Help migrating to Kodi (XBMC)

[cumak]

My Sage setup has been chugging along for years and I haven't been particularly motivated to change anything. However, we're getting to the point now that we're more interested in online streaming and also need to add a few TVs. So I'm working on migrating to XBMC.

I don't want to quit SageTV cold turkey but I can't find a good way to integrate with XBMC. All I really want is for SageTV recordings to show up in the native XBMC media library so I can easily browse. I don't need full integration like scheduling recordings, etc. I can still do that through one of my TVs that has an HD200, or the webserver.

I tried this script that's supposed to create XBMC-friendly symbolic links to SageTV recordings. It seems great in theory, but for some reason Sagex-api will not respond to queries from Java. I didn't bother posting a support request because the thread has been dead for over a year. It seems those folks have all moved on and I missed the boat.

I also tried the SageTV add-on for XBMC. It's more integration than I need, but still looks good. However, it takes more than a minute each time to list my recordings and I can't figure out the problem. That delay is a definite show-stopper. I did post a request for help but that thread is dead as well. Again, it seems I missed the boat.

So does anyone have tips for watching SageTV recordings from within XBMC? I'd prefer not to have a client running XBMC and SageTV separately. I'd like the option of using a cheap set top box like the Amazon Fire TV (which I picked up today to try out), or maybe something running openELEC. But not a $300 Zbox Nano or Intel NUC because eventually I'll be rolling this out to a bunch of TVs.

Thanks.

[jchiso]

The Amazon Fire TV box should work out for you for running Kodi. I just got my FireTV Stick last week and loaded XBMC without much difficulty. I also have a couple of Raspberry Pis running XBMC (OpenELEC and RaspBMC). I haven't used the SageTV add-on for XBMC or any other integrating script, so I can't offer any suggestions in that area. At this stage I think I could live with something that associated the SageTV program names with TV episode numbers and program titles ...

[dgeezer]

If you haven't set up your fire tv yet you may want to check out this guide AFTVNews. I didn't do this on the last fire tv I bought and it updated to the latest version which is not rootable. If you care about such things. The only real advantage rooting brings for me anayway is a very clean method of booting directly in to XBMC. I use the exposed modules with an app called xbmc launcher. With this method you can navigate to any Amazon apps, including the native KFTV launcher, netflix, Pandora etc. and when you press the home button you return to XBMC.

The other program that makes all this setup a lot simpler is ADBfire. This is the easiest way, Ive found, to install xbmc and any other sideloaded apps. This installs on windows and mostly eliminates most if not all command line work.

I haven't really gotten around to trying to integrate SageTV into the firetv. Right now both of our tv's have an HD300 and the fire tv attached. I control everythin with a Logitech simple remote with smart hub. This can connect to the FireTV using bluetooth.

I'd be interested to hear your progress with this.

I've messed around with Kodi for years and the FireTV is the first device that I've ever set up for the family to use. I would say that probably 2/3 of our time in front of the TV is now on the FireTV.

BTW, I am also experimenting with switching to NPVR as my back end for recordings and live TV. This works very well so far, but I haven't quite gotten it set up for family testing.

[profit]

I am about to add 3 TV's to the house as we finish basement area. I cannot expand Sage...

Does XMBC (now Kodi) act as a Sage replacement in terms of PVR?

My setup:
HD PVR connected to cable box
HDHomerun Prime connect to cable card - not fully functional
3 HD 300's for streaming
Vista Business server with onboard raids

Can I load Kodi parallel to Sage on the same system?
What acts as HD300 replacement? - like CuBox or DIY?
How will I record content? Do my tuners integrate with Kodi?
How will I schedule recordings?
Can a Samsung TV integrate / connect to a Kodi backend with it's SmartTV?

I also use makemv. Can these files be viewed through Kodi or Kodi "extenders?"

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by cumak

I tried this script that's supposed to create XBMC-friendly symbolic links to SageTV recordings. It seems great in theory, but for some reason Sagex-api will not respond to queries from Java. I didn't bother posting a support request because the thread has been dead for over a year. It seems those folks have all moved on and I missed the boat.

