Yep, I think so too

Excellent. Great info! I've already got the VGA cable run so might have to give that a shot first before spending more $$$ and having to get up in my rafters! I'm getting a little old for that. LOL!

Ok... I know a little about computers but have never been much into gaming so never really followed closely all these different video card things. But, from what I can gather and what I think is confusing me most, is people use generic terms (like 9800 or FX5900). Those are actually just chipsets, right? For example, for the FX5900 I've found a couple different looking items for what at first appears to be the same thing??? What's the difference between these two cards? Which is the better one?

GeForce FX5900 XT 128MB DDR AGP $179

XFX GeForce FX 5900 XT 128MB DDR AGP $199.

This is where I'm confused? They both have similar names but the boxes are completely different and the cards even look different???

Basically nVidia doesn't make video cards, they make chips, they then sell them to other companies (like XFX) who build cards. The specs (speeds, amount of ram, connections) vary from company to company, as do the software bundles. That's what accounts for the price difference. And ATI is going the same way now, although they still do make their own cards as well.

Is the difference just that one is made by GeForce and one is made by XFX but both use the same 5900 XT chipset? Sorry for the confusion... newbie here trying to come up to speed. hahaha

You might want to check out newegg, they do a good job of posting all (or most) of the specs for the cards they sell so it's easier to compare them quickly.

Geesh! It sure doesn't sound like it to me... you're the one with the answers. LOL! I do have the home theater stuff but not the knowledge. You have the knowledge but not the stuff. Since knowledge is often times harder to gain than "stuff" I'd have to say you are ahead of me.

Well since I'm poor and don't have the stuff, I spend my time figuring out what stuff I'd get if I had money

Yep, the sound card is going to be important as well. I have a 7.1 multi channel input on the back of the Integra that I plan on using for the HTPC so I'll need a sound card that has the proper cables for this

I'll try and make this quick. Basically there are two ways to connect your setup analog 7.1 like you said or digital, like a DVD player. If you want to go analog, I'd strongly recommend the M-Audio Revolution 7.1, it's got a great analog output, plus Bass Management and time alignment, something your DTR probably doesn't do on that input. If you want multichannel audio for your gaming you'll want to go analog.

The other option is to go digital, where you just hook up a single coax (or optical) cable and let the DTR do it's thing.

Here's the tricky part, if you want to do music well, you want a card that doesn't resample CD audio, all the Soundblasters do this, so that eliminates them. But if you want to game, no card can match the low CPU usage of an Audigy.

I guess, if music is important to you, and you call yourself a casual gamer, I'd go the Revo 7.1, if you don't care much about music, and are more of a hardcore gamer, go the Audigy 2.

Or you could just get an Xbox and not worry about the PC gaming thing

[stanger89]

Originally posted by Brent94Z
Hmmm... do you have the English version of that last sentence? LOL!

Basically video cards are capable of doing some of the video decoding, it's called DirectX Video Accelleration (DXVA).

[stanger89]

Originally posted by Brent94Z
Yeah, the projector can do all sorts of internal resizing of the picture to make it fit properly on the screen. It does a pretty good job of it because I don't really notice a degradation in picture quality when, for example, I take a standard cable broadcast and stretch it to fit on a 16:9 screen. Still looks good but things are a little outta proportion



Yeah... that's a good idea. But, I'd need the DVI cable then as well for the projector. I'd rather buy a cable though than a switch since I think I'd probably lose some quality going through a switch.

Actually most (I'd venture to say all) DVI ports on video cards are DVI-I, meaning that with an adapter (that they usually come with), they can be used as a VGA port.

On the ATI, the specs indicate component output but yet I don't see it? Does the adapter plug into the DVI output and convert that? Or the S-Video? I assume it comes with this adapter since it is mentioned on the spec sheet. I'm just a little confused on how I'd actually use and if I'd lose the ability to use one of the other outputs like the DVI or S-Video?

It's an adapter that connects to the DVI port, and I don't remember for sure if you can use the adapter and another output at the same time.

http://shop.ati.com/product.asp?sku=2537967