Adding a second Tuner Card?

[jphhughes]

Ok I am getting read for my next adventure by installing a second tuner card in my SageTV/PC. It is a Hauppauge 250/16. I currently have the beta drivers installed which fixed the 350 UI out problems and should allow mixed cards in the same PC. So my question is do I just install the 250 and when I get the new hardware message from windows just point it to the beta drivers and have it install them and then add the second card to Sage or is their another procedure you would recommend to avoid and problems. Do I need to do the Hwclear thing and re-install both cards?

Also I plan to use a second STB so I can record one channel while watching another. This leads to another question. I currently use USB-UIRT to control the existing STB what suggestions do you have for controlling the second STB. DO I need to get into the GIrder world or can the USB-UIRT control both boxes?

Thanks for any advise.

[jphhughes]

Well I finally got around to trying this and things have not gone well. I installed the 250 using the same beta drivers as the 350 and that seems to have worked. Device manager shows both cards the 350 on PCI slot 2 using IRQ 22 and 250 on PCI slot 4 using IRQ19. When I tried adding the second card in Sage it does not appear that Sage sees the new 250, although I am not sure of this since I have never done this type of installation before. When I go into setup and run the setup wizard I see the existing 350 although Sage does not label it that way. But that's all I see. I clicked on "add new source" and it show me the generic description which on first pass I though would have been the second card or the 250. I proceeded with the installation and it hangs when it gets to the USB-UIRT section. After doing this two times I concluded that Sage was simply reinstalling the existing 350 and that's why it was hanging.

So, when you have two cards installed in a machine and you go into setup wizard do you see both cards? If so this is not the case for me. Also it seems with both cards installed Sage immediately tries to use the new card. The reason I say this is that the normal great picture of the TV out of the 350 becomes all gray and looks like it might have a bad cable connection ( jumpy etc). If I disable the 250 in device manage then the 350 out goes back to working just fine.

I have the two tuner cards connect via separate SA 4200 STB . Each STB is fed by a split from the cable coming out of the wall. Any help would be appreciated.

[jphhughes]

I think I found part of the problem my properties files had the entry:

mmc/ignore_encoders=Hauppauge WinTV PVR PCI II Capture \#2,

based on a search it seems I should delete the portion after the "=" sign. RIght?

[carlgar]

Yes, you should see both cards with setup. The description would be the same but one should have a #1 on it. If you added a third card it would have a #2 on it.

I think you have multiple problems. Check this line in you properties file:
mmc/ignore_encoders - list of the capture devices for SageTV to ignore, these will NOT show up in the list of capture devices

Yes, delete to the right of the equal sign.

Once you are seeing both cards, If your video is still not good. Try using the New Hauppauge Beta Drivers for IVAC15/16 Combination drivers. They fix problems related to have a 350 and 250 in the same system.

[jphhughes]

Thanks carlgar. I am using the IVAC15/16 drivers so I expect after I fix the mmc/ingnore_encoders all will be well.

[jphhughes]

After deleting the appropriate information from the mmc/ignore_encoders line, Sage did see both tuner cards. However when I added device to set up channels and STB with USB-UIRT it locks up at the point where I click on USB-UIRT. I tried setting it up with no ir device and it gets through the entire wizard ok. Then when I try and watch live TV it looks to me like its trying to use the new tuner (250) instead of the 350. Sage is configured for the 350 so how do I tell it to use the 350 tuner and not the 250.

I am getting a picture but it is black and white and and has no sound the desplay on the pc show a 350 type ui as once I select live TV the PC monitor goes black.

Now I know some of your are using a 350 and 250 in the same machine so any help would be appreciated.

