New system build

[irishattorney]

Hi,

I have used Sagetv since version 2.0 I stopped for a while, and now trying to get it back up and running.

I installed on my Intel 4790k chip computer with silicondust 4 HD network recorder. I have ClearQam where I live so I was able to see the cable channels.

But... it was very slow. changing channels or anything was glacial.

Is that just the way it is with HDstreams?

The SD channels worked fast.

I am building a new box, can use any operating system, I can get new recorder cards or I can use network records like silicon dust.

I basically want it to run great and do HD streaming.


What should I get?

How should I set up?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[irishattorney]

Here is what I am planning to order from microcenter. any suggestions?


Intel Core i7-8700K $299.99
ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-E $169.99
G.Skill Ripjaws V 16GB 2 x 8GB DDR4 $179.99
Noctua NH-D15S CPU Cooler $109.99
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 Overclocked 2GB $149.99
EVGA GQ 650 Watt 80 Plus $79.99
Antec P-100 Silent ATX Mid-Tower Computer Case $79.99

Considering Windows 10 or Linux.

Suggestions? Anything look wrong?

[jchiso]

I’m sure others may be in different camps, but I tend to go for really low-frills builds for Sage stuff. Is this just a server, or will it be used as a playback device, as well? That’s a lot of processing power for either usage ...

[KryptoNyte]

Who is your cable TV provider? If your cable provider is Charter Spectrum, was it previously Time Warner, or has it always been Charter?

[david1234]

Originally Posted by jchiso

I’m sure others may be in different camps, but I tend to go for really low-frills builds for Sage stuff. Is this just a server, or will it be used as a playback device, as well? That’s a lot of processing power for either usage ...

If it's just running sage server, you could get by with an i5, and probably an i3. Unless you're doing a lot of transcoding, Sagetv doesn't push the cpu (I'm running on an ancient core2quad)

I'd save some money on the CPU and buy ssd's or more memory

[irishattorney]

Thanks for the feedback.

I am planning on using this one as a server and play back on main 60 inch UHD tv since when I used the Nvidia Shield before, they was some lag time.

I am wondering about transcoding. I believe that is what you do when you change the recorded HD recording into another format for streaming to another device correct?

Or do you transcode all recordings once recorded and save in new format before the need to stream?


I was on time warner, now on spectrum.. It looks like at my new residence they do not have clear qam so I am now looking into ways or recording encoded TV from spectrum. Either with box control, ( what I did ten years ago) or is there an alternative? a recorder that used a card? etc?

[KryptoNyte]

You'll need a HDHomeRun Prime, cablecard, and tuning adapter. This will get you 3 tuners and only your local affiliate stations, all the rest will have to come through a set-top-box and HDPVR style (per tuner) with IR channel changing, a lot of folks use the USB-UIRT for this.

One other option that is a bit more involved;

https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63212

Which basically funnels TV through Windows Media Center (in Windows 7) and then you use an Xbox 360 (or another computer with WMC7) and record TV with an HDPVR style device, or network encoder (with stereo audio only).

1 Xbox360 + 1 HDPVR or network encoder = 1 tuner

Unfortunately for you, and me, you've likely come from Time Warner's legacy cable system that has most channels marked as copy-once, which is a no-go for SageTV (directly), and take significant work-around. Should you choose to use the WMC Live system, it should probably be something Windows 7 based.

[texneus]

Regarding your most recent questions:

Transcoding would only be needed if you don't have the bandwith. Inside your home no transcoding should be needed (except maybe for a wireless connection). For a placeshifter on the internet, possibly, depending on the bitrate of the video and the speed of the connection (on each end).

For Encrypted QAM a HD Homerun Prime can be used, but only on channels without DRM flags. I always just used a cable box and capture card myself, which works on everything.


Regarding your proposed system:

That is way overkill for a SageTV system, even one that is used as a server. Many people use NUCs and similar small form factor (SFF) systems for HTPCs now-a-days. Maybe you have other uses in mind or just a hole in your pocket (the economy thanks you), in which case you can ignore my thoughts..

Intel Core i7-8700K $299.99

Point of reference: My current Win7 SageTV client runs on a i3-4330 wich has been downclocked substantially to lower power dissipation (it runs fanless). Although it currently is only a client, it previously ran as an "all in one", both server and client, plus Kodi, plus PowerDVD for local Blu-ray playback. Neither configuration presented any issues for any task.

My current SageTV server is a middle of the road Xeon equivalent to a i5. Although it does have more power, I ask much more of the server overall than just SageTV (Emby, Airsonic, as well as a general purpose file server). In experimenting, a single core at 2.8GHz is all that is needed to transcode HD to h.264 for streaming in most cases, well within reach of an i3 (even an old one). SageTV is intentionally restricted to run on only 2 of the 4 CPU cores.


ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-E $169.99

A plain vanilla motherboard will work just as well and cost much less. If this is a dedicated server, you will almost certainly be better off with an actual server board in the same price range.


G.Skill Ripjaws V 16GB 2 x 8GB DDR4 $179.99

Way more than needed. I would avoid G.Skill (had lots of problems with them and their support in the past). If this is for SageTV only you can run very comfortably on 4GB of RAM. Remember on WIndows, SageTV itself is 32 bit and limited to ~1GB.


Noctua NH-D15S CPU Cooler $109.99

Skip it. Included cooler is more than adiquate. Maybe if you get the k and overclock. Otherwise, no need.


Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 Overclocked 2GB $149.99

Skip it. Intel integrated graphics play video quite handsomely (see Linux footnote below). Even if you need a graphics card, the lowest AMD or Nvida model should be more than capable of good quality hardware accelerated video playback (usually, the "hardware" for this is the same in all cards of the same series).


EVGA GQ 650 Watt 80 Plus $79.99

Even on the system you described, a 400 watt power supply is more than enough and would still give about a 50% operating margin.

...

Considering Windows 10 or Linux.

Remember on Linux you are limited to placeshifter for a client which I have not had a whole lot of luck with and may require a discrete GPU. If Linux make sure all hardware (including CPU, motherboard, and video) are supported on your chosen distro. Cutting edge stuff can be iffy.

[rrhorer]

I just built an unraid/docker server and couldn't be happier. It's based on an i3-8100, Z370M Pro4 MB, 8 gig ram, Samsung 860 EVO 256 SSD, 3-2TB HDs, a 1.5 TB HD and a Seasonic Focus Gold 550 power supply, all in a Cooler Master HAF XB EVO case. For recording (Comcast/XFinity), I use a HDHR Prime. My system is fairly minimal but very responsive (more than adequate cpu power for a Sage server) and meets my needs. An unraid/docker setup is probably the least difficult for a new build, especially with the great work by Stuckless, Fuzzy and EnterNoEscape (OpenDCT). All it takes are several easy steps, even for someone like me who has had a Windows 7 SageTV saerver for many years and knew nothing about Linux:
1. Setup unraid (basic version cost $59).
2. Install Community Applications plugin.
3. Using the Community Applications plugin, install the stuckless-sagetv-server-java10 docker.
4. Install the crazifuzzy-opendct docker.
These steps are better explained in the SageTV for unRAID/Docker sub-forum.

I also installed coppit's HandBrake docker that allows me to easily have the server convert recorded movies to smaller mp4 files.

Where you may have some difficulty is using the same system as a client. Linux is probably not the best way to go; but a VM running Widows is a possibility. You can inquire from others who know a lot, lot more than I know about VMs, Windows and clients under Linux, unRAID/Docker, etc.

[JustFred]

Originally Posted by irishattorney

I was on time warner, now on spectrum.. It looks like at my new residence they do not have clear qam so I am now looking into ways or recording encoded TV from spectrum. Either with box control, ( what I did ten years ago) or is there an alternative? a recorder that used a card? etc?

Sadly, TWC (now Spectrum) is notorious for tagging all channels (except the locals) as CopyOnce. This means that they can't be recorded using an HdHomeRun Prime + Cablecard (which would otherwise have been a preferred tuner solution).

To confirm whether this is the case on your current cable system, plan a house call to a friendly neighbor who has Spectrum tv service. Beforehand, dig up the Installation Manual for the exact model of set-top box being used there. (Search the forums for more details if the following steps aren't clear.) Locate the section for Diagnostics. You'll want to find out how to access the Current Channel Status (or something similarly named) in order to determine the CCI flag value. Armed with this info, use the neighbor's box to inspect the CCI flag value for several non-local, non-premium channels of interest. If the CCI flag value is anything OTHER than 00 ("copy freely"), then using a CableCard isn't going to work. Sad Panda. On to Plan B.

Plan B involves using one (or more) set-top-boxes provided by your cable company, plus a video capture device per STB, plus some way for Sage to change the channels on the STB. The forums have quite a few threads discussing what's involved with going this route. Just be aware that attempting to use Firewire for changing channels limits the choices for an OS; 64-bit Windows isn't among them.

[Telecore]

If most channels are copy-once, you might want to consider getting Windows 7 or 8 and just running Windows Media Center. It allows you to record and play back copy-once material. You can get used xbox-360's cheap for extenders. This would be less hardware and less complexity. I don't think WMC is as good as SageTV, but it does the job.

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by Telecore

If most channels are copy-once, you might want to consider getting Windows 7 or 8 and just running Windows Media Center. It allows you to record and play back copy-once material. You can get used xbox-360's cheap for extenders. This would be less hardware and less complexity. I don't think WMC is as good as SageTV, but it does the job.

Or wait a few more months for SiliconDust to come out with their upgraded DVR service that will allow you to record all channels, even premium. As with many solutions, there would be pros and cons compared to a SageTV solution.

[irishattorney]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

Or wait a few more months for SiliconDust to come out with their upgraded DVR service that will allow you to record all channels, even premium. As with many solutions, there would be pros and cons compared to a SageTV solution.

New Silicon dust? About to google it, but can you give me a link?

Thanks for all the help.

I decided to make the new system my personal computer, and use my old 4790k system as my server since everyone agreed the new one was over kill.

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by irishattorney

New Silicon dust? About to google it, but can you give me a link?

https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=14

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=14

You can now Timeshift DRM and Non-DRM content with or without DVR service on IOS and windows ...

"Live TV pause/FF/RW feature works with all channels including protected channels (Win10 and iOS). Works with all HDHomeRun models including legacy models. DVR account not required to use this feature."


HDHomeRun app - Android (20180419)
* Add pause/FF/RW support to live TV. Requires Android device with at least 1.5GB RAM. Not available on the original Nexus Player box or the FireTV Stick as they do not meet this minimum requirement.

[wayner]

I would also suggest using unRAID as your OS, at least give it a try. It was built as a NAS OS so it works very well as a file server, and you can also run Virtual Machines on it, plus applications like SageTV in docker containers.

[jchiso]

I did not want to do a monster quote, but I am in full agreement with everything texneus pointed out, above ...