I just got finished moving all my recordings to an XBMC (and other apps) friendly format using this script over the past week. I also had an issue with the sagex-api not responding. It turns out the part which is needed (sagex-services) isn't necessarily installed when you install Jetty for other things. If you have additional problems, let me know. The script works quite well.

[cumak]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I also had an issue with the sagex-api not responding. It turns out the part which is needed (sagex-services) isn't necessarily installed when you install Jetty for other things.

Skirge - thanks for the tip. I went and verified that I did have sagex-services installed, but in the process of doing so I discovered the config options. After poking around a bit, I disabled the "secure HTTP API" option, and thad did the trick. When sending queries from a web browser I never had an issue with the "username:Password" format, but for some reason it didn't like that when coming from Java. So I'm past that hurdle now. Thanks! I will continue to play with it as I have time during the week and post back here if I need more help.

One thing I wanted to ask, though, are you doing symbolic links or archiving? My Sage server is still running WinXP so symbolic links are not supported. When you archive using this script, it's creating an XBMC-friendly duplicate file, correct? Do you still need to keep the original to retain the full functionality within SageTV, or does Sage now see the archive version?

Originally Posted by dgeezer

If you haven't set up your fire tv yet you may want to check out this guide AFTVNews. I didn't do this on the last fire tv I bought and it updated to the latest version which is not rootable. If you care about such things.

It's funny you mentioned that. I've been afraid to turn it on for that excact reason, as I contemplate the advantages of rooting. So you have a box that is rooted and another that is not? Are there any significant software updates that the rooted box is missing out on? If not, then I like the option of rooting for the reasons you stated.

Another concern I have is that I read somewhere that the FireTV cannot decode MPEG2 in hardware. Almost all of my SageTV recordings are MPEG2 (my tuner is an HDHR2), and I'm wondering how the FireTV will handle them. Have you had any issues watching MPEG2 through FireTV/XBMC?

Thank you.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by cumak

Skirge - thanks for the tip. I went and verified that I did have sagex-services installed, but in the process of doing so I discovered the config options. After poking around a bit, I disabled the "secure HTTP API" option, and thad did the trick. When sending queries from a web browser I never had an issue with the "username:Password" format, but for some reason it didn't like that when coming from Java. So I'm past that hurdle now. Thanks! I will continue to play with it as I have time during the week and post back here if I need more help.

One thing I wanted to ask, though, are you doing symbolic links or archiving? My Sage server is still running WinXP so symbolic links are not supported. When you archive using this script, it's creating an XBMC-friendly duplicate file, correct? Do you still need to keep the original to retain the full functionality within SageTV, or does Sage now see the archive version?

Glad you got it working. I had the same issue and that would have been my next thing for you to check. I am not doing symlinks. I just had the script rename and move all the TV shows. Once that was done, Sage saw the original ones were gone and that there were new shows elsewhere and everything was fine. Just an FYI that I'm not actually using XBMC; I needed to move my stuff to this format for another reason.

[dgeezer]

The unrooted Fire TV is actually the last one I purchased. It came from staples and had the original firmware. Without thinking I plugged it in and let it update. It went straight to the latest (unrootable) firmware. I later read the guide which I linked to above and probably could have prevented this update.

There seems to be no difference in playback or general usability between the two. The AFTVNews site has links to pre-rooted updates which can be installed on a rooted device to keep it up to date. My rooted box does have the latest firmware and the updated netflix app.

If you want to use it solely as an XBMC box then the root method of booting directly in to XBMC is better, but on the non rooted box I installed autopilot and have this set to boot straight to xbmc. This works fine unless you exit xbmc. Then you have to either go through the apps menu or reboot to get back to XBMC. The true killer feature in my opinion is that you can launch netflix or pandora from the xbmc favorites menu and when you close these apps you return to XBMC. I hope that eventually I can retire my HD300s and have all my playback on one device

Mpeg2 playback is still somewhat lacking. You will need to go in to the video settings on XBMC, switch to advanced settings at the bottom, go to acceleration and turn off mediacodec. Currently I am using an HDHomerun with an antenna only. All my recordings will play, but there is no deinterlacing. Therefore, all the stations which broadcast in 1080i show a bit of blockiness on fast action scenes such as football. It's not that noticeable to me but it drives some people crazy. Also, the ticker across the bottom of the local news is a little jumpy. This is way more noticeable on the big tv 70" than the 42".

