alternatives to Sage to consider

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by stanger89

... That and you end up limiting yourself to potentially inferior solutions (like PowerDVD for a disc vs a standalone player in my case).

Very true, and that brings us back to the begining of this thread, what's next (retorical)? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? ...

[wayner]

It is hard to find something that can do everything since there are so many vested interests each trying to "win" and they are all thinking about their own interests rather than maximizing the experience for the user. That is why Sage was good since it was too small to be influenced by wars like Cable cos vs Netflix vs Google vs MS.

Sage did everything well, and still does, with the exception of streaming content like Netflix. The Playon solution was a first start but it was slow, SD only and didn't work so well for browsing.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

Very true, and that brings us back to the begining of this thread, what's next (retorical)? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? ...

At this point I'm sort of hoping I can just keep Sage going until I don't need DVR functionality anymore.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by stanger89

At this point I'm sort of hoping I can just keep Sage going until I don't need DVR functionality anymore.

Yea, you're one of the lucky ones with lots of CopyFreely channels, IIRC, not so lucky here. WMC is real nice as a DVR, but you're familiar with the extender limitations.

[sdsean]

I too am frustrated with the complete lack of all in one solutions although I fully understand why this has happened. My SageTV system keeps working like a charm though so I can't complain, but I get very nervous that someday the EPG feed is going to die and I'll be screwed.

I'm so tempted to de-compile the SageTV software just so that I can keep it going. Could never "release" that commercially of course, but since the source code is all now owned by google I just don't see a better option unless you wanted to start all over again from scratch.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by sdsean

I too am frustrated with the complete lack of all in one solutions although I fully understand why this has happened. My SageTV system keeps working like a charm though so I can't complain, but I get very nervous that someday the EPG feed is going to die and I'll be screwed.

I suspect Google is just letting SageTV piggyback off the GoogleTV EPG service at this point, so I'm sort of thinking as long as GoogleTV is going SageTV will have guide data.

[sdsean]

Yeah I mean I have no reason to believe it would happen. . .it's just a big failure point :P

Still though I'd like to really dive into the code base and then be able to deal with problems on my own if something fell apart. . . I probably should start just with writing a plugin or 2.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by sdsean

I too am frustrated with the complete lack of all in one solutions although I fully understand why this has happened. My SageTV system keeps working like a charm though so I can't complain, but I get very nervous that someday the EPG feed is going to die and I'll be screwed.

I'm so tempted to de-compile the SageTV software just so that I can keep it going. Could never "release" that commercially of course, but since the source code is all now owned by google I just don't see a better option unless you wanted to start all over again from scratch.

I had, at one point, thought about writing a new UI renderer that would work with the existing STV system - to be able to be ported over to other platforms (like the myriad of cheap streamers out there these days). however, I simply don't like Java, which is what the entire STV is very soundly built on. Still, there are a lot of great things about the widget tree system, and it would be nice to develop one using a better platform.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I had, at one point, thought about writing a new UI renderer that would work with the existing STV system - to be able to be ported over to other platforms (like the myriad of cheap streamers out there these days). however, I simply don't like Java, which is what the entire STV is very soundly built on. Still, there are a lot of great things about the widget tree system, and it would be nice to develop one using a better platform.

I had thought about the same thing I started to look at using an HTML renderer (using webgl or canvas) and autogenerate it using the the STV as a source. The issue, as you say, is that the STV is heavily dependent on Java (including the ability to directly embed Java inline), so it makes it hard (but not impossible) to build a "non java" rendererer.

I also started a project a few months back to create an open source version of SageTV server. SageTV has a rich and well documented set of of open apis, so the goal would have been to create an open source solution that was compatible with the existing APIs, so that existing plugins could be loaded, unchanged. Again, another lofty goal, and if I was younger with more time on my hands, I'd probably still do it

As for languages, I tend to like Java (although I didn't always), but I could just as easily write in C/C++ or C#. The issue that I find when I use .net languages, is that I find it hard to find pre-written libraries. Java as a language doesn't offer much, but in terms of 3rd party library support, it's probably the most feature rich language out there. My experience when I was trying to do a project in .net is that there are some libraries out there... but they are hard to find, or they cost money... and paying for each little library when you are an indie dev gets expensive (I also need a language that going to run on linux, and while .net "can" be written to run on Linux, it's a challenge to navigate especially if you are using MS tools)

And then the more I think about my PVR needs, I simply need a headless PVR solution that simply records media, and then use something like Plex or Xbmc as the front end.

[tmiranda]

I am all for begging and grovelling Google to open source the code. Yes, I am still dreaming I know.....

When my system becomes unusable I will probably look very closely at the new TiVo Roamio. That's looking like the best option right now.

[calypsocowboy]

I'm still going, but honestly I need to look at something else. Software just can't go forever with out some sort of update. I'm worried about a Java update that is needed for security breaking the app or some other patch or guide data no longer working. My HD300 constantly runs hot and I wonder about it causing issues down the road. My wife was all over me last night when things weren't working because she couldn't watch "Big Brother" which is a completely different issue. But I'm not completely comfortable with the current situation.

