[Schedules Direct] SageTV developers: new API

[rkulagow]

[I work for Schedules Direct]

There is a new API that is currently in beta; please take a look at

https://forums.schedulesdirect.org/v...hp?f=17&t=3053

for additional information.

[Tiki]

Does this mean that the current API will soon be deprecated?
If nobody steps up and updates Sage for the new API, will SD stop functioning?

[SHS]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Does this mean that the current API will soon be deprecated?
If nobody steps up and updates Sage for the new API, will SD stop functioning?

What's New in API 20191022
Here are the changes between API 20141201 and API 20191022.
Standardized responses:

ATSC channels in the lineup map are no longer treated as a special case; everything has been collapsed to a "channel" field.
The stationID schedule MD5 query and schedule query responses are now the same, but the schedule response includes a "programs" array.
The lineups in a postal code query now returns all lineups as a list rather than an associative array.

MD5 values are 32 characters wide.

The request for a stationIDs MD5 values (in order to determine if a schedule has changed) now returns all days; the "date" doesn't need to be specified.

Users may now have 5 tokens; this is to alleviate the issue where multiple machines in a single location are updating at the same time and invalidating each other's tokens, resulting in a ping/pong situation.

Retrieving images now requires presenting a token; the response from the service will redirect with a HTTP 303. The redirect will be to a pre-signed URL hosted at AWS. The URL will be valid for 60 seconds.


I don't think the EPG will stop functioning base on above

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by SHS

What's New in API 20191022
Here are the changes between API 20141201 and API 20191022.
Standardized responses:

ATSC channels in the lineup map are no longer treated as a special case; everything has been collapsed to a "channel" field.
The stationID schedule MD5 query and schedule query responses are now the same, but the schedule response includes a "programs" array.
The lineups in a postal code query now returns all lineups as a list rather than an associative array.

MD5 values are 32 characters wide.

The request for a stationIDs MD5 values (in order to determine if a schedule has changed) now returns all days; the "date" doesn't need to be specified.

Users may now have 5 tokens; this is to alleviate the issue where multiple machines in a single location are updating at the same time and invalidating each other's tokens, resulting in a ping/pong situation.

Retrieving images now requires presenting a token; the response from the service will redirect with a HTTP 303. The redirect will be to a pre-signed URL hosted at AWS. The URL will be valid for 60 seconds.


I don't think the EPG will stop functioning base on above

Some of those changes sound like they would break things - such as returning a list type instead of an array type. It sounds like they are also changing how image retrieval works, so that could have some impacts.

If they just add new functions to the api it’s no big deal, but if they remove or change existing functions, it could cause problems.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Does this mean that the current API will soon be deprecated?
If nobody steps up and updates Sage for the new API, will SD stop functioning?

I’d step up, but I have no idea what this means. It would be a shame if Sage died due to lack of listings data of all things...

[SHS]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Some of those changes sound like they would break things - such as returning a list type instead of an array type. It sounds like they are also changing how image retrieval works, so that could have some impacts.

If they just add new functions to the api it only big deal, but if they remove or change existing functions, it could cause problems.

we have wait and see what happing Tiki

[nyplayer]

I pm'd EnterNoEscape I remember he said if something needed to change he would look into it.

[emveepee]

It's going to be a blocking change to the SD JSON API but that doesn't mean the end since there is not reason to think their other independent XMLTV interface will go away.

The fact remains that SageTV is dying a slow death with the declining developer support and just as WMC users who were clinging on to Win7 are finding out there are viable active alternatives.

Martin

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by emveepee

are finding out there are viable active alternatives.

And what alternatives to SageTV do you have in mind?

I have Tablo, EMBY, PLEX, Air TV, Fire TV and HDHomeRun, etc. installed. I try to use them in tandem at this point and find that none fit me personally as well as SageTV. (Granted I am an OTA kinda guy having never subscribed to cable.) Tablo comes close but, TBH, not that far ahead of the others.

Obviously, I, too, have thrown in the towel and agree that SageTV is on life support but I am going to hang on until the bitter end. "Who knows, maybe the horse might sing." That is too bad but "it is what it is". (Yeah, I, too, hate that expression.)

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by emveepee

It's going to be a blocking change to the SD JSON API but that doesn't mean the end since there is not reason to think their other independent XMLTV interface will go away.

