MKV's and HD300

[NetworkGuy]

I have had this happen a few times, where certain MKV files play fine in the Client or Placeshifter, but all I get is a blank screen on an HD300. I usually just end up converting them to MPEG. But I am getting more and more MKV files that I need to convert.

Is there a way to play MKV files on a HD300?

P.S. I also tried and they do not play on the mini-client.

Thanks,
John

[stuckless]

If they are h265 videos then the HD300 won't play it. The MiniClient can, but, the MiniClient would require a V9 Server. Other than that, not sure why they would not play. I have seen this before, and typically it's because of an audio or video codec that that's not fully supported. I think sagetv will try to transcode on the fly when that happens (I think).

[NetworkGuy]

This is the media info of a file that will not play.

General
Unique ID                                : 179688189490607465410086776249805315371 (0x872EAFBD1AF93170ACB36FB39E5E1D2B)
Complete name                            : \\MYNAS\Movies\@PlayLater\Ant-Man (2015).mkv
Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 4 / Version 2
File size                                : 6.83 GiB
Duration                                 : 1 h 57 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 8 347 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2015-11-22 13:11:35
Writing application                      : mkvmerge v8.5.2 ('Crosses') 64bit
Writing library                          : libebml v1.3.3 + libmatroska v1.4.4

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L4@Main
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration                                 : 1 h 57 min
Bit rate                                 : 5 372 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 038 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 1.85:1
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.112
Stream size                              : 4.39 GiB (64%)
Writing library                          : x265 1.8+109-f722fb55404b:[Windows][MSVC 1900][64 bit] 10bit
Encoding settings                        : wpp / ctu=64 / min-cu-size=8 / max-tu-size=32 / tu-intra-depth=2 / tu-inter-depth=2 / me=3 / subme=3 / merange=57 / rect / amp / max-merge=3 / temporal-mvp / no-early-skip / rdpenalty=0 / no-tskip / no-tskip-fast / strong-intra-smoothing / no-lossless / no-cu-lossless / no-constrained-intra / no-fast-intra / open-gop / no-temporal-layers / interlace=0 / keyint=240 / min-keyint=23 / scenecut=40 / rc-lookahead=30 / lookahead-slices=0 / bframes=8 / bframe-bias=0 / b-adapt=2 / ref=3 / limit-refs=3 / limit-modes / weightp / weightb / aq-mode=3 / qg-size=32 / aq-strength=1.00 / cbqpoffs=0 / crqpoffs=0 / rd=6 / psy-rd=0.50 / rdoq-level=2 / psy-rdoq=10.00 / signhide / deblock / sao / no-sao-non-deblock / b-pyramid / cutree / no-intra-refresh / rc=crf / crf=20.5 / qcomp=0.80 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / ipratio=1.10 / pbratio=1.10
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : FLAC
Format/Info                              : Free Lossless Audio Codec
Codec ID                                 : A_FLAC
Duration                                 : 1 h 57 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 2 781 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 8 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, Back: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 10.417 FPS (4608 spf)
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Stream size                              : 2.27 GiB (33%)
Writing library                          : Lavf57.10.101
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

Audio #2
ID                                       : 3
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : A_AC3
Duration                                 : 1 h 57 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 spf)
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 161 MiB (2%)
Title                                    : Commentary
Language                                 : English
Service kind                             : Complete Main
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

I am guessing the problem is caused by the HEVC video codec.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by NetworkGuy

This is the media info of a file that will not play.

General
Unique ID                                : 179688189490607465410086776249805315371 (0x872EAFBD1AF93170ACB36FB39E5E1D2B)
Complete name                            : \\MYNAS\Movies\@PlayLater\Ant-Man (2015).mkv
Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 4 / Version 2
File size                                : 6.83 GiB
Duration                                 : 1 h 57 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 8 347 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2015-11-22 13:11:35
Writing application                      : mkvmerge v8.5.2 ('Crosses') 64bit
Writing library                          : libebml v1.3.3 + libmatroska v1.4.4

