SageTV key usage in open source for SageTV EPG

[korben_dallas]

So based on Jeff's EPG announcement:

1. I have a Frey Technologies (remember that name????) SageTV license key from Nov 2004 (version 4?). I have a SageTV LLC license key from Feb 2007 (version 6) and a upgrade key from June 2010 (version 7). In the past, I would enter key, restart the server, enter next key, restart, enter last key, restart. Will this work the same way in the open source version? Or I just provide the last key?

2. My understanding is that there will be no need for any client keys?

[Narflex]

You would just use the latest key.

[emveepee]

During the transition is the same key allowed in SageTV and the open source version?

Martin

[Slugger]

So new users coming into the open source version have no native EPG data support and must install a plugin to pull in epg data (or buy a server license from another user)? That's going to be a big barrier to entry for many considering most other OS PVR apps have native support for Schedules Direct (or whatever) where part of the install is just to feed it your SD creds and that's it. New users are more likely to go that route than one where you must install a 3rd party plugin, configure it, etc. etc. just to get the most basic feature of a pvr -- the epg data.

[stanger89]

How is having to install a plugin from the gui a "big barrier to entry"? Even with that, Sage is way easier to setup than Kodi, or MythTV.

[Slugger]

Maybe "big" barrier is a little strong, but I think there's at least potential for users to be turned off by the fact that to get started you have to install a plugin before you can begin to pull down epg data and if you're using my SD plugin (which is the only epg plugin I know of available in the v7 repo) it's not a simple click to install plugin -- there are extra steps required. In the case of other (xmltv, etc.) epg plugins, they aren't even available in the v7 repo, it's all manual installation via Sage.properties edits, etc.

The process isn't a big deal to seasoned users, but thinking about a new to Sage user, the fact you have to start with special plugins added to the product right off the top just to get basic functionality (and I consider the ability to get epg data into the app basic functionality) has the potential to turn some users off before they even get started.

[Slugger]

Another potential turn off to first time Sage users starting on OS version will be those who go thru the setup, get to the input setup, do that, fill in their zip code and then get an error saying "no server license" or whatever that error is going to be. Yes, the forums, FAQs, wikis, manuals, etc. will all tell people in big bold letters that if they don't have a v7 commercial license then they can't use the epg server, but how many people read the docs before installing stuff? Instead, how many new users will just constantly get the error and/or an empty epg, get fed up, wipe their hard drive and move on to the next app?

Those that come here and say, "hey how do I get epg data?" and are told "you need to install a plugin or go buy a server license from someone". Though not as likely, we will lose new users to this as well.

At the very least, someone needs to create a great big giant sticky somewhere here in the forums telling new OS users that they don't have access to the epg data that is presented during installation.

[Grant]

If its open source couldn't someone just add the plugin as part of the install? Just sayin.

[Fuzzy]

I fully intend to work out building the Schedules Direct plugin directly into the core of the product. This really should be the primary data source in open source installs, as it works around the world, and doesn't require a now defunct license, just their own personal schedules direct account, which takes it out of the project's hands. The 'old sagetv epg server' should be a non-default option going forward.

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by Grant

If its open source couldn't someone just add the plugin as part of the install? Just sayin.

Yes, I'm just pointing out that of all the "day 1 must have features" posts I've read, it's things like this that are actually "day 1" kind of things that need to be taken care of before telling new users to start using the OS version. Just building the existing source and recreating 7.1.9, etc. Those are the real "day 1" musts that have to be taken care of. With OS only users being locked out of the Sage epg server, it makes this another one of those "day 1" things that probably need to be done before new OS users should even consider grabbing an installer.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I fully intend to work out building the Schedules Direct plugin directly into the core of the product. This really should be the primary data source in open source installs, as it works around the world, and doesn't require a now defunct license, just their own personal schedules direct account, which takes it out of the project's hands. The 'old sagetv epg server' should be a non-default option going forward.

Agreed and something significant is going to have to be done to make it so because, as I feared, my epg plugin for v7 will not work with the v8 jar at all. That's probably not a bad thing because the architecture of the SD plugin really doesn't suit how I'd probably expect it to be integrated into the OS core. But either way, the plugin will never work as is with the OS/v8 jar.

