Sage and DirecTV

[jillsy]

I'm not quite sure where to place this thread, and I know related issues have been discussed in these forums, but I wish to get some feedback regarding Sage and DirecTV.

I have used Sage for years with two tuner cards: one connected to my cable company's STB (USB-UIRT changes channels) and one with a splitter connected to my non-digital cable feed. With this setup, I can record three shows at once.

I just received a letter from my cable company that ALL TVs must have STBs by November 18. With my current setup, I will be able to record just one channel through the existing STB. I could add another STB, but I am really miffed about giving my crappy cable company even more money each month.

So I'm thinking of switching to DirecTV. In the past, I have read accounts here and elsewhere about Sage having issues with DirecTV. I can't imagine that's still true, though, since I see users here who use DirecTV.

Can anyone tell me what I might expect from my Sage setup if I switch to DirecTV? Will I still be able to get EPG service? Will I be able to use my USB-UIRT to control a DirecTV STB? I would think there shouldn't be any major issues, but I'd appreciate any feedback from Sage/DirecTV users.

Thank you.

[graywolf]

Can anyone tell me what I might expect from my Sage setup if I switch to DirecTV? Will I still be able to get EPG service? Will I be able to use my USB-UIRT to control a DirecTV STB? I would think there shouldn't be any major issues, but I'd appreciate any feedback from Sage/DirecTV users.

No issue with DirecTV

EPG Service would be the same as before. You would probably need to change the tuner setup settings so that you pull the DirecTV EPG.

1 thing to be aware of, you will need 1 STB per tuner which means additional fees.

1st STB no charge, additional STBs have a monthly fee

[KeithAbbott]

Depending on your cable company, a cablecard solution may work for you.

[jillsy]

Thanks so much for your feedback, graywolf and Keith. I know I'll have to add an another STB if I want to record multiple channels. I'm really bummed about this. The main reason I've stayed with my cable company the past few years has been the ability to still get several channels without the need for a STB. That allowed me to record 3 shows at once with SageTV. Now I won't be able to do that without adding more STBs and paying more money each month. My cable company has just taken away the only good reason for me to stay with them.

Regardless of which company I choose, my current SageTV setup will have to change. I'm saddened by it, but there's not much I can do. At least DirecTV's DVR service is better than my cable company's. Since I will likely have to rely on that more now, I need something better than my cable company offers.

Thanks to your feedback, at least I know I should be able to use Sage with DirecTV. I'll just have to rearrange my recording schedule and bring other DVRs into the mix. My cable company's STBs include cable card support, but the company does not utilize them in my area, so I don't think that's an option for me.

Again, thank you both for your input. I appreciate your help and advice.

[UgaData]

Keep in mind some channels may not be available from the satellite providers. I realize my first thought was about Dish dropping the Turner channels but IIRC DirecTV doesn't have AMC.

If you don't watch/record shows on those channels it doesn't matter and even if you do, it may be possible to get the shows another way.

I have to agree with the cablecard suggestion, not that I am trying to keep you tied to your cable provider, but double check on whether or not they support cablecards. The upside being you can have from 3 up to 6 tuners for 1 cablecard and no STB needed and the rental fee is around $1 to $2 a month.

[BobPhoenix]

I use HTTP tunning with my DirecTV HD boxes (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...9&postcount=28) and serial with the SD box (built into SageTV).

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by UgaData

Keep in mind some channels may not be available from the satellite providers. I realize my first thought was about Dish dropping the Turner channels but IIRC DirecTV doesn't have AMC.

AMC is available on DirecTV. I almost never watch it but it is available and in HD on channel 254.

[UgaData]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

AMC is available on DirecTV. I almost never watch it but it is available and in HD on channel 254.

Well, I obviously didn't remember correctly . My apologies I certainly don't like being the source of F.U.D.

I just remember one of the satellite providers having a dispute with AMC over the fees they charged. At the time, AMC made reference to it on their website as well.

[jillsy]

Hi all and thanks for all the additional advice. I will have to check with my cable company to see if they do now support CableCARDs in my area. I did inquire about it in the past and there was no support in my area even though the company has information on its website about CableCARDs and leasing them. I am encouraged by the fact that the newer STB in my living room does have a CableCARD inside. The older STBs in my home do not as far as I can tell, although they do have DVR capabilities. It is frustrating that the STB has the ability to tune two channels at once (for DVR purposes), but I don't see any way of tapping into more than one STB channel from my Sage box.