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L4@Main
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration                                 : 1 h 57 min
Bit rate                                 : 5 372 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 038 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 1.85:1
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.112
Stream size                              : 4.39 GiB (64%)
Writing library                          : x265 1.8+109-f722fb55404b:[Windows][MSVC 1900][64 bit] 10bit
Encoding settings                        : wpp / ctu=64 / min-cu-size=8 / max-tu-size=32 / tu-intra-depth=2 / tu-inter-depth=2 / me=3 / subme=3 / merange=57 / rect / amp / max-merge=3 / temporal-mvp / no-early-skip / rdpenalty=0 / no-tskip / no-tskip-fast / strong-intra-smoothing / no-lossless / no-cu-lossless / no-constrained-intra / no-fast-intra / open-gop / no-temporal-layers / interlace=0 / keyint=240 / min-keyint=23 / scenecut=40 / rc-lookahead=30 / lookahead-slices=0 / bframes=8 / bframe-bias=0 / b-adapt=2 / ref=3 / limit-refs=3 / limit-modes / weightp / weightb / aq-mode=3 / qg-size=32 / aq-strength=1.00 / cbqpoffs=0 / crqpoffs=0 / rd=6 / psy-rd=0.50 / rdoq-level=2 / psy-rdoq=10.00 / signhide / deblock / sao / no-sao-non-deblock / b-pyramid / cutree / no-intra-refresh / rc=crf / crf=20.5 / qcomp=0.80 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / ipratio=1.10 / pbratio=1.10
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : FLAC
Format/Info                              : Free Lossless Audio Codec
Codec ID                                 : A_FLAC
Duration                                 : 1 h 57 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 2 781 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 8 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, Back: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 10.417 FPS (4608 spf)
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Stream size                              : 2.27 GiB (33%)
Writing library                          : Lavf57.10.101
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

Audio #2
ID                                       : 3
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : A_AC3
Duration                                 : 1 h 57 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 spf)
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 161 MiB (2%)
Title                                    : Commentary
Language                                 : English
Service kind                             : Complete Main
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

I am guessing the problem is caused by the HEVC video codec.

That's the problem. Now, the Android MiniClient with V9 server should play this provided the Box has HEVC codec support (NVidia Shield an MiBox2 does). Some phones might have it as well, but not sure all phones/tablet do.

[NetworkGuy]

So I guess the only answer is to convert it to an mpeg file.

Is there a list of what codecs the HD300 will play?

[Tiki]

I think HEVC is about the only standard video format it doesn't play, since it didn't exist when the HD300 was released.

[poto]

Is there any possibility of SageTV Server v9/HD300 combo ever being able to playback x265 stream via on-the-fly transcode?

I can understand developers targeting efforts on the increasing numbers of miniclient users vs the fixed, or slowly decreasing, HD300 users (myself included).

If, however, a fix were possible, it would certainly extend the HD300/HD200 service life another 4-5 yrs, as cpu cycles have never been cheaper.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by poto

Is there any possibility of SageTV Server v9/HD300 combo ever being able to playback x265 stream via on-the-fly transcode?

I can understand developers targeting efforts on the increasing numbers of miniclient users vs the fixed, or slowly decreasing, HD300 users (myself included).

If, however, a fix were possible, it would certainly extend the HD300/HD200 service life another 4-5 yrs, as cpu cycles have never been cheaper.

The video would, by necessity, be required to be transcoded in real-time to H.264. The HD200/HD300 extenders are pure hardware decoders. There is no way to augment that functionality to include new video encoding formats. Even if there was we don't have the licensing from Silicon Image to make those changes. As such the SageTV media extenders can no longer receive updates. This is the reason so much focus has been on getting the Android client working.

[poto]

So, understanding that the the HD300 is unable to be modified to accept HEVC, is there any way for h.265 to h.264 transcode to be handled on the server side?

I don't have enough knowledge of how sagetv client/server interacts to know if my request is technically impossible, too much effort for too small a user base, or somewhere in between, but it would be nice to find out either way.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by poto

So, understanding that the the HD300 is unable to be modified to accept HEVC, is there any way for h.265 to h.264 transcode to be handled on the server side?

I don't have enough knowledge of how sagetv client/server interacts to know if my request is technically impossible, too much effort for too small a user base, or somewhere in between, but it would be nice to find out either way.

I'm sure it's possible but it would probably take a lot of work.

To my knowledge SageTV only streams to extenders without transcoding unless they are used as remote clients. Even then the transcoder, FFMPEG, is a rather old version and knows nothing of H.265. I have experimented with H.265 using my Mi Box. Currently only local devices that have native HEVC support using the Android client can play those videos. Even then the codec is unrecognized by SageTV. It doesn't even show the "HEVC" fourcc for those videos.

[EnterNoEscape]

Originally Posted by poto

So, understanding that the the HD300 is unable to be modified to accept HEVC, is there any way for h.265 to h.264 transcode to be handled on the server side?

I don't have enough knowledge of how sagetv client/server interacts to know if my request is technically impossible, too much effort for too small a user base, or somewhere in between, but it would be nice to find out either way.