[Fuzzy]

Yeah, I guess I didn't mean to say the existing SDEPG plugin be in the core - but schedules direct as a source should be in the core. If done without the extra scripting options, for instance, it should be a relatively lightweight bit of code to take the json service and convert it to sage's objects.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Slugger

Yes, I'm just pointing out that of all the "day 1 must have features" posts I've read, it's things like this that are actually "day 1" kind of things that need to be taken care of before telling new users to start using the OS version. Just building the existing source and recreating 7.1.9, etc. Those are the real "day 1" musts that have to be taken care of. With OS only users being locked out of the Sage epg server, it makes this another one of those "day 1" things that probably need to be done before new OS users should even consider grabbing an installer.

Yeah, I took it as complaining more that the planning/constructive criticism it was meant to be. When I post I replied to I thought "What else should Jeff do, the only viable options seem to be tie existing EPG data to keys or to just clobber the Sage EPG servers altogether, I don't think anyone would like the later."

But yeah, anything that can be to ease the life for new users is welcome. That said, I think truly "day 1" (morning) what we need is just installers that don't require keys. That would satisfy the existing community and potentially get back a lot of "current" users that either left entirely or just stopped following due to lack of development. Let me download the Linux version to start learning/messing with that, let me get PC clients, etc.

"Day 1" afternoon, start figuring out what really needs to be next. I think low hanging fruit, especially that which makes life easier for new users is a great place to start. Built-in SD EPG seems like it falls into that category.

But before that, what about "Day 0", at some point there's going to need to be a way to track issues/features, discuss them, and pick which ones to use. If the code's going to be in git, maybe Jeff would be open to the idea of setting up the project early (no code) so the community could start logging issues/ideas.

Wow, that went way OT, sorry about that

[starfire]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

This really should be the primary data source in open source installs, as it works around the world

Never looked into them, so you believe they would supply UK EPG listings ? Their website says "raw U.S./Canadian TV listing data".

[rkulagow]

[I work for Schedules Direct]

We have data for the following countries:

http://forums.schedulesdirect.org/vi...hp?f=16&t=2655

Region:North America
United States
Canada

Region:Europe
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Great Britain
Sweden

Region:Latin America
Argentina
Belize
Brazil
Chile
Columbia
Costa Rica
Ecuador
Guatemala
Guyana
Honduras
Mexico
Panama
Peru
Uruguay
Venezuela

Region:Caribbean
Anguila
Antigua/Barbuda
Aruba
Bahamas
Barbados
Bermuda
Bonaire, Saba, St. Eustatius
British Virgin Islands
Cayman Islands
Curacao
Dominica
Dominican Republic
Grenada
Jamaica
Puerto Rico
Saint Martin
Saint Vincent / Grenadines
St. Kitts and Nevis
St. Lucia
Trinidad and Tobago
Turks and Caicos

[starfire]

Ah OK, may give you a try then

Might be worth clarifying on your webpage.

I use XMLTV GUI, presumably I can use the NA_SD grabber within here?

[starfire]

Hmm, can't figure it out, your membership page doesn't seem to support UK / Great Britain and XMLTV GUI doesn't seem to provide a way to configure the grabbers appropriately.

[rkulagow]

The XML service only supports the U.S. and Canada. You'll need to use the JSON service to have access to everything else.

slugger's grabber, while not in the SageTV core, supports the JSON service.

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by rkulagow

The XML service only supports the U.S. and Canada. You'll need to use the JSON service to have access to everything else.

slugger's grabber, while not in the SageTV core, supports the JSON service.

My grabber only works with SageTV v7.1.9 and nothing else. It will not work with the open source version of SageTV and I have no plans to make it work with the OS version at this time, though I expect others to integrate other forms of Schedules Direct support into the open source version's core (Fuzzy, for example, is talking about such an endeavour).

[daminc]

I dont have a lot of wants...but maybe a plugin or something for 3D would be really cool.

[peternm22]

Originally Posted by Slugger

My grabber only works with SageTV v7.1.9 and nothing else. It will not work with the open source version of SageTV

Is there any reason why it wouldn't work with the initial open source release? Apart from stripping out items that require licensing (decoders, default EPG), I thought the open source version was going to be mostly 7.1.9 as it is now.