EPIA M9000 mpeg2 decoding?

[rrussell]

Hi, all -

I have a PVR250 installed in a teeeny tiny box with a VIA Epia M9000 motherboard. This is one that claims to have a hardware mpeg2 decoder, but I do not see it in the decoder list, leading me to believe I have not installed the correct drivers or something like that. Unfortunately, I've installed everything I could find for the thing.

Is anyone else using the M9000 hardware decoding successfully? I'd love to hear how!

Thanks,
Rob

[jimbobuk]

I believe i heard that the M9000 hardware decoding is only available via the dvd app that comes with the motherboard or something.. can't see why its not a generic filter...

you got the 933mhz board?!?!? could you do a test for me?!? I was considering a system with that chip in as my permanent PVR solution... in a networked form... could you tell me how much CPU usage you have with that box when just doing a sage recording... i get about 1-2-5% on my 2100+ XP ... which rightfully means you should get about 10-20% on that....

Finally as i would then not be using the machine to decode, rather i'd play over the network it'd be great to get a 2nd reading of CPU usage of that machine recording again with Sage, but this time simultaneously copying a 200meg file over the network say... Toms hardware reviewed the boards and said that network transfer took quite a big CPU hit.. i assume this was at full pelt 100meg/s ... i'm hoping those boards have enough grunt, to record and copy a recording over the network.... i also hope that SageTV client accessing it as a server wouldn't require all 100meg of the network connection and so hopefully would therefore use less CPU...

I've got to get my card cooler in a fanless way first but I am keeping an eye out for this type of setup... can you help with these quick tests??

As for your problem... contacting VIA directly to ask about accessing the decoding outside of the default dvd app may be a strategy to go on...

[mlar]

The hardware decoding in the EPIA does work very well. You need a codec that supports it though. I know that the PowerDVD codec does, and the codec that comes with the PVR-250 (InterVideo WinDVD codec), but you need to change some registry settings for the WinDVD one to use acceleration. There is information available in the forums, just search for it.

CPU usage when decoding 720x480, 29.97fps, is about 30-40% when using hardware acceleration on an EPIA-M9000, I haven't tried it without.

You can't compare the C3 CPU to an Athlon XP. First of all, the XP 2100 does not run at 2.1GHz, second, clock speed has nothing to do with chip performance.. If you need something to compare the 933MHz C3 to, I think something in the area of a PII-300 PII-400 or something would be in the right ballpark. The C3 has a very weak FPU, and does not have SSE. On the other hand, it uses much less power. For people in California (like me!) the difference in power consumption can convert to a 10 dollar a month difference on your PG&E bill. When I initially started pursuing alternatives to the TiVo my main objective was to get a service, equal, but cheaper than the TiVo.. The TiVo costs 13 dollars a month (service charge), but uses very little power. The alternative, getting a MythTV box with a maxed out CPU, used so much more power that the service fee savings were cancelled out. Easy to forget that power costs money. SageTV on the other hand, with a C3 CPU and a PVR-250 is almost as efficient as the TiVo.. Not quite, but it's better than a power hungry Athlon XP.

[jimbobuk]

heh.. never realised the power consumption was THAT big a difference....

mlar... i know comparing an XP2100 isn't fair .... tho the 2100 is usually and indicator as to how it performs compared to equivelantly clocked pentiums...

as i said though i am not concerned about decoding at all though its good to know you CAN get the decoding working for watching...

could you test and tell me how much CPU SageTV uses on that system when just recording, and if possible when transfering files over a network.. if it has a network ?!? so that I can be sure it'll work ok...

you got the 933mhz one!? are your recordings generally glitch free, this seems to vary a lot by hardware be interesting to know how the C3 setup goes... Thanks

[Narflex]

I use an EPIA M9000 as my client HTPC. It runs SageTVClient AND SageRecorder in netowork encoding mode (this allows the PVR350 card in the EPIA box to be used as a secondary tuner to the server in the other room...you did know you could run multiple machines EACH with capture cards and coordinate them all together didn't you??)

Works Beautifully. I use the Hauppauge Intervideo Decoders with DXVA enabled through the reghack I talk about elsewhere on the forums.

[rrussell]

If I recall, having SageTV "just recording" and minimized only uses 5-10% of the CPU, if that. It's remarkably low. This is at the "2GB per hour - Great!" setting, and a 7200RPM Maxtor "Fry an egg on me" hard drive.

In the end, I am using the PowerDVD decoder. The Hauppauge intervideo non-css or whatever it's called would stutter a bit after initially hitting a new channel, and the picture quality just wasn't as good.

I'm seeing 40-50% load while simultaneously recording and decoding, which is a darned sight better than the 90%+ that WinTV would suck down.

Finally, I have the PVR I was aiming for at the beginning of all this! I'm so geeked!

