Newbie Q's regarding vid cards/TV out

[dbeach]

Hey guys-

I spent several hours with BTV and now with Sage getting TV picture on my computer screen and trying to get it out to the TV. This with the PVR-250 which, I now understand, doesn't have a TV out. I thought the coaxial...never mind.

So, I now have my sights set on the PVR-350, which does seem to have the TV-out that I need. My question is: Are all of these people using the 250 for encoding, using another card for decoding and TV out? What is optimal? Will the 350 give me the functionality an quality that I want?

Factors to keep in mind: My box has 3 pci slots, trying to keep it small as I am planning this as a dedicated HTPC, a full replacement for the TIVO. It has a SOYO k7VEMPRO MB with onboard video (which will not even be in use as I won't have a monitor connected once it's up and running, I will control remotely). The other 2 PCI slots will have 1394, and 54g wireless pci card.

If necessary, I could get another board altogether and build on that, but this one is fairly compact (which is a plus) and available.

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. No offense will be taken if you have to get real simple with me.

Thanks!!

[justme]

If you have a TV that is HD(it has a VGA/DVI or component input) input capable then most people would definitely say go with a good Videocard and use it to feed you HDTV. I don't have HDTV so I'll leave that to others. Also do some searching and you'll find lots of posts on this issue.

If you have a TV that is only SD(RCA or SVHS inputs only) capable then the 350 may be the way to go. It's the best quality you can get for a SD TV using SageTV(I'm not counting the Xcard since it lacks the ability to do Sage's UI).

One thing about the 350's output is that it is really only for Sage(PVR250/350) recorded shows. By this I mean it won't playback video for Divx/Xvid, Windows media files, and perhaps most importantly DVDs. There are some ways around the DVD issue but the actual fact is that the 350's decoder can't handle the video encryption(CSS) used by DVDs. Also the 350's audio decoder can't handle the audio format used by most DVDs. There were also some very bad cases of SageTV instabilty when the 350's SageTV UI option was turned on, with certian motherboard chipsets. This seems to be largely resolved with Hauppauge's latest beta drivers. So if you have a SD TV and don't really want to watch DVDs or AVIs then the 350 is the way to go. If you want to watch DVDs or lots of AVIs then stick with the 250 and get a good videocard for SD TV out. I believe the FX5200 is populiar, but others with persoanl experience can tell you for sure. You will likely need to tune the videocard more than you would a 350's output but depending on your desires/hardware that may be your only good choice.

Good luck

[dbeach]

Excellent info, thank you.

I would really like to incorporate DVD play in this and replace the stand-alone DVD player as well as the TIVO. Per your suggestion I should probably keep the PVR250 and use another card for the video out.

Considering that, and considering that I will not be playing any games, etc on this system, (or even be using a monitor) does anyone have other suggestions for cards that will work best for me? I'd prefer to spend as little as possible to get a good quality SD signal.

[stanger89]

You're looking at needing a some sort of PCI card with TV-out. To do that you either need a Video card with TV out or a dedicated decoder (Xcard).

Here's what I would do in your possition. Get yourself a new motherboard with a TV-out, preferably an nForce2 IGP board, the Chaintek 7NIF2 looks like it has a TV out. This is probably the most cost effective solution, you'd have a hard time finding just a Video card for less than this whole mobo.

[kny3twalker]

to get around the DVD problem you would have to rip the DVDs and use your on board sound card's output instead of the pvr 350s
then you would have to sync them using the audio delay feature built into Sage
I still it would be nice to have a DVD ripper integrated into Sage for the pvr 350 users

[cmaffia]

I've used Sage TV with my PVR-250 MCE using both a PCI EVGA
MX4000 Nvidia with SVIDEO Out and a ChainTech FX5200 AGP with SVIDEO Out.
The 5200 is the better of the two but they are both excellent for very good quality output. DVD output through these cards are excellent.

http://evga.com/products/moreinfo.as...128-P1-NV94-LX

http://www.chaintech.com.tw/tw/eng/p...o=14&PISNo=300

[dbeach]

This is all great info. The motherboard looks like a good option. I am also considering these cards which range from $44 to $55 on NewEgg. Any feedback on these cards would be appreciated. Any chipsets or brands to be wary of?

SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 7000(VE), 64MB DDR

XFX NVIDIA GeForce MX4000, 64MB DDR, 128 bit, Model "PVT98LQT"

Jaton nVIDIA GeForce2 MX400, 64MB DDR, 64-bit, Model "VIDEO-118PCI-64DDR-TV"

APOLLO GeForce4 MX440 Video Card, 64MB DDR, Model MX440 64MB

CHAINTECH nVIDIA GeForce4 MX440-8X, 64MB DDR, 64-bit, Model "P-G486"

Rosewill nVIDIA GeForce MX4000,128MB DDR, 64-bit, Model "e-GeForce MX 4000 Light Version(128-P1-NV94)"

Jaton nVIDIA GeForce4 MX440, 64MB DDR, Model "Video-198PCI-64TV"

SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9200SE Video Card, 128MB DDR, 64-bit,

eVGA nVIDIA GeForce MX4000, 128MB DDR, 64-bit,Model "e-GeForce MX 4000 Light Version(128-P1-NV94)"

[cmaffia]

I am partial to the Chaintech FX5200 AGP with SVIDEO and DVI Option. Especially since I got it at a great price 55bux

[teedublu]

Go with a FX5200 (Fanless -- the Chaintec looks fine. I've got an MSI, basically the same thing.