The fact remains that SageTV is dying a slow death with the declining developer support and just as WMC users who were clinging on to Win7 are finding out there are viable active alternatives.

Martin

The setting of Passes (Favorites) on all other alternatives do not come close to the options SageTV has for setting up favorites. Still the best for setting shows to be recorded. Channels DVR is catching up finally to SageTV which was developed many moons ago.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

The setting of Passes (Favorites) on all other alternatives do not come close to the options SageTV has for setting up favorites. Still the best for setting shows to be recorded. Channels DVR is catching up finally to SageTV which was developed many moons ago.

Strangely, I still use cable. It’s simpler, cheaper in larger chunks, and way less hassle. TiVo & Sage, in my opinion, are still the cleanest, most well rounded, complete and customer-oriented services.
I don’t need too many plugins, frills or add-ons, but listings are of course, a must. If listings keep working, Sage can go on for years.
The only people who might dislike it are...the streaming services and content producers.
75mb down Internet costs $80 month. The next lowest package available is 40mb down for $60.
If it wasn’t for streaming, you wouldn’t need more than 20mb down. Internet suppliers must love streaming

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

The setting of Passes (Favorites) on all other alternatives do not come close to the options SageTV has for setting up favorites. Still the best for setting shows to be recorded. Channels DVR is catching up finally to SageTV which was developed many moons ago.

I haven't used Channels DVR, but I did take a look at it. You are probably right when compare 1 single item like setting favorites, and that SageTV is way more capable. I personally have never created a favorite more complicated than, "Record all new episodes of NCIS", which is the bare minimum for any DVR . But when you look at Channels DVR features and compare to sagetv... They are already out pacing sagetv and they are way newer. If I were a betting person, Channels DVR might be the next SageTV. It'll interesting to see how they grow in the next few years.

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Strangely, I still use cable. It’s simpler, cheaper in larger chunks, and way less hassle. TiVo & Sage, in my opinion, are still the cleanest, most well rounded, complete and customer-oriented services.
I don’t need too many plugins, frills or add-ons, but listings are of course, a must. If listings keep working, Sage can go on for years.
The only people who might dislike it are...the streaming services and content producers.
75mb down Internet costs $80 month. The next lowest package available is 40mb down for $60.
If it wasn’t for streaming, you wouldn’t need more than 20mb down. Internet suppliers must love streaming

If you are a sagetv user that doesn't use any plugins... you can use sagetv likely for the next 20 years. The problem for most sagetv users will be if they use any plugins and will those plugins get updated when things break. I guess EPG is like a plugin in this sense.

I always used sagetv like a streaming service. I'm not really a TV hoarder, I purge complete shows from time time time... and I only watch tv in an on-demand type of way. So when things like Netflix showed up I watched netflix in the same way that I've been watching TV for years. I can't remember the last time I ever watched live TV or even decided to browse the guide (except in a hotel room, and even then, I'd normally have offline netfix/plex shows to watch).

I wish that things like Plex could "manage" my viewing history for netflix, prime, etc. And services like Trakt and JustWatch might help with that some day.

[KryptoNyte]

Originally Posted by stuckless

If I were a betting person, Channels DVR might be the next SageTV. It'll interesting to see how they grow in the next few years.

Unless they develop a system where their userbase can help with development (like plugins), it could be a long time before Channels catches up the features SageTV has. There is some important stuff missing and it's been missing for a long time. I do, however, appreciate that they are in the forums constantly to help keep the basic operations of a DVR running.

[nyplayer]

I am too lazy to look for new shows on primetime ... so I use ChannelsDVR to record all new OTA shows on during 8,9,10 PM minus the news .... Some people in my household love hallmark Christmas movies so I have SageTV record all Christmas movies on Hallmark Channels.

I will eventually move erveryone in my household over to Channels DVR slowly but surely ... I do not think that SageTV will be a viable DVR going forward.... SageTV is the poorest in handling keeping Padding without using additional tuners.

Changes like this to Schedules direct out of the Blue and hoping that someone is kind enough to give up their time to fix things makes it more of a reason to move from SageTV completely.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

I am too lazy to look for new shows on primetime ... so I use ChannelsDVR to record all new OTA shows on during 8,9,10 PM minus the news .... Some people in my household love hallmark Christmas movies so I have SageTV record all Christmas movies on Hallmark Channels.

