New User Seeks Guidance from you Experts

[kny3twalker]

you should turn on DXVA for the decoder you use in SageTV
it will either be DXVA or hardware acceleration in the decoder setup(not in Sage)
but this should be very easy to do in the DVD program/control panel application
and does not usually require a registry tweak(and it would not be a registry tweak to the SageTV registries)
it would have be separate from SageTV (in the decoder properties)

a good way to view the decoder properties is to use radlight filter manager

in SageTV you can change around the DXVA modes but not all decoders support A, B, C, and D

I will try the dscaler decoder
(all this talk makes me want to try it )

[Air]

Hehe. Theres also a non-alpha at http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/downloads.htm.

And of course, thanks to stanger 89, the alpha at http://www.dscaler.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3440.

I'll try to mess with these at work on Friday. Figure out what I'm gonna do so I can do a pristine install on my Sager I hate a messy registry!

[kny3twalker]

the link you posted was not good for the "non alpha"
also that software is liveTV (not our type of liveTV because ours is still delayed)

the one stanger89 posted was for a decoder
to use for like DVDs and encoded TV that we watch

I hope this explains it well

[stanger89]

Air, I just meant you shouldn't mess with the DXVA settings in Sage as some decoders don't work right with any setting in Sage (other than default) and other only work with some, it's better in my experience to just leave it at default.

As for Dscaler

4.x is basically a liveTV viewing app with probably the best deinterlacing/filtering algoritms available on a PC. Dscaler 4.x (non-alpha) will not work since it's an entirely different thing than what Sage needs.

However Dscaler 5, the alpha you linked to (sorry, thought I posted a link, but that must have been another thread), sounds as though it's going to be a full re-architecturing of Dscaler, based around the fact that digital video, namely MPEG (specifically DVB in Europe where John seems to be located), is quickly becoming the standard for video transmission and viewing.

John hasn't let loose a lot of details about Dscaler 5, but from what he has said, it seems as though it will be based arround the MPEG decoders and a video post processor. Knowing the history of Dscaler, that first class deinterlacing and assorted filters are halmarks, and a couple comments from John about the MPEG decoder passing interlace flags to the post processor, leads me to believe that the MPEG decoder + future post processor will essentially be Dscaler for MPEG video. This is really intriguing since deinterlacing has always been the biggest problem faced by MPEG decoding. One of the biggest features of Dscaler was its automatic film mode detection and 3:2 pulldown. That's a biggie, because while there are many great deinterlacing algorithms (like TomsMoComp, MoComp2, Faroudja DCDi), the best PQ occurs when you can simply combine proper fields together (like with DVDs) instead of having to resort to the fancy techniques which at best reduce resolution slightly and at worst comb or leave jaggies. Currently we can use some of the Dscaler algorithms (TomsMoComp) but it's engaged all the time, even when it's not neccessary, and from my experience w/ Dscaler a while ago, it's not necessary close to 75% of the time.

Well that got a little long, but before I stop I'll post a link the the Secrets DVD Benchmark Progressive Scan article that hopefully will answer many of the questions you'll undoubtedly have about deinterlacing:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...e-10-2000.html

Have fun with that

[kny3twalker]

you did post the correct link in here
I downloaded it from that link

[Air]

I tried FWMM on the T41 at work with Sage. It listed two nvidia codecs, the codec and the post processor. Clicking the post processor nvidia entry worked, but it had "tears" in the image. When I selected the nvidia codec (the non PP entry) SageTV crashed. I was selecting video decoders only, not the audio.

Guess 3.0 isn't stable yet

[stanger89]

I think it's more that the source of 3.0 is questionable, I think it's several revs behind the most recent build official beta testers had access to.

[Air]

The 2.55 NVDVD is pretty nice, best picture I've seen yet (have to use overlay to get it though).

How does sonic stack up to 2.55 NVDVD? I know both you guys like Sonic, just wondering if you're comparing with FWMM or 2.55 nvdvd.

The reason I'm asking is because I don't wanna spend $15 for the same quality as 2.55 nvdvd

I tried to use the Dscaler 5 alpha but it didn't show up in SageTV. How do you select it?

Thanks again guys, it's become our little personal chat room in here, so cheers!

[stanger89]

Did you add the line to the properties file I posted above?

http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showthr...0497#post50497

[Air]

Just did, missed it before. Sorry bout that, I try to not be lazy about this sort of stuff.

I got it working, seemed pretty stable to me. Image just about identical to the 2.55 nvdvd, couldn't really tell much difference. Both work much better with overlay than vmr9 I've found.