That's not completely out of the question, since I believe there is a way to tell the SageTV server to transcode a specific codec. I'm not sure what would need to happen to try this out, but I imagine the experience would be like placeshifting.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by EnterNoEscape

That's not completely out of the question, since I believe there is a way to tell the SageTV server to transcode a specific codec. I'm not sure what would need to happen to try this out, but I imagine the experience would be like placeshifting.

I thought sagetv did that, today, automatically. When I building out the MiniClient, I had to tell it what codecs I supported, and, anything that I didn't support, I thought that sagetv would try to transcode. Typically when I saw the "black" screen I thought it was sagetv trying to transcode on the fly, but my computer was not fast enough to handle it. Jeff would know for sure

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by stuckless

I thought sagetv did that, today, automatically. When I building out the MiniClient, I had to tell it what codecs I supported, and, anything that I didn't support, I thought that sagetv would try to transcode. Typically when I saw the "black" screen I thought it was sagetv trying to transcode on the fly, but my computer was not fast enough to handle it. Jeff would know for sure

If that's the case then it would likely be a matter of modernizing SageTV's FFMPEG so that SageTV can recognize and transcode HEVC video. Also, since that HEVC is more computationally intensive you'd need a more powerful CPU or hardware acceleration for decoding it.

[EnterNoEscape]

Originally Posted by stuckless

I thought sagetv did that, today, automatically. When I building out the MiniClient, I had to tell it what codecs I supported, and, anything that I didn't support, I thought that sagetv would try to transcode. Typically when I saw the "black" screen I thought it was sagetv trying to transcode on the fly, but my computer was not fast enough to handle it. Jeff would know for sure

Ah. That's what I was thinking about. I only had faint memories of this being discussed months ago.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by stuckless

I thought sagetv did that, today, automatically. When I building out the MiniClient, I had to tell it what codecs I supported, and, anything that I didn't support, I thought that sagetv would try to transcode. Typically when I saw the "black" screen I thought it was sagetv trying to transcode on the fly, but my computer was not fast enough to handle it. Jeff would know for sure

I think it is a combination of things - part of which is probably dependent on sage not even being able to properly detect the codec, so it doesn't know to transcode it, or what it needs to transcode. I've honestly never touched an HEVC file, so I can't attest to what it tries to do, but this would be my first guess. It may not be hard to add in the ability for sage to recognize and pass on the files more appropriately, but I doubt the transcoding experience would be ideal based on the relatively ancient ffmpeg binaries in use.

[starfire]

It would be nice to have the video transcode feature for the extenders where a codec is not supported, they added this for audio codecs a long time ago -

https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34098

3. Added property 'miniclient/disabled_audio_codecs' which allows disabling of specific audio codecs for an extender/placeshifter which will then require the server to transcode that format (i.e. you want to disable DTS pass-through)

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by starfire

It would be nice to have the video transcode feature for the extenders where a codec is not supported, they added this for audio codecs a long time ago -

https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34098

3. Added property 'miniclient/disabled_audio_codecs' which allows disabling of specific audio codecs for an extender/placeshifter which will then require the server to transcode that format (i.e. you want to disable DTS pass-through)

The capability is there for video as well. The old MediaMVP could only play back SD MPEG-2, and sage will auto-transcode other formats to that for playback. There are two issues though.

1. Sage doesn't know h.265 is a thing, so it's medaiformat detection doesn't really make the connection that it needs to transcode
2. Sage's transcoding engine doesn't contain an h.265 decoder.

[starfire]

OK cheers, I understand.

Can you get those two issues resolved please?

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

The capability is there for video as well. The old MediaMVP could only play back SD MPEG-2, and sage will auto-transcode other formats to that for playback. There are two issues though.

1. Sage doesn't know h.265 is a thing, so it's medaiformat detection doesn't really make the connection that it needs to transcode
2. Sage's transcoding engine doesn't contain an h.265 decoder.

I think that #1 might be solved, though. I know when the Android MiniClient first encountered h265 it could not play it. Jeff showed me how to change the server to allow it to work, it was a small change, if I recall. But I think the server knows about it, it just can't do anything with it, but it will pass to a client, as is, now.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by stuckless

I think that #1 might be solved, though. I know when the Android MiniClient first encountered h265 it could not play it. Jeff showed me how to change the server to allow it to work, it was a small change, if I recall. But I think the server knows about it, it just can't do anything with it, but it will pass to a client, as is, now.

I think that change was to just pass it on untouched if it didn't know what the codec was... that did not enable sage to actually detect what it was (primarily because as mentioned, SageTVTranscoder, which is what sage uses to fall back on format detection, doesn't have hevc in it). MediaFormat.java, and a couple other files, have a coded in list of formats that sage is aware of - they need to be updated to include h.265, and the detection system needs to be updated accordingly.