2.0.20 Client locks

[cd1940]

My client locks in the following situation:

Start Client
Click Sage TV Recordings
Select a recorded show to watch
Press watch now
It displays the progress bar and controls (pause etc) and channel and summary info
then it locks

I have to use the task manager to kill it.

I am able to use all the other features except "Watch Now".

My set up is:
Client Machine: XP Pro, Intel P4 2.8, 2 GB RAM 2.0.20 client
Server Machine: XP Pro Intel P4 2.4 512 MB RAM, PVR 250, ATI RADEON 9200, 2.0.20 server

What can i do to solve/troubleshoot?

Thanks.

[mls]

I've been going round and round with the support people about this problem for several weeks now and they have not come up with a solution.

I've found in some other similar posts that it seems to have something to do with the file size going over about 500Meg.

Just to verify that yours is the exact same problem... See if it will also lock up while watching LiveTV after a period of time. Try watching a whole 2 hour LiveTV show. If it the same bug it will probably lock up in less than a half hour (will depend what quality setting you are using).

Also, try a making a few short "Timed" recordings. Say maybe only 10 minutes long and check if the Client can play those and only locks up on your other larger/longer ones.

The problem was also showing up when trying to play any Imported files much over 500Meg. So, try setting up a few video files of various lengths in a folder set up for Imported videos.

The support people believed the problem was related to me running Win98 on the server end. I had told them that I had seen several post from XP users in the forum also. And yours proves my point that it is not just a Win98 problem.

However, you do have one other thing in common with my machines. Were both running Intel chipsets, so that could help narrow things down.

I'll feed a quote of your post here to support (just to prove my own point that it's not just a Win98 problem) and maybe it will help move things along getting this solved for everyone.

Otherwise, support said Jeff may add some backwards "legacy" networking support in a future 2.1 release (since this was not a problem in the older v1.4). However, I wouldn't expect that to come out for some time (maybe months).

[carmat3]

im having the same problem. Last night after watching a prerecorded show for about 40 minuts, sage locked up and shut it self down. I restarted, and after about 30 minutes the same thing happened.

Pentium 4 2.4 ghz 800fsb
512 pc 2700 ram

[mls]

Originally posted by carmat3
im having the same problem. Last night after watching a prerecorded show for about 40 minuts, sage locked up and shut it self down. I restarted, and after about 30 minutes the same thing happened.

Pentium 4 2.4 ghz 800fsb
512 pc 2700 ram

Is you problem with SageTV itself? There are several other threads in the forum related to SageTV feezes or lock ups.

What we're trying to solve here is a problem with using the SageTV Client program (on a 2nd computer) locking up when trying to access files from the main SageTV box (running as a server on the 1st computer).

[mls]

Anyone having this problem with the SageTV v2.0 Client... Could you please provide the following information for BOTH the server and client machines:

Operating System (XP or Win98)
Motherboard Brand and Model
CPU (Intel or AMD)
Motherboard Chipset (especially if Intel)

From other earlier posts I've found about this problem, it almost seems like the only thing in common may be an Intel chipset.

If I can get a list of this info collected here, then maybe we can narrow things down a bit better as to just what is common. I'll then send that info to support in the hopes that it will help Jeff narrow down the bug in the software.

Any additional info might be helpful also, so don't be afraid to list all the details you can.

[cd1940]

As requested attached are two (2) Sandra system reports for both the client and the server machines. These are both Intel D865PERL based machines. The files are zipped.

Looking fwd to hearing what the cause of the locking is.

[mls]

Thanks for the Sandra files. I had forgotten the large amount of info Sandar produces. I think that may be a bit more info than we need (Sandra is a very nice program though).

We still need to get more data from others having this problem though to narrow things down more. As I've said, from what little I could find in other previous posts regarding this problem the only thing that I've noticed in common (so far) is seems to only be occuring with Intel chips.

This isn't the first time some quirk with Intel had caused problems. There have been several other programs in the past that just don't seem to get along with Intel chips. On the other hand, there have also been a large number of problems with VIA chipsets too.