So, next question: if I am able to lease a CableCARD, how would I integrate it into my Sage box? My cable company's website discusses their use in CableCARD-ready TVs, which I do not have. How else can they be used?

As for tuning, I have never used anything other than USB-UIRT. I don't recall the other options I was given when setting up my sources. If I were to try HTTP or serial tuning, would I set up the corresponding source and expect to see appropriate setup options for these tuning methods along the way? Do I need additional plugins other than the files in the thread linked to by BobPhoenix? I am using SageTV 7.

I was looking over DirecTV's lineups last night and I could get most or all of my favorite channels at a cheaper rate than I'm currently paying my cable company. The only channel I wouldn't be able to get is MeTV since it's a sub-channel of my local NBC affiliate. I could break down and get an antenna for that, though.

[KeithAbbott]

I can't answer your specific questions about cablecard setup in SageTV, since my cable provider flags almost all of the channels in a way that will not work with SageTV.

What I can tell you is that there is two things that you need to find out before you can determine if cablecard will work in your setup: one is obviously whether your cable provider allows use of cablecards to begin with. Most do, and you mentioned in your post that one of your STBs has a cablecard in it, so most likely your cable provider allows them.

The second thing that you need to verify is that the channels that you are interested in recording/viewing are flagged as "Copy Freely". When you talk with your cable provider, ask them about the CCI flag, if you speak with someone knowledgeable, they should be able to tell you how they set the flags. There may also be a way that you can determine it yourself, many cable boxes have a maintenance mode that allows you to view CCI flag information by channel. The only setting that will work in SageTV is copy freely (0x00), anything else will not work using a cablecard in SageTV.

It might help if you tell us who your cable provider is, for example if it is Comcast there are many on this forum that have Comcast working with a cablecard solution. And I am incredibly jealous of every single one of them.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by jillsy

It is frustrating that the STB has the ability to tune two channels at once (for DVR purposes), but I don't see any way of tapping into more than one STB channel from my Sage box.

You'll just use regular STBs if you continue using Sage. No point paying for something Sage will be providing you.

I was looking over DirecTV's lineups last night and I could get most or all of my favorite channels at a cheaper rate than I'm currently paying my cable company. The only channel I wouldn't be able to get is MeTV since it's a sub-channel of my local NBC affiliate. I could break down and get an antenna for that, though.

Do keep in mind that (like every company out there), the advertised prices do not include MANY other fees you already see on your cable bill or the price you'll be paying once the promo is over. Make certain you take that under consideration. My current breakdown is attached. You can compare that to what they're offering online. If you get one of their DVRs, there's a monthly fee for that, too.

[jillsy]

Thank you for your detailed response, Keith. Since I posted last, I have been off researching this CableCARD thing, beginning with a search on this forum. I am intrigued by this idea not just in relation to my SageTV, but because I could possibly ditch a cable box or two rather than have to take on one or more additional boxes.

I am concerned about this "copy freely" thing. I watch quite a few HBO shows, and I'm thinking that could likely be a problem channel. I did see a reviewer at Newegg stating he was able to watch HBO with a Hauppauge DCR-2650 using a Comcast CableCARD, but I have Charter. I'll probably have to call to find out about copy freely channels. The Charter site also discusses the need for a HD receiver and/or tuning adapter for CableCARD customers in Switched Digital Video areas. I was looking at the SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime and it does have a USB port for a tuning adapter.

From what I've read in this forum, it looks like I would need to install SageDCT in order to use the HDHomeRun Prime with my SageTV. Has anyone here used SageDCT?

I am a little confused about how copy freely affects just watching (not recording) a show/channel. Currently I can record just one premium channel at once through my Sage box connected to a STB. This isn't a big problem now, so it wouldn't be if I switched to CableCARD and kept the existing STB connected to my Sage box. But are you saying I wouldn't even be able to watch non-copy freely channels on devices utilizing CableCARD? For instance, if I tried streaming TV from a HDHomeRun Prime to a DLNA device in my home, would I not be able to even watch a channel like HBO?

