FCC to allow encryption of basic cable

[mkanet]

Yes, most people remember talk about this a while back. But, now it's reality. So, just curious what's really going to happen. I tried searching on this, but didn't find anything specific.

[darcilicious]

Original thread here: http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59252

[Fuzzy]

There's no 'real' new information here, other than the plans that the FCC tried to get going, haven't really gone anywhere yet, so the implementation has backed off. This initiative of the FCC has gone through many various versions over the years, resulting in many half-cooked solutions: Firewire STB interfaces, CableCard, AllVid, etc. Unfortunately, by the time a 'good' solution (like what AllVid could be) gets to maturity, i think the overall method of mass market media consumption will have changed enough that it's ultimate impact is minimized.

[tvmaster2]

Comcast, Xfiniti, whoever they are, now requires a $1.99 rental of a small box to decode basic cable. blows

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Comcast, Xfiniti, whoever they are, now requires a $1.99 rental of a small box to decode basic cable. blows

Do they actually encrypt basic cable, or are they just saying that so they don't have to support QAM tuners? My guess is that the latter is more likely.

[Fuzzy]

cableco's have been given exemptions in certain markets to encrypt the entire broadcast, including re-broadcast local's. It is an income security issue, and honestly, I do agree with it. Especially in markets like New York, where the cableco has paid the infrastructure cost, and maintenance cost, for the network, and then a ton of people use that infrastructure to get local tv without paying a subscription - the cableco's should be able to recoup that cost.

[reggie14]

As Fuzzy said, the FCC previously had a ban on encrypted the basic tier (i.e., local and public access channels), but recently they started giving waivers. Even more recently, however, the FCC just got rid of that ban entirely.

I'm not sure many cable companies will jump at the opportunity to encrypt these channels, but if they do it kind of sucks for people that bought QAM tuners. I'm tempted to agree that all things considered, this is probably a reasonable cost-saving measure for cable companies (who don't want to roll out a truck to physically disconnect your service), but I wish there were better ways to record encrypted TV.

I wouldn't expect many companies could copy protect broadcast TV, so I guess you'd be able to use an HDHR Prime.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Do they actually encrypt basic cable, or are they just saying that so they don't have to support QAM tuners? My guess is that the latter is more likely.

well, when I tried to access basic channels with my Tivo Series 2, which accepts a basic cable-from-the-wall connection, it couldn't access ANY channels.
a Comcast store employee said that in order to see ANY basic channels, it would cost $1.99 per outlet

[darcilicious]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

well, when I tried to access basic channels with my Tivo Series 2, which accepts a basic cable-from-the-wall connection, it couldn't access ANY channels.
a Comcast store employee said that in order to see ANY basic channels, it would cost $1.99 per outlet

So perhaps you're in an area where Comcast got a waiver to encrypt everything?

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

well, when I tried to access basic channels with my Tivo Series 2, which accepts a basic cable-from-the-wall connection, it couldn't access ANY channels.

Series 2 doesn't have an HD tuner, and probably doesn't support digital TV. Right?

Comcast probably dropped analog channels in your area. That's why you can't get any channels anymore. Comcast dropped analog channels in my area a couple years ago, but as of a few months ago still had the digital broadcast channels unencrypted.

[darcilicious]

That's what I thought at first and then I read this spec:

"Up to 80 hours of digital audio/video recording capacity (NTSC); works with cable, digital cable, satellite."

But now I'm back to thinking that "digital cable" means with CableCARD and not clear QAM...

[reggie14]

I thought you didn't get digital cable and cablecard support until the Series 3.

[darcilicious]

Dunno but the quote from above is from amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-TCD649080.../dp/B000ER5G58

I checked the Tivo site and it was impossible for me to suss out the same information so...

[HokiePerogi]

Originally Posted by darcilicious

That's what I thought at first and then I read this spec:

"Up to 80 hours of digital audio/video recording capacity (NTSC); works with cable, digital cable, satellite."

But now I'm back to thinking that "digital cable" means with CableCARD and not clear QAM...

I was a big TiVo user before I got hooked on SageTV some years ago. You could record anything with a TiVo series one or two, but it worked like a VCR...the signal was simply passed through your TiVo from it original source, like a STB. Then infrared blasters were used to change the channel on the STB.

[reggie14]

There's apparently different Series 2 models. One model, the Series 2 DT, actually does seem to include a digital tuner.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by HokiePerogi

I was a big TiVo user before I got hooked on SageTV some years ago. You could record anything with a TiVo series one or two, but it worked like a VCR...the signal was simply passed through your TiVo from it original source, like a STB. Then infrared blasters were used to change the channel on the STB.

I never had a TiVo, but presumably the Series 1 and 2 models had analog tuners. So, I assumed it could record all but the premium channels without a set top box.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by darcilicious

That's what I thought at first and then I read this spec:

"Up to 80 hours of digital audio/video recording capacity (NTSC); works with cable, digital cable, satellite."

But now I'm back to thinking that "digital cable" means with CableCARD and not clear QAM...

I think they are talking about either RF or composite video-out from the cable or sat box and an ir blaster. Eg, pure SD all the way.

Drew

[gilded07]

Cox Communications, here in the Phx metro area, uses a screw on filter in the line at the cableco box by the street to filter out TV if you're only an internet client.

Years ago, when I was on Directv, I gave cableco worker $20 to remove the filter so I could get basic (2-75, I think) in a couple of the rooms where I didn't have a sat STB. He showed me the filter...looks like it just filters out certain frequencies and lets others pass.

Worked for a year or so and then found out they send out auditors every so often to verify filters and connections. An 'audit' revealed I was getting cable TV service I wasn't paying for and the tech put the filter back in the line.

Wonder if they'll find it more profitable to manage an inventory of decoders they can generate revenue off of. Assume they still have to bring them out to your house and come get them when you disconnect or upgrade to digital.

Also wonder if a secondary market might develop for the analog decoders. If it came to that, would be nice to pick up half a dozen off of ebay for $20!!

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by gilded07

Wonder if they'll find it more profitable to manage an inventory of decoders they can generate revenue off of. Assume they still have to bring them out to your house and come get them when you disconnect or upgrade to digital.

A lot of the cable companies either already have or are going to move to all digital. The analog channels take up too much bandwidth. They'd rather move to all digital and use the freed up channels for more HD channels and faster internet. So, they're already expecting that they'll have to have boxes at each TV.

By not using filters, they're saving a tech visit to install/upgrade/downgrade/terminate service. If you to get or return a box, they can have you do it in-person at a customer service center, or do it through the mail.

Originally Posted by gilded07

Also wonder if a secondary market might develop for the analog decoders. If it came to that, would be nice to pick up half a dozen off of ebay for $20!!

What analog decoders? I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Are you talking about the old school analog set top boxes that de-scrambled premium channels? Those haven't been used for a long time.

There'd be no reason to buy the digital set top boxes they're moving to. As far as I know, (almost) no cable TV company in the US lets you activate ones that you've purchased online. Maybe you could do that if you get your hands on one with a cablecard inside. There are some set top boxes on ebay now. I'm not really sure why anyone would buy them. I've heard that Canadian cable companies let you buy them.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Series 2 doesn't have an HD tuner, and probably doesn't support digital TV. Right?

Comcast probably dropped analog channels in your area. That's why you can't get any channels anymore. Comcast dropped analog channels in my area a couple years ago, but as of a few months ago still had the digital broadcast channels unencrypted.

they're blocking EVERYTHING...but yes, they are blocking basic by turning it digital, which of course can be converted back to analog again for $1.99 per month per drop. scam