"Keep at Most" not working?

[SpaceFuzz]

Does anyone else have problems with the "Keep at Most" feature being ignored? I have it set to "2" for one of my favorites, and found 23 episodes recorded. I deleted the favorite, re-created it, set KAM to 2 again, and Sage continues to record episode after episode. I found it happening to one or two of my other favorites, too, but not all of them. Any ideas?
(SageTV 2.0.19, 100 GB drive, WinXP Pro, 400MHz Celeron, Hauppauge PVR 350)

[Opus4]

Is it set to Manual Delete? If so, it won't automatically delete any of them. If not, I would try toggling that setting to see if it resets it somehow. When set to auto-delete, it shouldn't be keeping that many.

- Andy

[jblust]

After you recreated the favorite, is it still saving more than 2 episodes? When you say "Sage continues to record episode after episode" it sounds like you're expecting sage to stop scheduling recordings of that show after it's got two episodes on the hard drive. It'll keep recording them, but it should only save the two most recent.

[SpaceFuzz]

It is set for "AutoDelete = No" (Manual delete). My impression of "manual delete" with "keep at most = 2" is that Sage will record two episodes of a show, then stop scheduling new recordings (because I did not permit it to "auto delete" old episodes to make room for new ones). I had "Curb Appeal" set to KAM 2, manual delete, and found 23 episodes. I've deleted that favorite, recreated it, and Sage started collecting again. I've now set it to "AutoDelete = Yes" and it is not collecting ANY new episodes because it keeps deleting them to make room for other shows (that have AutoDelete = No). So I have to manually set the RECORD (red border) to capture a couple PERMANENTLY until I tell it to delete them.
I just checked another favorite "Ultimate Home 2" and Sage is collecting them too (7 episodes), with KAM = 2 and AutoDelete = No. So it appears Keep at Most does not halt future scheduling when autodelete is set to "no."
My aim is to have a wide variety of shows on Sage at any time (a couple episodes of each). The problem is that with AutoDelete set to Yes, any show that has MANY episodes (e.g. Curb Appeal and Ultimate Home 2 seem to have 10-20 per week) will SWAMP SageTV and blow away shows like Frontline that only occur a couple times a month. I hated turning on SageTV to find mostly TWO types of shows in queue: Curb Appeal and Ultimate Home 2.
Thanks for looking into this. I'll bet it's repeatable if you configure your SageTV the same way.

[kny3twalker]

try using mlbdude's skin with a time slot recording
it will record the episode that airs closest to the set time slot and then you can just record one a day of each show and set the limit of the show to like 3

I have to use this for two of my recording sportscenter (about 20 of them per day and the screensavers which have no episode numbers)

[Opus4]

Originally posted by SpaceFuzz
It is set for "AutoDelete = No" (Manual delete). My impression of "manual delete" with "keep at most = 2" is that Sage will record two episodes of a show, then stop scheduling new recordings (because I did not permit it to "auto delete" old episodes to make room for new ones).

Well, it would _seem_ that would be the way it works, but it isn't. I was in a discussion about it last fall & for all I know it came up before I joined too.

It turns out that Keep at Most only functions if the fav is set to auto delete. When set to manual delete, SageTV isn't allowed to automatically delete the shows, but it doesn't stop recording them either.

kny3twalker gave an option for contrlling shows with many airings. Another thing to try is to use Intelligent Recording. IR won't try to record every episode of a show, where favs do exactly that.

Several people have requested that this change, but since Frey likes it to function this way, perhaps the UI should change so that the KAM feature is disabled on the screen when manual recording is selected. That would at least end the confusion.

- Andy

[justme]

Opus4, I thought the "issue" in that thread was Sage's design choice to continue to record new episodes that pushed out the currently recorded episodes when the KAM limit was reached. Not with Sage continueing to record a basically infinite number of episodes. I thought they wanted Sage to stop recording new episodes and keep the current ones til the user deleted some. Anyway, I'll have to look up that old thread.

SpaceFuzz,
I don't remember ever seeing this exact behavior(from this thread) and I set almost all of my favorites to manual delete with KAM(usually 5 or higher).

As a test I've setup a Favorite just like you suggested: KAM=2 and AutoDelete=Manual I chose the show 'Aqua Teen hunger Force', since I already watch it. I also know for certian that each of the show IDs is unique. It also comes out with 2 episodes a night. There will be 2 on tonight(technically tommorow) starting at midnight. So I should know if it's repeatable on my system by 1:00AM EST Friday. I deleted the old Favorite which used a different setup just to try and reproduce this situation. Time will tell.

PS:SpaceFuzz, please tell me if there are any other settings I should check/change before 1AM tonight.

[Opus4]

Originally posted by justme
Opus4, I thought the "issue" in that thread was Sage's design choice to continue to record new episodes that pushed out the currently recorded episodes when the KAM limit was reached. Not with Sage continueing to record a basically infinite number of episodes. I thought they wanted Sage to stop recording new episodes and keep the current ones til the user deleted some. Anyway, I'll have to look up that old thread.

No -- here is a link to one of Jeff's comments in that thread. It does both: 1) always keep recording new shows, pushing out old ones if auto-delete is one, and 2) always record new shows, ignoring KAM if auto-delete is not on.

Like I said, I think I'll send in a suggestion that KAM be disabled if manual delete is on... since they obviously don't want to have it stop recording new shows.

- Andy

[justme]

Thanks for digging up the thread. Still weird that I've never seen this particuliar behavior. I would've sworn that my shows just get pushed(flushed) out to make room for new episodes. Maybe I just set my KAM, so high I watch and elete them first. I'll still run the test just for my own curiosity.