R

[jimbobuk]

if sage recording is at an expected low of about 10% could you tell me what CPU is like when the box is recording and streaming to a remote sage client, or otherwise copying a file... with the usage being THAT low i imagine it will be fine.. tom's hardware put full transfer at 60% CPU.... sage streams shouldn't need full transfer but it'd be nice to know real results not just guesses

Narflex i didn't know multiple client/servers or whatever they then become... machines could all work together... i am going to dabble with networking soon... trying to get my card cool and working in another machine... still no luck so far

[Mark Lamutt]

I suppose you don't just want to put a fan blowing on it, do you? That'd be the easiest solution.

[stanger89]

Hey,

Couple of EPIA-M questions for all of you who might know.

First, how would you rate the picture quallity of the EPIA, maybe a ranking compared to a Radeon/Geforce. I'm currently running a R9500 but previously had a GF MX440. I like my Radeon but would also like a silent box in my "theater".

Second, has anyone tried the Sonic Decoders with the EPIA, I'm very happy with them and would like to use them if I could.

I imagine sage and a fanless (or almost) EPIA is an almost perfect combination. Hey, my Xbox would probably be the loudest thing if I got my tower out of that room.

Thanks,

Chad


Thanks,

[rrussell]

Originally posted by stanger89
First, how would you rate the picture quallity of the EPIA, maybe a ranking compared to a Radeon/Geforce. I'm currently running a R9500 but previously had a GF MX440. I like my Radeon but would also like a silent box in my "theater".

Hm, I can't compare it to anything, really, but with the latest vid & sound drivers from www.viaarena.com I am very happy with the quality. I can finally watch DVDs on this guy and it is as clear as my dedicated DVD player, plus the SPDIF coax output is working to send the audio to my receiver. Like I said - I finally have the unit I was aiming for in the beginning!

Second, has anyone tried the Sonic Decoders with the EPIA, I'm very happy with them and would like to use them if I could.

Hm, not I. What are these?

I imagine sage and a fanless (or almost) EPIA is an almost perfect combination. Hey, my Xbox would probably be the loudest thing if I got my tower out of that room.

Yeah - well, you could learn from my experience, then. I wanted a teeny tiny system with a HUGE hard drive and went shopping before I did much research. I ended up with the maxtor 120G drive on sale, and a Casetronics 2699R mini-itx case since at the time it was the only case that could hold all the hardware PLUS had a PCI slot for the PVR card.

One long story later, I have had to dremel holes in the case to run wires from an external ATX power supply into it, since the 2699R's DC-DC 12V 55W power supply wasn't enough to run a 7200RPM maxtor along with everything else. (The machine shut down when the HD would spin up after going into power-saving mode.)

Originally posted by Mark Lamutt
I suppose you don't just want to put a fan blowing on it, do you? That'd be the easiest solution.

And the heat generated by the HD meant exactly that - I replaced the two teeny 40mm case fans with these things called "Tornados" or similar. They moved plenty of air but, of course, sounded like little jet engines, so I found some OTHER little electronic gadgets that mount to the front of the fan and measure the temperature, adjusting the fan voltage up and down accordingly. In the end, you can hear it, even through the closed cabinet door, but it's not obnoxious.

Lesson: Use a notebook HD in a confined space with low power and/or sound requirements!

There were other hurdles, but in the end it was, well, functional. It was only when I found SageTV that the final piece - software to replace Hauppauge's sorry (but functional!) suite - fell into place.

Originally posted by stanger89
if sage recording is at an expected low of about 10% could you tell me what CPU is like when the box is recording and streaming to a remote sage client, or otherwise copying a file... with the usage being THAT low i imagine it will be fine.. tom's hardware put full transfer at 60% CPU.... sage streams shouldn't need full transfer but it'd be nice to know real results not just guesses

Unfortunately, I only have the one box near a cable outlet. I'm hoping to put together a client/server setup so I can get the huge hot hard drive out of there, remove the hacked-up power cables, and pull the noisy fans. This, however, is one more budget away.

I do have another machine on the 100-base-T network, and I have copied large files, but for whatever reason the network usage never got over 6% or so, and the CPU stayed very low. I think the OS is confused about the bandwidth available, or I've misconfigured something somewhere (the PVR is a WinXP box, the other a Win2K). I dunno. For now, it's all working satisfactorily.

HTH,
Rob

[stanger89]

russel,

Thanks for the feedback, actually my plan was to have just the EPIA board, maybe my M-Audio Revolution, and a cheap HDD in the EPIA and have it run SageClient and leave my 2.4G tower to take care of the SageTV Server and all the storage/noisy stuff (in a different room).

Sonic decoders, I must have spent too much time at the AVS forum expecting everyone to know what I mean. I'm talking about the Sonic Cineplayer decoders. I've got Cineplayer 1.5 and use it's decoders for all my mpeg/DVD watching. Which decoders are you using in Sage? And what software are you using to watch DVD's with?

Chad

[rrussell]

Ahhh, I see. I use PowerDVD for DVD watching, and for the SageTV decoder as well. It works more than passably, with the latest Epia drivers.

My understanding, tho, is that the M10000 with the new "Nehemiah" core is being released this week (or has been already?) and all the reviews I've read about it say that it absolutely EXCELS at mpeg2 and DVD playback - I'm planning on swapping my M9000 up as soon as I can, and I'd recommend finding one of these mobos if you have the chance. They're also supposed to be lower-power-consuming and have a quieter heatsink/CPU fan combo...