[kny3twalker]

I really did not want to post in three topics but these problems sound similiar to the ones I had when doing wireless networking

I am running a wired network for using sage now and it is fine
but I did have to disable the wireless card in my notebook
the bridging of the wired onto the wireless seemed to cause the same problem as well

Sorry does not seem to be the same problem though cause I have read where people are experiencing this will a wire connection

My note book is running 2.019
and the server is running 2.020

but this problem has been there as long as I tried to use wireless at all(wireless g only set on router)

[mls]

kny3twalker -

Two things are not in your machine specs that I suspect may be importantance regarding this problem.

You didn't mention which chipset your motherboard(s) use. Both of mine have the Intel 865PE chipset.

Also, you didn't mention if your motherboard(s) have built-on Ethernet or if you are using seperate network cards. Here again, both my motherboards have built-on Intel Ethernet (although the chips are slightly different between the 2 boards).

I'm starting to suspect this problem may have something to do with the Intel Ethernet drivers, but could also be just something weird with specific Intel motherboard chipsets too.

But, then again, I don't know why it does allow files smaller than 500Meg to play and/or why it pukes when the LiveTV file reaches that limit. So, there's something happening there with data for file size or positioning information that's not correctly getting thru the LAN (although this too could have something to do with the Intel Ethernet drivers).

That's why I'm trying to collect more data here from other uses experiencing this same problem to hopefully narrow things down.

BTW: The other day I heard that some motherboard manufactures and hard drive makers are not doing things quite the same way for SATA drives. That's now causing a few people to have problems with certain SATA drives not working properly.

I think all this "hi-tech" computer hardware is changing just too rapidly for anyone to ever get a true "standard" for how any of it is supposed to work. And that is causing some real headaches for the software writers to work around also.

Way I see things happening lately is a "standard" gets set now only after they decide to do things completely different lol.

[kny3twalker]

my server has the 850 Chipset with intel 100MB LAN
Dell Router
my client has the 855 Chipset(Centrino) with intel 2200 wireless card(B/G) and broadcom or something 100MB LAN

[mls]

You mentioned "this problem was always there" for wireless... Have you ever had the machines connected on a "wired" LAN and had the problem?

The problem we're researching here occurs on wired 100mbs LAN setups. Wireless will always have more problems that could be random and unpredictable.

[kny3twalker]

no wireless only

[LSHorwitz]

I too am experiencing hangs on one (but not both) of my Sage clients. Both clients are Dell 2.8 GHz 800 MHz FSB machines, both running XP Home, both using the same codecs, both on the same network. The one which hangs is a 256M RAM 875 chipset Poweredge 400SC with a Gigabit NIC made by Intel onboard. The one which does not hang uses a 1 Gig RAM and slower 100 MBit Intel Pro NIC onboard and is a Dell Dimension 4600 with an 865 chipset. I virtually never see lockups on this machine whereas the other Poweredhe 400SC locks up every time I try to start it after rebooting. After multiple attempts to rerun the Sage Client software the program eeventually begins to work properly !!

These are totally stripped down machines with only an operating system and Sage Client so it keeps the software issue very simple. There is some bug in the software which is dependent on either the motherboard hardware (NIC, 875 versus 865 chipset), etc.) or the amount of RAM. I believe everything else is the same on both machines.

Ironically, I recently upgraded to this nonfunctional Poweredge 400SC from an 8 year old Dell 500 MHz PIII with 128 MB of RAM which ran the Sage Client software flawlessly. This vastly improved CPU just hangs and freezes and I have to use the Task Manager to quite Sage Client.

All of the above problem is with the version 1.4 older Client software. I see from this forum that many people are having the same type of problem with the newer version 2 software as well. I guess it could be two different issues, but my hunch is that it is an old problem which was never solved in 1.4 and now continues to be an issue in 2.0.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Larry

[mls]

In my case, it's only the newer 2.0 version that I have lock-ups on the Client. The older 1.4 version worked just fine for me.

Even though there are a lot of nice extra features in the new version, I've been staying with 1.4 (siimply because it works for me) until a solution is found for my problem with 2.0.

Oddly, support believes the problem is at/in the server and not the client itself. I run Win98 on the server end, so that could be another possible cause of problems, but it works ok for v1.4 so clearly there's some not the same with the networking parts of v2.0. Plus, it runs fine on the server end with Win98SE, just not on the client end (with either Win98SE or XP on that machine).