[carlgar]

I fail to understand why it would make a difference to you as to which card it is using. Normally, it would choose the tuner based upon which channels the tuner can receive. However, you can control which tuner to use first with the following property.
mmc/encoders/XXX/encoder_merit - used to determine which capture device is 'preferred' when all other things are equal, higher numbers mean better

[jphhughes]

Fair point but what about this situation. Prior to installing the 250 I was enjoying the great picture you get from the 350 when watching live TV Now Sage decides to use the 250 with a lesser quality picture and I have no way to tell it to use the 350. Having said that I still fell I am missing something here in who one used two tuner cards. My main interest was to be able to record show while still watching other shows.

I have two entires in my properties file that contain encoder_merit they are

mmc/encoders/1642691032/encoder_merit=0
mmc/encoders/551195575/encoder_merit=0

Should I have two and if which one is the 350. Thanks again for your continued help.

[mls]

When you look thru the properties file, just a few lines below the line for "merit" should be a line saying which tuner card it goes with (you can also match things from the numbers in the mmc lines at to what all goes together for any one tuner).

Unless you change the merit values, SageTV will just pick which ever tuner if feels like using (unless they have different channel guide setups).

So, if everything does get set up correctly... if your watching a channel and Sage wants to record something it will automatically use the other tuner (althoughs sometimes it does a quircky thing asking if it's ok to change channels... minor bug in the program, but usually just selecting do nothing lets it go on).

Now, having said all the above... that's assuming you have everything up and running correctly. Somehow, I think you may have messed up by telling it use the 350 driver. I am not sure if that one just fixes the prob with for the 350 to work with other cards, or if it can be used with the 250 cards themselves.

I'm just guessing (and hope someone else that knows will fill us in more), but I think you should pull the cards, run the hcwclear program, then put back the 350 and install it as you had before. After that, put in the 250 and install the drivers that came with it (or newer ones from Hauppauges site if you feel you need them).

Anyway, if you do everything just right, it's not hard at all to set up multiple tuners. I've got 2 PVR-250's, a USB2, and a Roslyn card (total of 4 tuners)... works pretty slick (after getting all the driver issues solved).

As for using the USB-UIRT to control mulitple STB's that's an area I haven't gotten into myself yet, but I know others can tell you exactly how to do it (actually, the UIRT can control up to 3 devices, but you need an extra cable and IR transmitters, which you can probibly get at Radio Shack).

Hopefully someone can fill in the info that you need for doing that here shortly.

[carlgar]

Originally posted by jphhughes
I have two entires in my properties file that contain encoder_merit they are

mmc/encoders/1642691032/encoder_merit=0
mmc/encoders/551195575/encoder_merit=0

Should I have two and if which one is the 350. Thanks again for your continued help.

yes, you should have one entry for each card that you have. Based upon what I see I would say that the 551195575 entry is the 250 card. The 1642691032 would be your 350 card.

I have no idea about picture quality, I have not seen that problem. I can only tell the difference between the cards when I have a cable related problem causing static on one of the cards.

[jphhughes]

MLS thanks for the additonal help. this thread (http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...&threadid=5291)provides a good explanation of how to get the USB UIRT to handel two tuners

However for now I would just like to solve getting both Hauppauge cards to work. I thing your suggestion about reinstalling the cards is a good one but I would also like to confirm that the IVAC 15/16 Drivers are to be used to install bot the 350 and the 250.

So if anyone can confirm this it would appreciated.

[carlgar]

I used those drivers for all 3 ( 2 250, 1 350) of my cards.

[jphhughes]

Carlgar thanks for the confirmation. I just un-installed both cards and reinstalled the 350 and its working well again. I will install the 250 and see if things change for the better, although I expect I will have the same problems. Just as a check the process is to install the cards run the new hardware found wizard and point to the drivers restart the system and then add the card to sage. The last time I did that when I reached the part to install the usb uirt it just froze and I had to use task managers to end Sage process.

edit: By the way what do I do about my properties file it still contains all the info on two cards eventhough they are not installed. Should I delete this and if so what do I delete? Thanks again.