I understand Sage would be quite when google bought them but it has been way too quiet. And face it, google doesn't want us recording and com skipping live TV, they make their money off ads, so they want to push everything online.

[sdsean]

Well the commercial skipping thing is really not as big of a deal as people think. Content providers are already moving more to product placement models, sidebar ads, etc. there are millions of creative ways to do advertising.

the real question is whether everything will move to online streaming....but the problem there is bandwidth right now...and even then the fracturing caused by everyone streaming their own content causes a lot of frustration and higher cost etc. that's why doing an "all in one solution" is so difficult because there is always some new flavor of the month content provider on the web. I personally never use Netflix for example cause they never have any content I want. This of course makes the ability to record all the more critical

I don't mind java at all especially because it makes things more portable including nicely integrating with android.

I just need to find some darn time... :-)

Most of the work is already there and there are tons of minor enhancements.

While i agree that software is always in need of updating...I have to say that I really have had next to nothing in terms of real issues...

[BobbyDing]

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I've never heard of ARGUS TV before. Stumbled across the web site today. Anybody have any experience with it? Seems it's been around a while.
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http://www.argus-tv.com/
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[Bagal]

Originally Posted by BobbyDing

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I've never heard of ARGUS TV before. Stumbled across the web site today. Anybody have any experience with it? Seems it's been around a while.
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http://www.argus-tv.com/
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It used to be called 4TheRecord and started off as an advanced scheduling system you could use with MediaPortal, I used to use it and it was pretty awesome, they then started writing their own recording engine called Argus, before the two devs working on it went their separate ways and one of them took the code and turned it into Argus TV.

I never used the Argus recording engine but I've heard good things about it and I can say the scheduling abilities are on a par with SageTV and exceed it in some areas, the only downside, if you can call it that, is that it needs to be used in conjunction with a front-end such as MediaPortal or XBMC.

[jptheripper]

Ok so XMBC with PVR support using NextPVR (supports cablecard) seems to meet all my requirements.

So for extender, what are the options for a XBMC frontend?

Requirements
1. IR remote
2. HDMI
3. (prefered)some analog video and optical out
4. Fast boot
5. ~$150 pricetag

I keep trying to look at openelec but i just get forbiddens on all pages

[dgeezer]

That's weird. I think the Openelec site must be down.

I still use SageTV with 2 HD300 for my regular setup. I have been palying around with Npvr on my desktop using an extra HDHomerun for OTA only. It works fine for me as far as recording, recurring recordings, comskip etc. I actually ran GBPvr with two media mvp's way back before I moved to SageTV. The lack of an extender that worked with HDTV on GBpvr led me to SageTV and the HD100......

I have a Raspberry Pi running Openelec that seems to work OK. I have an old Windows Media Center IR dongle plugged in to one of the Pi's usb ports. The mce remote is supported by XBMC and works fine. My Harmony remote also controls it no problem. The biggest problem is that the PVR functions in XBMC still seem very unpolished. Browsing the Guide and setting up recordings is not good. Also, as of right now, comskip files don't work with the XBMC PVR. However, playback of recordings and all my other video content is great.


Also, have you seen Reven's samsung client for Npvr GBpvr forum Post

[jerryt]

It there any thing other then WMC which supports Cablecard copy protected channels?

Seems like the only option for protected content.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by jerryt

It there any thing other then WMC which supports Cablecard copy protected channels?

Seems like the only option for protected content.

No, that is the only software solution that is cablelabs approved.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by jerryt

It there any thing other then WMC which supports Cablecard copy protected channels?

Seems like the only option for protected content.

Tivo as well, but WMC as far as Software based goes.

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by jptheripper

Ok so XMBC with PVR support using NextPVR (supports cablecard) seems to meet all my requirements.

So for extender, what are the options for a XBMC frontend?

Requirements
1. IR remote
2. HDMI
3. (prefered)some analog video and optical out
4. Fast boot
5. ~$150 pricetag

I keep trying to look at openelec but i just get forbiddens on all pages

I tested this out about a month ago. It all works, somewhat. The configuration is pretty straight forward. The NextPVR piece is rock solid. There are issues with XBMC running the NextPVR plugin. It connects and lists channels in a weird way, to me at least, and the recordings playback fine. It just seems much less reliable. I can be switching between channels in the guide one minute with no issues, then the next minute the interface freezes, and two minutes later states the tuner is locked etc.. The plugin is just not what I am used to with SageTV extenders. Not as fast, not as reliable, and not as intuitive. I mostly blame the immaturity of the XBMC DVR support, which I am sure will get better, but it is a ways off IMHO.
If you were to go with NextPVR boxes, which means windows clients and servers, it would work just fine, and is quite stable.

As a side note, I also just tried out Media Portal 1.5Prerelease, since it claims out of the box Cable Card Support. That situation is even worse. I could get ATSC working great. Cable Card tuning was a no go for me. I couldn't even get it to scan channels properly. I even tried a patch they released on top of the prerelease install.

All in all, things, like others have said, are not even close to what we have with SageTV

My wife and 5 year old operate the SageTV interface, and expect/see near 100% reliability. I wouldn't get anywhere near that with XBMC or Media Portal with CableCard.