Editted:To remove a misreading by me. Sorry about that Opus4.

[Opus4]

Originally posted by justme
I would swear that my shows just get pushed(flushed) out to make room for new episodes.

Right -- that's what I was saying too. With auto delete on & KAM on, it still records new shows, flushing out the old ones.

Was this a misphrase, since in this case he reports he(spacefuzz) is using KAM(ie it's turned on)

I think I phrased #2 correctly... to rephrase: if auto-delete is off (manual delete the fav only) & a KAM setting is made, the KAM setting is ignored since no shows can be auto-deleted. The # of stored recordings continue to increase beyond the KAM setting.

Edit: Oh... I see you removed that comment/questions.

- Andy

[justme]

Yeah I think disabling it(KAM), when manual delete is used, may be a good option. Since as you point out, it is really a nonfeature with manual delete on. Man, this particuliar subject can get confusing.

PS:Sorry about the edit of that post. I didn't want to further add to the confusion. I realized I'd misunderstood what you'd posted when I was rereading the entire thread.

[SpaceFuzz]

First, thanks for all the discussion.
Second, "Justme," the only two settings you need to mess with are AutoDelete (AD) Off (manual), and Keep at Most (KAM) 5.
Third, some of the proposals discussed here are heading dangerously toward making these features so annoying they won't even be used as intended. I.E., if KAM is disabled when AD is Off, then shows that occur frequently will accumulate infinitely. Who wants a SageTV filled with 30 episodes of one show? The proposal to keep the "as designed" functionality is equally useless. How does everyone respond to the following analysis:
As designed:
** AD on, KAM 5 - records up to 5 episodes, then deletes old ones as newer ones arrive. Also may delete ALL of these episodes in favor of another favorite or other type of show. But that's a result of AD on (you don't mind Sage autodeleting them as needed).
** AD off, KAM 5 - records infinite episodes, disregarding the KAM. Results in massive use of hard drive for any show that occurs frequently.

As proposed:
** AD on, KAM 5 - this actually functions as intuitively as possible. The only improvement would be a "Keep at Minimum" (please shoot me now!) that prevents Sage from deleting all episodes.
** AD off, KAM 5 - records up to 5 episodes. Once full, Sage disregards recording future episodes. If one episode is watched and deleted, it will record ONE more to fill the hole. User's intent is to NEVER have Sage delete shows automatically, but only keep up to 5 recordings.

IMHO, there is no other logical or intuitive behavior. What do you all think?

[Opus4]

Originally posted by SpaceFuzz
** AD off, KAM 5 - records up to 5 episodes. Once full, Sage disregards recording future episodes. If one episode is watched and deleted, it will record ONE more to fill the hole. User's intent is to NEVER have Sage delete shows automatically, but only keep up to 5 recordings.

Did you read the other thread that I linked to? That is exactly what has been suggested & asked for before, way before v2 was ever released as a public beta. That's the way it _seems_ like it should work, simply by looking at the options on the screen. Like I said -- this isn't a new issue at all. (No offense... I'm simply reminding you that we've suggested the same thing before.) Frey doesn't always read everything in these forums, so please go ahead and email them the suggestion so they know more folks think it ought to be changed so that it is more intuitive.

My suggestion to have that option disabled when auto-delete is off reflects the fact that Frey has consistently said that it currently works the way they intended and are not about to change it. (Maybe they will change their minds some day...) So, if they are intent on keeping the current functionality of ignoring the KAM setting when using manual delete, they should at least disable KAM so this isn't such a confusing issue for newer users like yourself, especially since this isn't documented anywhere.

Finally, as was mentioned above, mlbdude's STV enables the ability to specify the time slot when a favorite is allowed to record. You could use this option to reduce the number of airings recorded for those shows that are on 42 times a day. And, you may be able to use his STV to set that option & then switch to another STV for normal use -- I'm not 100% sure that the fav setting would continue, since I haven't tried it, but I think there is a good chance that it would.

- Andy

[kny3twalker]

It would work like that
I switch .STVs all the time and have two recording set with time slots and one of those with a KAM at 5
it is for sportscenter I only need a week of it at a time

[Opus4]

Great to know! Then, the only possible problem I can think of is that it _might_ get reset if you edit the fav in another STV... but I don't really think it will, so this may not be a problem at all. Have you tried that?

- Andy

[SpaceFuzz]

Thanks, Andy. I guess I'll have to check out this "mlbdude's" skin. Haven't done that before. I'll check the posts to find out where to d/l and how to install.
I did read your link to the prior post and was pleased to see you suggest exactly what I was feeling. Sounds like Frey needs some arm-twisting (or breaking). It's so frustrating that I want to just hack the code and do it myself! (Oops, do I lose my license for saying that?) ;-)
Oh, my kludgy work-around: Set AD off, let Sage record 2 to 5 episodes, then flag them as "Record" with the red button, then turn AD on. Sage won't kill the ones I've marked as manually record, and with AD on, the KAM works. Thank goodness everything is working "as designed." :-(
Luckily, they designed Sage so well on the other parts of the interface that I still love it despite its little flaws.

[kny3twalker]

no I have not changed my favorites in other .STVs but I am a loyal mlbdude .STV user


take a look at my main menu

I like it

[Opus4]

Originally posted by SpaceFuzz
I guess I'll have to check out this "mlbdude's" skin. Haven't done that before. I'll check the posts to find out where to d/l and how to install.

Here is the link to mlbdude's STV in the customization forum.

- Andy