I don't like the ATI chipsets for SD TV-Out. I've tried a few...

Set the FX5200 for 720 x 480 (60HZ of course) 32bit color.
Adjust the "screen size" using windows desktop as a background til the TV screen is filled. You'll probably loose some on the sides -- that's normal/typical TV overscan. Within Sage you adjust the OSD/GUI to fit/correct for the overscan.

TW

[kny3twalker]

the nvidia TV outs are definitely better

[garyc]

Originally posted by kny3twalker
the nvidia TV outs are definitely better

Interesting -- particularly in light of your system specs, which show you're using an ATI Radeon 9600XT. I have two questions r.e. your 9600XT:

(1) do you find the fan to be noticeably loud?

(2) is the S-video output "good" ?? (I presume you don't consider it as good as nvidia -- but is it "good enough")

[kny3twalker]

yeah it is good enough but found the picture quality to be better off the nvidias'
the fan I heardly hear if I even do
it must be quite quiet

the nvidia's TV out is also more supported as I found in the past
with tools and more users modifying the bios and such

[jreichen]

Can you display the Sage UI on the TV when using something other than the 350?

[stanger89]

If by something other than the 350 you mean a video card yes. If you mean the Xcard then no.

[mls]

Now I know you're trying to keep things simple and work within what you have... but where SageTV really shines (and beats the heck out of a Tivo) is with multiple tuner cards.

So, if you want to do a more advanced setup, I'd say just build another computer that has a motherboard with more PCI slots (video card on that machine don't matter). Pop in 3 or 4 PVR-250's, hide it away somewhere and then network to it with 100Mps Ethernet (not wireless) from you current machine with SageTV Client.

Then either get a good vid card for you current machine, or put a 350 in it for TV out.

Could also use the 350 networked back as yet another tuner with SageRecorder also if you wanted to.

SageTV Client would give you most control of all the SageTV part of things from a smaller computer.

Sorry, I just LOVE having 4 tuners for those weekends when they put everything on I want to watch all in the same time slots

[jreichen]

When using a video card's TV out, does the whole windows desktop show up on the tv, or just the contents of Sage's window?

[mls]

Originally posted by jreichen
When using a video card's TV out, does the whole windows desktop show up on the tv, or just the contents of Sage's window?

Depends what video card you get. If it only has monitor (VGA) and S-video connectors you'll end up with everything (desktop and sagetv) on both.

If you get a better vid card that is designed for "dual" monitor or video output, then you can have the desktop on a monitor and SageTV on the TV (which is how I do things).

There are advantages and disadvantages to either way of doing things. In general, there is too much data (resolution) for the desktop to show up well (usually blurry and hard to read) on a TV. Going the other way, a "standard" TV signal doesn't have enough information to scale up well to the resolution of a monitor, so it ends up somewhat blurred that way.

That's why I'm set up the way I am... keep the high res stuff on the monitor and the lower res stuff going out to the TV.

Now, if you have a HDTV or a Projector, then there are other options with video cards for that use (such as DVI output).

The choice of a video card is quite probibly the most difficult decision to make depending on your needs (and/or future plans). If you're not into 3D gaming, then you don't need the overly expensive top of the line.

Most people seem to recommend either a nVidia 5700 or an ATI 9600. I'd say go for an nVidia (only because I haven't been all that impressed with the stability of ATI's drivers through the years). But, you can get good results with either brand as long as you pick one that matches your needs.

[mls]

Oh, forgot to mention... If you get a vid card with dual monitor output capability you have a choice of desktop either output and nothing on the other. Or, desktop out on both, or desktop on one with an "extended" desktop on the other (which is where I have SageTV on mine).

Too many options, sorry if I'm confusing you.

[jreichen]

mls, I already have a 9600SE and am getting tired of the 350 problems so I decided to try the TV out on the 9600. I followed your instructions for setting up dual monitor. It was a bit tricky because I don't have a monitor on the machine so it wouldn't let me set up the TV on the second screen. Once I brought my monitor down from upstairs and hooked it up, I was able to get it running. At first, it worked well. But after a while it stopped playing audio or video. I just get a black screen. I'm using the default video renderer (overlay and VMR9 both give me errors so I can't use them) and the InterVideo NonCSS Decoder. I tried rebooting. Any ideas?

Also, when I was using the 350, I could enable Hardware Decoding Only and it wouldn't play the video on the desktop. Which greatly increased the controllability of the machine over the network. Now, with the 9600, it always plays the video on the desktop (that is, when the video was working before I started getting the black screen).

[jreichen]

If Sage is in full screen mode when I shut it down, when I restart it it takes up both desktops. Is there a way to make it only take up the second desktop?