Anyone want to take ownership of any of my projects?

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by emveepee

Yup. I've actually already got the tool to import the EPG data from SageTV to NextPVR but I wasn't sure if they EULA for the data allowed it.

Martin

Rest assured, it does not. Don't worry, I won't be calling Tribune on you though.

And that's the point, with the source code, people can drop the middle man (like wiz.bin) and just directly implement whatever protocol Sage uses to talk to Sage's EPG server and fetch all the free data one wants. Again, I'd be shocked if that EPG server stays on for even a second after the source code is released.

Of course, if anyone has deep enough pockets to keep a wide open EPG server running for the "community" (i.e. the world), I suppose that would be Google.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by Slugger

Again, I'd be shocked if that EPG server stays on for even a second after the source code is released.

I was under the impression SageTV used the same EPG data as FiberTV. Can they turn off one without turning off the other?

[Slugger]

I think they can. I'd imagine Google Fiber is using a different server (or set of servers) that talk the same protocol (all fed from the same upstream source).

If not, then I imagine that's one of Jeff's todo items before he can release it. There's just no way a wide open epg source with step by step instructions on how to directly interact and pull what you will from it can be made available. Tribune just won't allow it.

[stuckless]

I guess we'll all have to wait and see what happens with EPG. Without EPG, an open source sagetv is virtually useless to me... although I don't mind paying a 3rd party for epg data, if that's an option.

I think that offering "free" epg updates (ie, like the current state of the software) would probably be a good way to attract people to the project... ie, other PVR solutions require a paid source for epg data... if google offers a "free" service it would go along way in growing the platform.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by stuckless

I guess we'll all have to wait and see what happens with EPG. Without EPG, an open source sagetv is virtually useless to me... although I don't mind paying a 3rd party for epg data, if that's an option.

+1

[pjpjpjpj]

All I know is Jeff once posted here that the EPG was not going away any time soon and that we'd receive ample warning if and when it was. It would seem that if the open sourcing was to mean the end of the free EPG, the OS announcement would have been the logical place to post that warning.

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by Slugger

And that's the point, with the source code, people can drop the middle man (like wiz.bin) and just directly implement whatever protocol Sage uses to talk to Sage's EPG server and fetch all the free data one wants. Again, I'd be shocked if that EPG server stays on for even a second after the source code is released.

Of course, if anyone has deep enough pockets to keep a wide open EPG server running for the "community" (i.e. the world), I suppose that would be Google.

I suppose it's possible that they don't open source 100% of the code. Maybe they keep some piece related to the EPG closed? Probably not, but I guess we'll see.

[Slugger]

Well the thing is, the data Sage provides comes from a commercial entity (Tribune, actually now called something else, but we all know it as Tribune) and I don't know the terms of their contract, but it's pretty safe to say Google (via Sage's inherited agreement) isn't entitled to basically republish the content verbatim for the whole world to consume at no cost.

Maybe Google will renegotiate to allow that, I doubt it. Not b/c Google can't afford it, but other clients of Tribune (such as Schedules Direct) are going to demand one hell of a discount on their contracts if their services are obsoleted because Google now provides all the same data for free to anyone willing to write a client that speaks the Google/Sage epg protocol. Unless Google basically makes up the expected lost revenue from Tribune's other clients, Tribune itself would have no interest in allowing Google to make the server open.

It's hard to imagine the OS version of Sage not including the source for the epg... I mean the epg is one of the critical pieces of any pvr app. Tough to do much when you can't directly access the epg piece of the puzzle.

On the other hand, Google might negotiate something to keep it open long term, but then you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Google is tracking every little bit of data you pull from that source and using it to update its Big Brother profile of you. Maybe that's the price to be paid for ongoing data.

As for a 3rd party source, should it be necessary, I'm not too worried. I've been running my own plugin for Schedules Direct for the better part of 3 years on my production box with no issues. Data can be had one way or the other, it's just a matter of knowing where it has to come from.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

+1

+1 +1

[mdnttoker]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

+1 +1

3

[mistergq]

Originally Posted by Slugger

Strip the licensing code out of the code base. Not sure if Jeff's going to do that ahead of time, but I doubt it.

I could be wrong but I thought Jeff said that was one of the things that he is removing. I am not sure it will officially be called Sage 8.x, but the way I read his posts is that there will be a new Sage coming with many (but not all) features of GoogleFiber.

[Fuzzy]

I think you should have threatened to leave years ago Slugger. Imagine where we'd be if you had forced Google's had into open sourcing back then!

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I think you should have threatened to leave years ago Slugger. Imagine where we'd be if you had forced Google's had into open sourcing back then!

Glad you haven't lost your sense of humor Fuzzy!

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by Slugger

Well the thing is, the data Sage provides comes from a commercial entity (Tribune, actually now called something else, but we all know it as Tribune) and I don't know the terms of their contract, but it's pretty safe to say Google (via Sage's inherited agreement) isn't entitled to basically republish the content verbatim for the whole world to consume at no cost.

Maybe Google will renegotiate to allow that, I doubt it. Not b/c Google can't afford it, but other clients of Tribune (such as Schedules Direct) are going to demand one hell of a discount on their contracts if their services are obsoleted because Google now provides all the same data for free to anyone willing to write a client that speaks the Google/Sage epg protocol. Unless Google basically makes up the expected lost revenue from Tribune's other clients, Tribune itself would have no interest in allowing Google to make the server open.

It's hard to imagine the OS version of Sage not including the source for the epg... I mean the epg is one of the critical pieces of any pvr app. Tough to do much when you can't directly access the epg piece of the puzzle.

On the other hand, Google might negotiate something to keep it open long term, but then you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Google is tracking every little bit of data you pull from that source and using it to update its Big Brother profile of you. Maybe that's the price to be paid for ongoing data.

As for a 3rd party source, should it be necessary, I'm not too worried. I've been running my own plugin for Schedules Direct for the better part of 3 years on my production box with no issues. Data can be had one way or the other, it's just a matter of knowing where it has to come from.

In any case Slugger, it'd be nice if the Schedules Direct could be implemented directly into the core so the end user doesn't even know the difference between the Sage EPG and SDirect.

[Slugger]

Yeah, I mean if it's required b/c we're losing the Sage data servers then that's probably something I'd tackle for the community. If it's not because I'm wrong and the Sage epg servers aren't going anywhere then I wouldn't bother. Instead, I'd probably incorporate some of the "extra" features of my epg plugin into the core and leave it at that. The latter being way, way, waaaaay less work than replacing the epg source completely.

[Fuzzy]

Well, I'm guessing the EPG sources in sage are separate objects, based on the way there are different sources for different countries. It might not be an issue of replacing anything, but adding another option.

[mrsupport]

Originally Posted by mdnttoker

3

me too