[cumak]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Once that was done, Sage saw the original ones were gone and that there were new shows elsewhere and everything was fine.

When you pointed Sage to the "dropbox" directory (with the newly created files), did you set it up as a video recording directory or as a media center import directory?

Originally Posted by dgeezer

Mpeg2 playback is still somewhat lacking. You will need to go in to the video settings on XBMC, switch to advanced settings at the bottom, go to acceleration and turn off mediacodec. Currently I am using an HDHomerun with an antenna only. All my recordings will play, but there is no deinterlacing. Therefore, all the stations which broadcast in 1080i show a bit of blockiness on fast action scenes such as football.

Sounds like it's worth a try. I suppose if I'm not happy with the MPEG2 playback then I can still use Plex with the FireTV. That would move the heavy lifting to the Plex server, right? I'd still prefer XBMC but as I have time maybe I'll try both options.

Thank you both for your help.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by cumak

When you pointed Sage to the "dropbox" directory (with the newly created files), did you set it up as a video recording directory or as a media center import directory?

It's an import directory. You'll need to schedule this script to run on some frequency, so that new recordings are archived and moved.

[wayner]

Any reason why you guys chose Kodi rather than Plex?

[dgeezer]

Several things in my setup:

Plex on the Fire TV won't do audio pass through. My amp and sound bar (2 different TVs) always played back in stereo only. I got no surround sound on my amp. Maybe, this has been fixed by now.

Plex doesn't fast forward or skip well at all on my fire tv. Also, afaik, it has no support for comskip files. I don't actually use the fire tv for playing back my TV recordings yet, but I hope to eventually. I do have NPVR working with good comskip support on my test box. I'm using the x-newa plugin for xbmc since the built in pvr app in kodi doesn't support comskip either.

I don't know enough about plex and if skinning is even possible but I use the amber skin on xbmc which can look a lot like my sage tv setup running diamond, oops I mean gemstone. I have a vertical menu down the left side, with several custom shortcuts, and the family can cope with this.

Netflix The Amazon netflix app is great. It looks like another menu item on kodi homescreen. With Amber you can place favorite apps on the home menu. When you exit netflix you go right back to the kodi home screen. Since plex is a native app and shows up on the amazon home screen this probably wouldn't be a big deal to some.

Don't get me wrong I think plex is a great system. I really like it's server/client setup, one place to manage metadata and watched status tracking across all your clients.

[wayner]

I will have to take another look at XBMC. I like a lot of things about Plex but I do find that the playback struggles when you SkipFwd in the files. This is particularly the case with HD-PVR recordings, they become unusable after a few skips. It is a shame since there is a lot to like about Plex, especially the client/server nature and all of the client side apps, like iOS, Win8, XB1, XB360, Roku, RPi, etc.

What version of Kodi are you using?

[cumak]

I considered Plex, and one of the big factors for me is that you need a server running 24/7. I would eventually like to shut down my Sage server for good and move all of my media to a NAS, and have the clients do all of the decoding. This is how Kodi works. No server, the clients simply pull content from local network storage or the web. If I want to keep a DVR in the system, it can be cheap and relatively low power becasue it won't need to transcode anything. Right now the only recording I do is OTA with a HDHR.

I've been playing with Kodi + FireTV for a few days now and so far it's been great. It does require a lot of tinkering, but nothing that a Sage user would be afraid of. I started pulling my Sage recordings into Kodi and once I figured it out they integrate very well. Plus, there are a lot of great add-ons out there.