I will eventually move erveryone in my household over to Channels DVR slowly but surely ... I do not think that SageTV will be a viable DVR going forward.... SageTV is the poorest in handling keeping Padding without using additional tuners.

Changes like this to Schedules direct out of the Blue and hoping that someone is kind enough to give up their time to fix things makes it more of a reason to move from SageTV completely.

unless you don’t live 40 miles from OTA towers, in which case satellite or cable are the best bet. We live 60 miles from each of two, big OTA cities, so reception is unreliable

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

Unless they develop a system where their userbase can help with development (like plugins), it could be a long time before Channels catches up the features SageTV has. There is some important stuff missing and it's been missing for a long time. I do, however, appreciate that they are in the forums constantly to help keep the basic operations of a DVR running.

Yeah, I agree, enabling some openness would likely go a long way in allowing the community to add support for various things. From a quick read, they don't appear to support any tuners except for HDHomerun (so nothing like HDPVR, etc). They do appear to have REST api, so, it would seem that they are at least partially open to some type of integration, etc.

Given that SageTV is pretty much done... it would nice if there was a comparison sheet between SageTV features and other solutions and it also including things like cost, device support, etc.

Sometimes the features we feel are the most important, we find out they are not as important as we thought I felt this way for the longest time when trying to "organize" plex. I resisted plex for a long time because I couldn't create "custom views" like I could in sagetv. But then after using plex for some time, I realized that I can get still the same information as i could in sagetv, but, it was just a little different. I couldn't "save" a view as a "name", but, still, over time, I realized that that isn't something that I tended to use, but yet, for the longest time it was what prevented me from really using Plex.

[tvmaster2]

Do ANY of these newer systems, PLEX, ChannelDVR, etc., have anything like the SageTV Media Extenders, their simplicity, portability, functions, remote control?

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Do ANY of these newer systems, PLEX, ChannelDVR, etc., have anything like the SageTV Media Extenders, their simplicity, portability, functions, remote control?

I think in many ways, this is where these systems are light years ahead of sagetv. ie, sagetv has extenders... Plex, ChannelsDVR has apps for android iOS (including Android TV) and Roku and many smart TVs, etc. Plex also have a great web interface that allows you to browse/manage/play your video library. You can remotely watch plex (I do all the time from a hotel, etc), or you can download content to your phone/tablet, etc. I mean in terms of those features... Plex is light years ahead of sagetv. But plex is not really a great DVR system, so, that's where it lacks. So for something like plex, you might need an extender, you might just use your TV's smart OS, but, if you needed an "extender" you can use an android TV box, or Apple TV, etc.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by stuckless

I think in many ways, this is where these systems are light years ahead of sagetv. ie, sagetv has extenders...

I totally agree, Plex is available on almost every platform like Roku, Samsung, Fire TV, etc. And it is becoming hard to buy a TV that is not a smart TV.

In the last year I have bought Sharp TVs with built in Roku and Toshiba TVs with built in Fire TV. They work really well and are very inexpensive at the low end for sizes around 32".

And Roku has a very good, open API.

The other advantage with these systems is that you can use them for pretty much any streaming service, like Netflix, Amazon Prime Video, Disney+, Apple TV+, etc. And also install Plex, Spotify for music. And since these are connected to your LAN you can generally control them via IP commands to integrate them into a Home Automation system.

The only caveat being that Roku does not have a Crave channel for those of us in Canada.

[btrcp2000]

I wasn't planning on putting any energy into Sage's successor anytime soon, but I have been paying attention to ChannelsDVR. SOunds like it's time to start playing with it. I hope it can be used on my 2 year old not-expensive-but-not-cheap-either UNRAID server preferably in a docker.

@tvmaster2, per your question about the extender features, I now have all Shield TVs, each one with a harmony remote. I have done almost everything that can be done playing with premium channels (colosuss 1,2, hdpvr 1 and 2, even r5000) and the only thing I sacrificed was 5.1 sound for reasons above my paygrade. OTA has always been plug n play for me, so I don't even think about them, but success can be measured in whether premiums work. Shields worked as well as the extenders, and the harmony remotes have been great too. We use them to navigate every app, not just sage. Really no different at all once you get used to it. All the androidTV devices and I assume AppleTV remotes are just up-down-left-right-select and maybe one or two more, which the harmony database is already aware of. Just a short learnign curve on harmony setup.

When Sage dies, I don't think I'll need any new hardware for whatever comes next.