(drool)

[stanger89]

russell,

Actually the M10000 is what I figured I'd use if I do this. The reason I'm reluctant is because I'm worried that I won't be happy with the picture quality from the EPIA. Maybe the video card snobbery (no offense meant) is rubbing off on me but posts like this one make me wonder. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t=epia+quality

When I went from my GF4MX440 to my Radeon 9500 I noticed that color gradiants looked much smoother on my 9500. For example at the beginning of "The Mummy" the light shinning over the earth in the Universal logo had bands in the colors on my 440 but its perfectly smooth on my 9500.

Anyway, I appreciate the help, I could probably convince myself to go either way at this point. Probably shouldn't spend the money but a nice quiet box would be nice.

Chad

[rrussell]

Huh - I will go look for that sort of thing on my M9000.

I admit that the previous set of drivers for the CLE266 chipset, well, sucked. The difference between them and the current is night and day, and I might have been so delighted with just the improvement that I'm not seeing, er, the potential still left in the system

There's a good review of the M10000 here.

They liked the TV output and DVD playback, but they don't go into any detail about color banding like that.

I'm betting that guy who posted the comment you found was looking at the 1st generation M10000 boards, which weren't much more than OC'ed M9000s. ('Course, that doesn't mean he's wrong.) And I'm sure it's hard to beat ATI.

Ah well.

[SHS]

I just love they all say WE HAVE HARDWARE MPEG2 DECODING when it really dosen't ture have this.
Ture Hardware MPEG2/DVD encoding had 0% CPU usage dosen't use 3rdparty MPEG2 soft decoder drv.

[leetony]

Originally posted by Narflex
I use an EPIA M9000 as my client HTPC. It runs SageTVClient AND SageRecorder in netowork encoding mode (this allows the PVR350 card in the EPIA box to be used as a secondary tuner to the server in the other room...

I have a similar setup, a new EPIA 1ghz as a client & network encoder, but I'm having some problems. If I use the client and the recorder together, at the server side I get "...hardware stopped working, please quit Sage TV and restart computer..." (I forgot the exact wording of the warning). On the Sage Recorder side, I would see "Directshow filter not registered..." error. This error does NOT show up when server is not running. But once server start issuing commands (as it start to record shows), it would pop up. Sage Recorder is working because I can see it recording the showing up in the server, and when server is not running, I could see video & sound when I press preview (no preview and get error message once server is controlling it). The only part that I did not follow the instruction is that I use UMC instead of a mapped drive, i.e., \\server\c\.
Since I have a 100gb drive installed in the encoder computer, I've setup the Sage Recorder to record the shows locally using UMC format, \\masterroom\c\video, and at the server side, I've add the same directory, \\masterroom\c\video. It works, but something is causing that hardware stopped working message to popup a few minutes after the I use the client...

Any Suggestions? Sorry for the long post.
Thanks,

Tony

[mlar]

Not that it helps, but I have the same setup, EPIA 1GHz, PVR-350, and I can't run both SageRecorder and SageTVClient at the same time. I I run them separately, it works, but as soon as both run at the same time my whole machine crashes/locksup after some random amount of time. I suspect it's a different symptom of the same problem.

[insomniac]

Just a tidbit, but its EPIA related so...

After numerous approaches at fixing my EPIA lockup issues, I am finally fixed. It was memory...sigh

I tried 3 different brand chips, to no avail. I finally clocked down my memory to 100mhz + increasing latency etc and that seemed to do the trick.

If anyone has similar issues, let me know and Ill go into BIOS and write down the working settings .

I.

[pbarrette]

Hi all,

I know this thread is a bit old but.. I'm having some serious performance issues with my M-10000. I was wondering if any of you are using the EPIA in combination with the DVCR, or at least with PowerDVD.

If you are, and your performance is good, can you give me some info on your setup? Specifically:
1) What video driver are you using? The latest CLE266 driver doesn't work with the EPIA's and the newest EPIA specific driver is almost a year old now.
2) What codec are you using? Which version and any special tweaks?
3) Which OS and any special tweaks?

Also, does anyone know what this setting in Sage.properties does?
videoframe/dxva_mpeg_mode=0

I set it to "1" but Sage gives an error message stating that I have no hardware that supports DXVA, but I know for a fact that the drivers for the S3 graphics built into the EPIA M boards supports only DXVA and have no DirectShow filters.

Any clues?

Thanks,
pb

[rrussell]

I'm using the codec that came with the Cyberlink PowerDVD program, which was included with my DVD-ROM drive. It's the only one I've found that will really let you take advantage of the CLE266 decoder. The driver is whatever the latest download is from www.viavpsd.com.

WinXP, no tweaks.

Unfortunately, my machine is sorta DOA since I got ambitious and tried to upgrade the PSU, which led to a series of really stupid adventures and here I am starting from scratch. So.

HTH,
Rob