[Taddeusz]

But does Kodi allow you to play your media away from the home? That is the feature of Plex that I use the most. I sync to my iPad the content that I will watch during my lunches so I'm not eating up my employer's internet. I can also sync content for the kiddos to watch on long trips so I'm not using up my mobile data.

Plex may require an "always on" computer but mine runs along side SageTV that is already on all the time.

I used to be concerned about the power usage but then I realized that running my SageTV machine doesn't really add that much to our bill. The AC & refrigerator consume far more power. The SageTV machine ends up being a drop in the bucket. At least here in Oklahoma City our electricity is $0.11 per kWh.

[wayner]

It seems to me like Kodi is better if you have few devices and mainly care about direct streaming at home whereas Plex is better if you have lots of clients on many platforms and want to do remote streaming.

[Skirge01]

Between data caps, overages, throttling, and crappy upload speeds, streaming from home isn't the best option for a lot of people. For the rare times we do stream while away, it's still easier to plan ahead a little bit and bring along what you want to watch or stream from Netflix or Amazon during a trip.

I hate to derail this thread even further, but when/where do people stream things most frequently? For us, we mainly watch TV at home. If we're out, it's usually on some sort of a trip, where the entire purpose--in our mind, at least--is to get away from the usual routine, the mundane, the monotony.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Between data caps, overages, throttling, and crappy upload speeds, streaming from home isn't the best option for a lot of people.

That's true but things are getting better on this front. Here in Canada we used to have really low caps, but I now have a high end internet service from my local cable company with 250 down, 20 up and a 1TB monthly cap. So my internet service shouldn't be an issue. And think about people, like Brent, with Google Fiber that have 1GBbps bidirectional speeds.

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I hate to derail this thread even further, but when/where do people stream things most frequently? For us, we mainly watch TV at home. If we're out, it's usually on some sort of a trip, where the entire purpose--in our mind, at least--is to get away from the usual routine, the mundane, the monotony.

To be honest, I don't stream from Plex a ton, but I do it occasionally. I really wish that Sage had better streaming, like for 1080i content, as streaming sports when I am travelling is something that I definitely like to do. I may end up getting a Slingbox and hooking that up to a spare HD-200 to facilitate streaming of TV content. I have issues with Plex playback of HD-PVR content and that is why Slingbox may work better.

To derail the thread even more, I am currently implementing a Car Media server. It will be an old laptop running Plex Media Server that will serve up content to mobile devices in the car or play on the car's built-in AV system. This will be an old laptop with an external 2TB hard drive. I may also install SageTV on the laptop to use when we are on vacation as it gives a very portable SageTV solution.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by wayner

That's true but things are getting better on this front. Here in Canada we used to have really low caps, but I now have a high end internet service from my local cable company with 250 down, 20 up and a 1TB monthly cap. So my internet service shouldn't be an issue. And think about people, like Brent, with Google Fiber that have 1GBbps bidirectional speeds.

I'd rather not think about those people. I don't see those kinds of things coming to me anytime soon.

To derail the thread even more, I am currently implementing a Car Media server. It will be an old laptop running Plex Media Server that will serve up content to mobile devices in the car or play on the car's built-in AV system. This will be an old laptop with an external 2TB hard drive. I may also install SageTV on the laptop to use when we are on vacation as it gives a very portable SageTV solution.

You probably know enough about this, but you aren't planning to use a 3.5" mechanical drive in a vehicle, are you? I don't think it would hold up to the vibrations and bumps. Other than that, it sounds pretty cool.

[wayner]

I have replaced the system drive in the laptop with a SSD for performance reasons but the media drive will be an external 2TB 2.5" mechanical drive. I will likely fasten it to the top of the laptop case with heavy duty velcro. I have been over the vibration/bump discussion in other forums and I don't think it will be a big deal, I think temperature may be a bigger issue as going from below freezing to room temperature (and vice versa) may cause condensation and other issues with the drive.

FYI - For the last five+ years I have had iPod Classics in my car. They have mechanical hard drives, albeit smaller at 1.8" and with less mass, but what's the difference between that and a 2.5" drive? And I have also occasionally used laptops with internal mechanical drives in a vehicle without issue.