And Skirge01, thank you for posting your DirecTV bill breakdown. I am looking at their lineups and calculating what my bill would actually be after 3 and 12 months. They offer premium channels free for 3 months, and an overall package discount for 12 months. I also have to find out what my Internet/phone bill would be through Charter since I will have to stay with them for those services. I'm sure the individual charges will go up for those because I'll be bundling just two services rather than three.

[KryptoNyte]

If you're going to consider SageDCT and the cablecard option, how do you figure to watch SageTV on the various televisions in your home? Do you have HD200/HD300 extenders to put beside these televisions, or possibly a computer beside each TV running SageTV client? Are these all High Definition flat panel TV's?

[jillsy]

Hi KryptoNyte,

I have a SageTV HD Theater 300 in my living room, and a MediaMVP in my computer room. We use those to watch SageTV recordings in those rooms. The Sage box itself is connected to the TV in our basement rec room.

If I do get a HDHomeRun Prime and successfully connect it to my Sage box, I could move either my living-room or computer-room STB to our workout room, where we have a TV with no STB. That would save us from having to acquire an additional STB for that TV. I'll probably have to get the cable guy here to make some signal adjustments, but I've been meaning to get him here anyway to check into some reception issues we've been having.

I'm still torn about what to do (DirecTV vs CableCARD), and the decision could be made for me if I find out Charter does not lease CableCARDs in my area or if I will have issues watching certain channels via CableCARD.

[FriscoJohn]

I have an HDHRPrime interfacing with Sage via SageDCT and it generally works well. I'm fortunate that my cable company marks all but the premium channels as "copy freely". However, HBO and the other premiums are definitely not watchable in Sage as the HDHRPrime will not pass these through due to their copy protection.

The good news is that if you have an HDHRPrime you can watch all your subscribed channels, including HBO and the other premium channels, using Windows Media Center. This will also let you record them. You can switch between WMC and Sage as needed depending on what you want to watch.

The problem with WMC is its terrible user interface. You won't want to use it for anything that you can watch in Sage. The other limiting thing about WMC is that it will only use an Xbox as an extender, so you'll have to get an Xbox (I believe used Xbox 360's run less than $100) unless you want to watch on your computer monitor. Or you could do as I do and get an HDMI splitter and an amplified HDMI cable (available up to 75 feet in length) and use it to connect your computer's video output to your TV.

[UgaData]

Originally Posted by jillsy

I just received a letter from my cable company that ALL TVs must have STBs by November 18.

Did the letter say you need a STB or did they say they are going all digital?

If they indicate that all channels will be digital from now on, I'm pretty sure you would be OK as long as you have ATSC tuners connected to your cable. On the other hand, if they are encrypting all channels then an STB would be needed or something to decrypt the signal (cablecard).

I could be wrong on this and others I hope will set me straight if I am .

I am concerned about this "copy freely" thing. I watch quite a few HBO shows, and I'm thinking that could likely be a problem channel. I did see a reviewer at Newegg stating he was able to watch HBO with a Hauppauge DCR-2650 using a Comcast CableCARD, but I have Charter.

Do you currently record HBO or premium channels with SageTV? The only way I am aware that SageTV can record premium channels is using composite, s-video, or component out from the STB to a capture device. Again, if I have this wrong, hopefully others will set this straight.

However, since you already have a DVR from the cable provider, you could use the DVR to record HBO and other premium channels. Not the ideal solution but it would work. You would be limited to where you could view the premium recordings but it would work.

[jillsy]

Hi UgaData,

Yes, the letter states they are "going 100% digital," and also states any TVs not currently connected to STBs will need to be connected by November 18.

My Sage box has one tuner card connected to a STB via S-Video, and I record from HBO, etc. that way. That will stay the same, so I will still be able to record one "premium" program at a time just as I have for the past few years with Sage.

My other tuner card is not connected to a STB and just tunes the channels below 100. It has a splitter so it can tune two channels at once. So the two tuner cards combined allow me to record three shows at once (one premium and two regular). After November 18, the splitter tuner card will no longer function as it does now, and, unless I add something, I will be able to record only one show at a time with Sage.