At first I thought it was just a Win98 issue, but as you can see from the first post here, others were having the same problem even with XP on both ends.

BTW: I have the lock up prob with both 2.0.19 and the updated 2.0.20.

[mls]

(bump)

We still need for info from any other users having this problem to help narrow down the cause and find a solution.

[LSHorwitz]

How can I further help to solve the problem? Please advise so that I can help.

The problem is maddening. One client works great, the other works terribly until something gets initialized, and from then on it works fine also. As my earlier post indicates, the machines only differ in amount of RAM and motherboard (875 verses 865 chipset) and onboard NICs.

Larry

[LSHorwitz]

I failed to mention......I have XP Home on all 3 machines.....server and 2 clients......all latest hotfixes / patches / updates installed.........Maybe Windows98 has some bearing on this bug for some users, but ceretainly not in my case.....

[mls]

LSHorwitz -

Although you appear to be having this problem with v1.4, I will say that I did not. So, at this point I'm not sure what I might be able to come up with for you (although I will try to investigate it more when I have some time).

My problem started when I changed to v2.0 with both server and client running Win98SE. As mentioned, I didn't have this problem before with v1.4 under either 98 or XP.

Originally, I thought it was a Win98 problem, but the top post that started this thread was a user with XP on both ends. From tech support, Jeff had changed some of the networking components in the newer version and that seems to be where my problem came from.

Although I do think there is something a bit wrong with the client just locking up (should error out or something, not just lock)... Anyway, tech support believes the problem is primarily in the server software end. I'm doing some testing to varify that theory myself now.

If it is true, then although it is the client locking up, what I REALLY now need is to gather specifics about the hardware everyone is using on the server (not the client end).

Hopefully that will help narrow things down a bit more.

Side note: LSHorwitz - since your prob is with v1.4 and this thread is for v2.0... feel free to PM me and I'll try to work with you on the side to see if I can help you.

[Spudman]

I was also getting lock-ups with the client, and started this thread http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showthr...&threadid=5479

Although it was the client that died, the error log only showed a problem with the server itself, but the server was still running and could be used ok locally. The client doesn't seem to like it when it doesn't get the response it expects from the server, but because the server itself is still running and sending out some data, the client thinks the server is okay & keeps waiting for data it will never get. End result, the client hangs.

Both client & server are Shuttle SN41G2 machines (NForce2 chipset / AMD AthlonXP) and were running Win98SE. After a lengthy exchange with support they came to the conclusion that Java/Win98SE was the problem and after installing a newer beta version of Java, suggested either a newer version of Windows, or to wait for version 2.1.

I'd been thinking of moving the server to WinXP anyway, so I did. For me this seems to have solved the problem. The client itself is still running Win98SE & the server is now WinXP. I've not done much checking yet, but it seems okay so far.

[LSHorwitz]

Since I have identical 2.8 GHz P4s which only differ in memory size and motherboard chipset, and are loaded with the same software (Sage TV Client only), I would have assumed that both will startup the same. Unfortunately, one starts fine and the other does not.....

I ultimately decided to use a different method to start the machine in question. Rather than Shut Down when I am done using it, I now Hibernate, and, in doing so, avoid the startup problem I have been struggling with on the subsequent use. At the expense of a little more power consumption to leave the machine in a hibernating state 23 hrs a day for the 1 hour I turn it on at night, I now can start the machine ("wake" the machine if you will) and my problem disappears.

It is just very frustrating to see the same Sage TV Client program run fine in one box and not the other. And also it is completely maddening to have an 8 year old PIII 500MHz machine run Sage TV Client without problems and then replace it with a totally new and modern machine and have the new machine crap out with the same software.

I have my Sage netowork essentially decoupled from the Internet, and thus have totally lean and mean boxes for all the Sage stuff with only Windows XP Home and Sage TV Client installed. The problem is thus entirely a Sage problem, and not in any way logically blamed on Microsoft. I have had all sorts of problems, mostly minor, with Sage software, but I think they should spend a hell of a lot more time fixing their problems rather than adding features and redoing the user interface. There are TONS of bugs and little issues in the 1.4.10 release, and I am quite certain from my own trials that version 2 is no better. It is such a great product but these snags are killers for many people.

So, I have reached a solution for the time being that I can live with. I thank you very much for your help and guidance.