[carlgar]

If you are you using the Hauppauge remote with their software I would not run hcwclear, because it removes a file that is not part of the drivers. Otherwise, you should run hcwclear and then reboot. The system will prompt you for the new drivers. I have no idea what to about the uirt stuff, I have never used one.
You should not have to do anything with your properties file. But if there is not anything special in there you could go ahead and delete it before restarting SageTV.

Just for clarification doesn't the usb uirt part come up as part of the SageTV tuner setup?

[jphhughes]

Yes that correct. when you add new source the USB-uirt is part of that process. Also both tuners have identical configurations. Perhaps I sould change on to basic cable and see if that makes a difference.

Well I have both cards back in the PC and now I have not picture or sound on the TV but when I change a channel I see the UI . The system information says I am recording nothing on the #2 card and recording a program on the card whihc has no number designation on channel 28 which sould be correct except its no displaying on the TV.

This is all very wierd.

[kny3twalker]

well the second card you install will always be tuner number 1
so install the pvr 250 first then add the pvr 350
if you do not want to mess the tuner merit
also the pvr 250 and 350 have the same quality when recording only the 350 has a hardware decoder for outputting to a TV rather than having to use a video card TV output
well unless your pvr 250 is broken

you might as well delete the properties file you are not recording anything
or sounds like you do not even have it setup currently
you will lose your favorites though

[carlgar]

Originally posted by jphhughes
Yes that correct. when you add new source the USB-uirt is part of that process. Also both tuners have identical configurations. Perhaps I sould change on to basic cable and see if that makes a difference.

Well I have both cards back in the PC and now I have not picture or sound on the TV but when I change a channel I see the UI . The system information says I am recording nothing on the #2 card and recording a program on the card whihc has no number designation on channel 28 which sould be correct except its no displaying on the TV.

This is all very wierd.

Yes, I think you should first make sure both cards work properly with just the basic cable.

I am now confused about your configuration. You state that both tuners have identical configurations, this implies you have two usb uirts. If you only have one usb uirt, then one tuner can just handle the basic channels and the other tuner can handle all channels.

[jphhughes]

Carlgar, I didn't get a chance to respond yesterday or do further work on this issue.:

I have only one USB-UIRT. It is my understanding that this can be set up using zone control to control my two STB's. Unfortunately I have not gotten to that point yet because of the other problems. I am also assuming that using zone control I can get both STB's to handle all of the cable channels. My original intent in adding the second tuner was so I could record a program while watching (recording) a second program. I have the two cable boxes being fed from a splitter. For the purposed of understanding I will identify the STB's as Cable box #1 and Cable BOX#2. Cable Box #1 is connected to the 250 card and Cable Box #2 is connected to the 350 card. The 350 feed the TV. One of the problems I discovered and have not had the time to check on is that if I turn off cable box #1 I get no picture on the TV. This make no sense to me as CB1 is connected to the 250 and I would assume even if Sage was using that tuner it could not output anything to the TV. If I turn off CB2 it has no effect on the output to the TV. SO I need to check and see if my cable hookup is what I think it should be.

I tried recording one show while watching another and although under systems information it verified this was happening in actuality Sage just recorded the same show I was watching. I believe this is because the cable box did not change channels which is probably a result of not have usb UIRT zone control implemented. I will try and physically change the box and see if in fact a different program is recorded. I apologize if my description is unclear but his does get real confusing. Lastly keep in mind that Sage never did let me complete the setup wizard for the 250 card. As I said previously when I got to the point of setting us the USB-UIRT it just locked up and it lock up every time as I re-tired the Setup Wizard a least three times.

I need to check the cabling from the two STB and make sure it is correct because what is happening now is just Bizarre.

[carlgar]

Have you tried just basic cable yet? Just to be clear by basic cable I mean bypass the STB box and go directly to the tuner cards. This will limit the stations you can get but will verify that the two cards work properly.

[jphhughes]

No I have not tried that but I can give it a try tonight. I believe both cards are working as the 250 was working in another machine. but what you suggest does elliminate one of the cable boxes and we can see what happens then. Thanks.