[kny3twalker]

you should be able to turn on the post processor in NVDVD rather than selecting it in Sage
my version of NVDVD 3
is the leaked version from viewsonic
and no I am not on the beta team for FWMM

[Air]

I didn't see any menu in the programs folder for nvdvd 3, just links to help files. How do you access the settings? I wasn't able to select nvidia decoder, it crashed sagetv. I had to select the nv pp option instead. It's not that I was trying to turn on pp in sage, it's the only option for fwmm3 I could choose and get a picture.

Kny3twalker, how do you find nvdvd 2.55 overlay compares to sonic? I found the nvdvd 2.55 to be the best (followed closely or tied with the descaler alpha). I'm curious how sonic fares against it.

Are you also forced to select the nv post processor in the menu for fwmm 3? I'll play some more with it on monday :P

I didn't find NVDVD to be any better than 2.55, but maybe it's because of the lack of hardware on the T41 or I just didn't get the correct settings.

[kny3twalker]

well to get nvDVD 3 to work you need to create a shortcut
with the correct path

I will attach mine

then you can access the menus of version 3
it looks just like version 2.55 but there is added features like the ability to turn on the post processor

and nvDVD 3(both of these problems existed in v2.55) I only had problems with crashing
1 VMR9 with hardware acceleration turned off in the nvDVD settings
2 using the nVDVD audio decoder during fast foward and rewind

sage will fix the first for the next release

[Air]

Does nvdvd 3 with post processing turned on help the quality any? Can't test myself until monday

Also, how does fwmm compare to sonic? Are the leaks we are using much better?

Thanks again !

[Air]

I messed around with Windvd, Powerdvd, Cineplayer, FWMM 3, and nvdvd 2.55 with my Return of the King DVD.

Powerdvd did the worst job of them all surprisingly, I thought windvd would have.

The best IMHO was fwmm, followed by cineplayer and windvd. It looked like cineplayer offered more color saturation whereas windvd was more capable of smoothing rough edges than sonic. Nvdvd 2.55 basically looked like fwmm, so I don't have much to comment on it

Is this the experience you guys have had? FWMM seems to be the best balance, while sonic reproduces a wider variety of colors and Invervideo does a good job of smoothing. Still, FWMM edged them all out I believe.

Feel free to comment on my ramblings.

[stanger89]

Originally posted by Air
I messed around with Windvd, Powerdvd, Cineplayer, FWMM 3, and nvdvd 2.55 with my Return of the King DVD.

Powerdvd did the worst job of them all surprisingly, I thought windvd would have.

Not surprising if you've spent much time at AVS PDVD is by far the least respected decoder. It seems like very few people who have compared it to others think it's good.

The best IMHO was fwmm, followed by cineplayer and windvd. It looked like cineplayer offered more color saturation whereas windvd was more capable of smoothing rough edges than sonic. Nvdvd 2.55 basically looked like fwmm, so I don't have much to comment on it

Is this the experience you guys have had? FWMM seems to be the best balance, while sonic reproduces a wider variety of colors and Invervideo does a good job of smoothing. Still, FWMM edged them all out I believe.

Feel free to comment on my ramblings.

While I haven't carefully compared them, I'd say I'd agree with your assessment. Between FWMM being unavailable and the hoops I have to jump through to get it working, Sonic is still my favorite due to it's great PQ, reliability and ease of use

But you did exactly what you need to do, try them and decide yourself. IMO not enough people do that, as evidenced by the total ATI bias at AVS.

[Air]

Hey now, ATI rules! At least their hardware does, not sure about their software :P

[mls]

Originally posted by Air
Hey now, ATI rules! At least their hardware does, not sure about their software :P

Well, I used to think ATI ruled, but I'm starting to lean a bit more towards nVidia now.

Likewise, I used to think Intel ruled, but I'm finding out AMD seems like a better choice now (and not just because they are cheaper either).

Guess it all depends on the usage as to which performs better for what you want/need to do.

[Air]

stanger89, what "hoops" are you referring to when it comes to making fwmm 3 work? I know selecting the decoder crashes it, but I didn't have any problems if I selected the nvdvd pp option (hopefully it used the fwmm 3 decoder when I do that).

I still had tears and whatnot. So if Sonic is better than nvdvd 2.5, let me know. Gotta put an order in :P

[kny3twalker]

if you cannot get nvidia video decoder to work without crashing sage
you did not set it up correct

sorry to tell you that

also I have mentioned this twice already do not use the nvidia audio decoder that will crash sage