Charter is offering one STB or CableCARD free of charge for one year as part of this change. Assuming they support CableCARD in my area (they didn't in the past), I am leaning toward acquiring a CableCARD and a HDHomeRun Prime. I'll still be able to record just one premium show at a time with Sage, but I will be able to record up to four shows at a time altogether. I could also use the SageTV HD Theater 300 in my living room to watch TV, allowing me to move the living-room STB to our workout room, which does not currently have a STB.

If the CableCARD/Prime thing works out, I hope to work toward getting rid of most of my STBs. Not only would it be cheaper, it would be great not to have so many big, power-hungry boxes all over my house.

If it doesn't work out, I may take the plunge and move to DirecTV. If I must have all these boxes anyway, it would be nice to have a better DVR system, and hopefully better reception, than Charter offers.

[KryptoNyte]

If I had the opportunity to go with Charter in my area using Cablecard and Prime, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'm sick of this convoluted Time Warner system where only a few rare local stations are copy-freely, and everything else has to come through my (1) HD-PVR + Set-top-box rental.

Keep in mind, there are (2) things that hinder Sage with regard to CableTV. First there is encryption, which SageDCT+Cablecard will resolve, then there is the issue of CCI flags, which only Windows Media Center can resolve if the channel is anything other than copy-freely (or your component solution for premiums, one tuner at a time with Sage). As others have mentioned, Charter leaves pretty much everything except the premiums copy-freely, so that's good.

I had my problems getting Charter up and running for a relative with the Prime devices, but after troubleshooting, it appears to be resolved and the system seems to be running smoothly at this point (6 tuners in all).

It's also worth mentioning that you can usually grab the occasional HD200 on Ebay for $125 or less, and if you do the math on that vs. set-top-box rental, you can pay for that HD200 pretty quick. I would personally procure all the hardware, and then wait until the digital changeover has occurred, because you'll probably have a little issue with the channel line-up that you select (old charter vs. new charter).

[jillsy]

I read a post on another forum (Silicon Dust, I think) about Charter and Comcast leaving most channels as copy freely and Time-Warner flagging just about everything as copy once or copy never. I'm not thrilled with Charter, but Time-Warner seems positively evil based on what I've heard. There are rumors in my area that Charter may turn this outlet over to TW at the end of its current contract (TW controls outlets north and west of mine), but I'm thinking TW should be Comcast by then.

I am thinking about getting some sort of media player/extender to use on our workout-room TV: something compatible with Sage or at least with the Prime. I hate to waste one of our STBs on a TV that's only used 1-2 hours per day, so picking up a cheap HD200 might just be the ticket. I've been quite pleased with my HD300. Are there big differences between the two models?

One thing I'm really bummed about is the recent loss of WOL capabilities on my Sage box. The original build used a 2005 Intel motherboard and WOL worked quite well--only occasional random wake-ups--and I loved that my HD300 could wake the box up on its own. I rebuilt the system a few weeks ago using a newer motherboard. I tried different settings and even different LAN drivers, but I just couldn't get it to cooperate with WOL enabled. It either wouldn't go to sleep at all or, even worse, it would enter a rapid on/off sequence and I would have to turn off the power switch. I saw several similar complaints on various tech forums and the advice was always the same: disable WOL. Not helpful for someone who actually wants to use WOL. I wasn't thrilled about the issue, but I didn't see it as a huge deal. I'm going to be missing it a lot more now, though, if I'm going to be depending more on my Sage box for live TV.

Anyway, I'm going to call Charter soon to get some concrete info on CableCARD in my area. Hopefully I'll get good news and then get the ball rolling on this Prime thing. Thanks again for all your helpful advice and info.

[jchiso]

I don't know what your local cable company offers, but I'm guessing it's not as much as DirecTV. Whenever I travel and am forced to deal with local cable providers I just about go nuts. I usually try placeshifting with Sage, but that's often dicey, given the crappy wireless in most hotels and vacation rentals.

I use a combination of DirecTV STBs, HD Homeruns (for OTA), and Hauppauge HD-DVR USB capture devices. The systems perform flawlessly, and have done so for years. The DirecTV channel lineup works the same as any other, and you can remove any channels to which you don't subscribe from the Guide.